PhD - Poor Hungry Doctor - REALLY

by Uppili Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:31 pm

....Shows why Whites dont go for PhDs anymore.

Do you really want your kids to do PhD? Dont push them if they dont want to...bcz they just might be financially successful doing something else.

by Rishi Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:46 pm

Cyberike AngusMcP • 2 days ago −
We shouldn't buy American or worry about American values and work ethic either. Foreign nationals bring their values and culture into America, and we simply need to adapt.

As for myself, I am debating whether to accept Wiccan or Hindu as my religion. Christianity is just another failed American institution.

Mitchell ZB • 3 days ago
If companies want to hire Indians, they should go to India. If they want to hire Chinese, they should go to China.

Silicon Valley was built by Americans. So was Apple and Microsoft -- both founded at a time of historically low immigration. We really don't need floods of foreigners pushing up housing costs, crowding our schools and universities.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:11 pm

talk to medical doctors who have more than twenty five years of work behind them. quite a number of them sound tired and express dissatisfaction with their work and it's not just because the hours are long and the work is hard. i've heard a few of them say it's also because of the lack of outlet for doing creative work. yes money is important, but so also is the inherent human need to do creative work. i agree with you that it is not necessary for people to do ph.ds, but it is very important to have some measure of creative work output to feel fulfilled besides the obvious need to make a good living.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:21 pm

the people writing these articles should also offer some alternatives. if you take the position that training for STEM careers is not worth the effort, i.e. low reward to effort ratios, what careers have high reward to effort ratios combined with some measure of stability? i don't want to hear, 'start your own business'. most undergrads graduating college can't tell their butt from their elbow, let alone having an idea for starting a business. most people on the planet are not entrepreneurs, but nonetheless most people are able to be productive. so given that most people have to work for someone else, what does this author recommend instead of a STEM career?

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:31 pm

one more point -- this guy is taking a really short term view. countries like china and korea are putting enormous resources behind improving their academic institutions. thus far the US has been the go to place for getting a ph.d. because of the research culture and resources available at the academic institutions and national labs. but it is a mistake to assume that this will continue to be the case well into the future. granted it takes a long time to develop that kind of culture (culture IMO is the hardest to develop. equipment can be had if you just throw money at the problem), but there is no reason why it shouldn't given enough time. if we act on this guy's advice twenty, thirty years from now the US will be left far behind. he needs to get out more and visit research institutions in other countries.

by FluteHolder Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:42 pm

One of my friend who has PhD from a leading institute and couple of post doctoral research says he would not recommend doing phd for his kids. He cites the low pay. But I feel money cannot be equated for degrees. The high/fame you get on finding/researching something where you can put your name on it cannot be equated with money.

Katrorku Chendra Idamellam Chirappu:)

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:53 pm

FluteHolder wrote:One of my friend who has PhD from a leading institute and couple of post doctoral research says he would not recommend doing phd for his kids. He cites the low pay. But I feel money cannot be equated for degrees. The high/fame you get on finding/researching something where you can put your name on it cannot be equated with money.

Katrorku Chendra Idamellam Chirappu:)

the problem with this is not his fear that his children may not be able to make a good living. that's a fair thing to be worried about for any parent. the problem is his extrapolation from his own experience. i had a friend in college whose father was a ph.d. economist who never did very well in life. so he explicitly dissuaded my friend from entering the field although my friend had a lot of interest in the subject. anyway, he ended up at IIT, got his bachelors, did quite well (just ahead of me in class), and whenever he had a chance to take an elective took a math or economics elective. he scored phenomenally in his GRE and boldly applied to the top econ departments. many of them gladly accepted him, because in their eyes his strong math skills completely overrode the fact that he did not have a traditional econ background. in fact they liked it that he had an unconventional preparation for an econ ph.d. he eventually ended up as a professor in an ivy league school and has done very well for himself. not sure he would have done as well had he followed his dad's advice.

by Uppili Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:24 am

FluteHolder wrote:One of my friend who has PhD from a leading institute and couple of post doctoral research says he would not recommend doing phd for his kids. He cites the low pay. But I feel money cannot be equated for degrees. The high/fame you get on finding/researching something where you can put your name on it cannot be equated with money.

Katrorku Chendra Idamellam ~~Chirappu~~ Seruppu

**FIXED**

Max/Flutie:it is psychologically simple.

There are very few who do PhD for the sake of PhD. rest do it for all the wrong/ignorant reasons. When these folks drag on and on as Post Docs (after 2 post-doc stints they are academically dead and they should realize that) they lose their value and make 50 K and drag on. quickly they become disillusioned bcz they dont make much money. Helloooooooo....If they had gone for PhD for the sake of a PhD they would have known very well that their job market/finance will be below avg unless they do very well AT THE PhD level - bcz they would be competing against other PhDs. Even the ones who did well in their PhD become disenchanted for lack of money and start fantasizing about the kind of money that their doctor friends make.

Now for the Docs whining about job security, the shoe is on the other foot. These are the folks that went in dreaming of Stocks and once they achieved stocks they realize their emptiness and fantasize about the creative work of the PhDs and post-docs.

Yellam ikkarakku akkarai pachai.

by Maria S Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:53 am

Thiru. Uppili Ph.D, (Preachy Hot Dude!)

If the value of education is "only" based on - how much earning potential it can lead to, surely- it can be..well, will be disappointing.

If we measure the value of a person based on "only" their "formal" education (percieved intelligence/even IQ), that can be even more disappointing.

Frankly, most "formally" educated people these days are not happy or content..because of money they make/lack of repect and satisfaction they once thought will "automatically" come with academic degrees.

*Let me come to my point-inga:) I think a Ph.D is still valuable if a person thinks of it not just as a terminal degree- but just another step or milestone..finds/uses good opportunities and makes the best of it.

by Maria S Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:12 am

Had to look up some quotes!

“Formal education will make you a living; self-education will make you a fortune.”
-Jim Rohn

Of course..Emerson is always fab:

“The secret of education lies in respecting the pupil. It is not for you to choose what he shall know, what he shall do. It is chosen and foreordained and he only holds the key to his own secret.”

by Propagandhi711 Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:42 am

a friend of mine also did phd. so there.

by Guest Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:50 am

A cousin of mine did BE in chem engg from India. Then MS in chem from here. Then PhD from here. In something related to med field for which she had to work with docs in hospitals. She had first kid while doing that PhD, and second kid right after. Then guess what she did when the second one was a couple months old? Yes. She enrolled in a med school! I think she is doing residency now. And she is 33!

I bet with my sis that she will enrol in some social sciences degree next, or maybe computer science. I think she has found her calling in life. To be a student forever. Coz that's what she does best. She has never worked! Not a real job at least.

by Propagandhi711 Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:53 am

good morning vidya, it seems that your friend also did a phd. good on you (and her).

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