Ramdev supporters seek honorable exit strategy

by Guest Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:56 pm

With Baba Ramdev's fast entering a political blind alley amid signs of fading political interest as well as a cultivated aloofness on government's part, supporters of the yoga guru scrambled on Saturday to organize an escape route for him.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Baba-Ramdevs-supporters-seek-honourable-exit-route/articleshow/8818639.cms

by charvaka Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:05 pm

This just proves that your arguments regarding the need for a lathi-charge were all wrongheaded. The best strategy would have been to ignore the antics of this fool, rather that beat his supporters in the dead of the night.

by Guest Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:11 pm

charvaka wrote:This just proves that your arguments regarding the need for a lathi-charge were all wrongheaded. The best strategy would have been to ignore the antics of this fool, rather that beat his supporters in the dead of the night.

sitting in america, it is easy to become aloof to the ground realities. the authorities made the judgement that the atmosphere was becoming so tense that a 'single spark could have resulted in a conflagration' (chidambaram's words). we all know what happened in december 1992 and i would not like to see that incident repeated.

also, there would have been no force used if ramdev would have surrendered himself to the police which came to fetch him rather than trying to use his supporters as human shields.

by charvaka Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:15 pm

Rashmun wrote:the authorities made the judgement that the atmosphere was becoming so tense that a 'single spark could have resulted in a conflagration' (chidambaram's words).

Chidambaram was covering his ass after there was a lot of public anger against the government for its handling of the situation.

Rashmun wrote:sitting in america, it is easy to become aloof to the ground realities.

It is possible to become aloof to the ground realities while sitting in India, too. Particularly if you are prone to swallowing all the bullshit that government people feed you. For instance, you believed the line regarding Ramlila Maidan not being used for political protests!

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:18 pm

The downside to this whole episode is This Bearded baba has nullified Anna's agitation, and now buffoons like Digvijay have succeeded in diverting the attention.

What started has demanding accounts of the ministers has turned into seeking donors of Baba - as though the country was interested in baba's corruption.

This gives people like Rashmunullah Akbar and Maulana Merlotwala to abuse hindus and hinduism while supporting shamelessly the corruption in India.

Unfortunately all political parties are drowning in corruption and full of corrupt people, there is no party who can take the moral high ground.

Shameful situation.

by Guest Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:20 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:The downside to this whole episode is This Bearded baba has nullified Anna's agitation, and now buffoons like Digvijay have succeeded in diverting the attention.

What started has demanding accounts of the ministers has turned into seeking donors of Baba - as though the country was interested in baba's corruption.

This gives people like Rashmunullah Akbar and Maulana Merlotwala to abuse hindus and hinduism while supporting shamelessly the corruption in India.

Unfortunately all political parties are drowning in corruption and full of corrupt people, there is no party who can take the moral high ground.

Shameful situation.

We thank Mullah Uppiliullah Bounderullah Gounderullah Moronullah for sharing his moronic views with us.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:34 pm

Son: control your anger as you make no sense with your comments. I will take it as You should seek Psychiatric help or come to my meditation sessions.

by Guest Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:38 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Son: control your anger as you make no sense with your comments. I will take it as You should seek Psychiatric help or come to my meditation sessions.

get lost, Uppiliullah.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:42 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Son: control your anger as you make no sense with your comments. I will take it as You should seek Psychiatric help or come to my meditation sessions.

get lost, Uppiliullah.

Son: Dont waste your energy on fake Babas like Ramdev and Sri Sri Ravi Sankar. Akbar said so and Will Durant also said so.

Here take this Vibhuti Prasad, and become a new person.

by Merlot Daruwala Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:00 am

charvaka wrote:It is possible to become aloof to the ground realities while sitting in India, too. Particularly if you are prone to swallowing all the bullshit that government people feed you.

True. And yet, you deftly avoided Rashmun's point on the Babri demolition. That was supposed to be a peaceful protest too, and yet you would be the first to accuse PVN's government of inaction, ineptitude and even complicity for letting that one get out of hand.

And here, when the government proactively defused what was a potential tinderbox -- first through backroom negotiations and when those failed, with force -- you are outraged. Similar lathi-charges elsewhere apparently don't evoke any similar reaction. Inconsistencies much?

by charvaka Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:48 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:you deftly avoided Rashmun's point on the Babri demolition.

Deftly avoided? Really? What mosque were the protestors threatening to replace with a mandir that they were shouting they would "wahi banayenge" in this case? What 40-year old legal dispute did the crowd threaten to take into their own hands? What sensitive issue between religious communities was at the heart of the matter here? That Rashmun and you are even thinking Babri Masjid "kar seva" and anti-corruption rallies had anything to do with each other indicates how much your eyes are shaded because of your dislike of saffron-clad babas!

by charvaka Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:52 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:you are outraged.

I told you think before, and I will tell you this one more time. Your "obsevation" that I was outraged was out of place. I was merely surprised at your glee at Ramdev's antics, while ignoring the bigger issue of the government's violent crackdown on a peaceful crowd. You never responded to that, but a couple of days later, you make the same mistaken "observation." If you want to justify the government's actions in the midnight lathi-charge, there are a number of questions on the relevant thread you need to answer. https://such.forumotion.com/t1112p100-bwahahababa-ramdev-was-caught-running-away#10409

by Propagandhi711 Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:04 pm

soon we'll hear hypothetical questions from rashmun such as what if the congress govt had advanced knowledge that ramdev was planning a large scale murder/suicide ala jonestown so they had to resort to lathi charge. and merlot will ask orthogonal questions on why govment detractors have no answers to profound questions from rashmun.

by Propagandhi711 Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:06 pm

you know what's weird? the timestamp on the posts go backwards. is it timestamping local time everywhere?

by Merlot Daruwala Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:42 pm

charvaka wrote:I told you think before, and I will tell you this one more time. Your "obsevation" that I was outraged was out of place.

Moral indignation (arthaat outrage) is what I perceived in your posts in that thread. And as the observer here, I'm entitled to my observation.

charvaka wrote:I was merely surprised at your glee at Ramdev's antics, while ignoring the bigger issue of the government's violent crackdown on a peaceful crowd.

Yes, some of us are capable of laughing at some crossdressing kook's antics without getting weighed down by all the cruelty, inequity and sadness out there. If you feel obliged to shed tears and loudly lament every time a policeman swings his lathi and cracks a shin, feel free to do so (although I'm puzzled why that didn't happen when I cited you an even more recent episode of a 10,000-strong, peaceful crowd getting lathi charged).

charvaka wrote:If you want to justify the government's actions in the midnight lathi-charge..

I have no interest in doing so (and said so that in that thread itself). But I also don't agree with the characterization of a lathi-charge as some grave crime against humanity. Lathi-charges are commonplace in India and portraying it as some grave crime against humanity, on par with the Jallianwala Bagh massacre, is disingenuity at its worst.

by charvaka Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:52 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
charvaka wrote:If you want to justify the government's actions in the midnight lathi-charge..."
I have no interest in doing so

In that case, I suppose the words below escaped you inadvertently, just like the government unleashed the cops on the crowd without having any interest in doing so...

And here, when the government proactively defused what was a potential tinderbox

Breaking up this illegal gathering was a right call to take,
particularly after that joker signed up for an exit plan and then
reneged, proving that he could not be trusted to defuse the crisis.
Sending in the cops in the middle of the night ensured minimal use of
force. Any other time would have led to a worse outcome.

Nice job avoiding my earlier post, BTW (the one on the inappropriateness of the Babri Masjid analogy.)

Merlot Daruwala wrote:I also don't agree with the characterization of a lathi-charge as some grave crime against humanity.

Smooth move to deftly avoid the questions posed to you. I didn't call the lathi-charge a crime against humanity. I am merely raising questions about the legality of that action. Multiple posters here, and the Supreme Court of India, asked similar questions.

These are the questions you have steadfastly ignored. Here is another opportunity for you to answer them.

Did the cops have a warrant for the arrest?
After they arrested him, did they charge him with any crime?
Did they produce him before a magistrate? Or did they simply take him to another location and release him?
If
all that they wanted to do was take him to another location and release
him, could they not have simply allowed him to evade arrest and run
away? What was the need for lathi charge?
Who made the political decision to arrest Ramdev?

by Merlot Daruwala Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:12 pm

charvaka wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:you deftly avoided Rashmun's point on the Babri demolition.
Deftly avoided? Really? What mosque were the protestors threatening to replace with a mandir that they were shouting they would "wahi banayenge" in this case? What 40-year old legal dispute did the crowd threaten to take into their own hands? What sensitive issue between religious communities was at the heart of the matter here? That Rashmun and you are even thinking Babri Masjid "kar seva" and anti-corruption rallies had anything to do with each other indicates how much your eyes are shaded because of your dislike of saffron-clad babas!

Regardless of the sloganeering, the kar sevaks were peaceful to begin with, just as Bibi Ramdev's followers were. The organizers had assured the government that it was a peaceful protest (and subequent to the demolition, expressed shock and dismay, shedding tears at the worst day in India etc). At that time, the government took the organizers' words that they had it all under control and yet once the mob took over, there was no stopping them. This time around, the government never gave them the chance to turn into a mob. Proactive enforcement of law and order is what I say. Grave violation of fundamental rights is your opinion. *shrug*

by Merlot Daruwala Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:20 pm

charvaka wrote:In that case, I suppose the words below escaped you inadvertently

Not at all. I totally believe it was the right call to take to evict the large crowd before it turned restive, but I have no interest in justifying that to you. Hope that clarifies.

charvaka wrote:These are the questions you have steadfastly ignored. Here is another opportunity for you to answer them.

Really? Haha...you sir, take yourself a tad too seriously. Anyway, I have no idea and have no interest in finding out. Unlike you, I'm not overly exercised by lathi-charges (and neither, it appears, are you -- unless it happens to Bibi Ramdev's followers). As I mentioned earlier, lathi-charges of crowds are an everyday occurence in India. I'm pleased though that a mammoth gathering led by an unstable godman was safely defused without loss of life or property. With that, I'll end this discussion.

by charvaka Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:21 pm

And what disputed structure did Ramdev's "mob" threaten with destruction, had the government allowed the protest to continue?

by charvaka Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:23 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:Not at all. I totally believe it was the right call to take to evict the large crowd before it turned restive, but I have no interest in justifying that to you. Hope that clarifies.

Turned restive and did what? What exactly was the government trying to avoid?

charvaka wrote:I have no idea and have no interest in finding out.

As I suspected!

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