How we respond to the pain of others

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:16 am

As the death count at Uttarakhand climbs into the thousands or more realistically, into the tens of thousands (notwithstanding an official number of 1000), the horror stories that are slowly trickling out - of base behaviors exploiting others' misery - are good reason to introspect.

But first, a very well written account of the experiences of some of the survivors. Alongside the heartwarming accounts of human generosity and of course, the sheer dedication of our armed forces, there are also glimpses of the ugly Indian:

"....The temple town of Badrinath was spared. There was no electricity or phone services, but people sheltered in hotels and lodges. The temple committee, people said, locked the temples and ran away, though hotels set up free kitchens.

Thousands thronged the helipad, separated from the landing zone by a wire fence. People screamed and berated the rescuers—every one wanted to be evacuated first. The army struggled to establish control. Eventually they did, impassively, calmly. ....

The old and the ailing in Badrinath were abandoned. They sat in a line a few metres away from the main throng pushing to reach the choppers, watching the chaos with a blank gaze. An army medical officer walked among them, checking their vitals.

“Why are the old even here?” asked a plump man of about 30, red in the face with screaming, the top buttons of his shirt torn. “Who asked them to come to a place like this? If they have no regard for their own safety, why should we care?”
Rescuers tried to follow a strict order of evacuation—the ailing first, then the elderly, children and their mothers, then the rest.
In areas of extreme devastation, they followed this order. In Badrinath, rescuers had to deal with those fit enough to relentlessly muscle their way through."

And that brings me to the second article on the topic, by my favorite columnist, on the influence our religion has on how we react to the pain of others. Here's an excerpt:

"In 1900 Gujarat experienced a famine that is still known as Chhappaniyo, meaning Fifty-sixer (since it came in Vikram Samvat 1956).
The famine affected the entire Bombay Presidency.....The effect of this famine was recorded in the memoirs of Bhailalbhai Patel, founder of Vallabh Vidyanagar and the higher education movement. He described how Gujarati families raised money for food.

“In the middle of winter, they began to sell their quilts and mattresses, querns and mortar-pestles... When there was nothing left in the house to sell, they sold the beams and roofs and finally door and doorway.”

While people began to die of starvation, “the cities of Gujarat had money during the Chhapaniyo. The textile mills had started about half a century earlier and they were now well established. There were many wealthy people in the cities but it did not occur to any of them to step in to save people from dying.”

Patel wrote that “lakhs of rupees lay in the coffers of the Swaminarayan temples. The wealth in the Jain temples multiplied as interest gathered upon interest generated by the fortune there. Yet not one dharmaguru had the good sense to keep alive the starving people by generating work for them. The well-to-do lovers of the Hindu religion, who profess to believe in vasudhaiva kutumbakam did not think of extending a hand.

“Only foreign priests believing in a foreign religion felt compassion for the multitude. They begged for funds in Europe and America and used the money to rescue lakhs of people from the jaws of death without a thought to their caste or status. A majority of Gujarati Christians today are those who survived due to the mercy of these foreign padres.”

In their book, The Shaping of Modern Gujarat, which excerpts Patel’s writing, Achyut Yagnik and Suchitra Sheth say that from 500 in 1899, the number of Christians in Kheda, the Patel heartland, went up to 25,000 in 1902."

by Captain Bhankas Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:08 am

i am sure there are hundreds of untold stories of those scums who go to these places to loot and take advantage of those who are in need. every time there is something of this magnitude, such scums crowd the place looking for valuables.

when there were earthquakes in latur, some people first went to the collapsed jewelry stores.

/bojiesque comment

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:26 am

Yeah, looting at a time of natural calamity is a given. Even the US of A sees that from time to time.

But rape is a different thing altogether. Its hard to accept that people would sexually prey on exhausted, starving survivors shivering in the cold...

Equally shocking, the institutional apathy of temples which shut their doors on survivors.

by Propagandhi711 Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:16 am

hindu douches with their preoccupation with caste and practising obscure rituals cant feel the pain of others especially those they deemed "below" them in birth. in some ways they're no different than others from the monomaniacal religions but institutionally, hinduism is empathy challenged, with it's concepts of karma and multiple births.

by Guest Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:25 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:hindu douches with their preoccupation with caste and practising obscure rituals cant feel the pain of others especially those they deemed "below" them in birth. in some ways they're no different than others from the monomaniacal religions but institutionally, hinduism is empathy challenged, with it's concepts of karma and multiple births.

This has nothing to do with Hinduism. STOP blaming Hinduism unnecessarily without applying your mind. The phenomenon we witnessed in Badrinath and other places is nothing more than the 'Bystander Effect' which is a well known phenomenon that is taught in basic psychology courses in undergrad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

by iTEDx Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:21 am

Rashmun wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:hindu douches with their preoccupation with caste and practising obscure rituals cant feel the pain of others especially those they deemed "below" them in birth. in some ways they're no different than others from the monomaniacal religions but institutionally, hinduism is empathy challenged, with it's concepts of karma and multiple births.

This has nothing to do with Hinduism. STOP blaming Hinduism unnecessarily without applying your mind. The phenomenon we witnessed in Badrinath and other places is nothing more than the 'Bystander Effect' which is a well known phenomenon that is taught in basic psychology courses in undergrad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

I agree in part with both of you. It may be more to to with being an 'Indian' rather than a Hindu, people in say UK or USA would not show so much apathy. Even Indians (both Hindu or non-Hindus) living in the UK or US would be more empathetic. Why is that so? It is the effect of the country and culture.

However I do agree that this 'karma' theory is pretty screwed up and prevents those who believe in it from taking any responsibilities for the plight of their fellow humanbeings, that said, I am not sure if Muslims are any different despite what their religion teaches them. For this, don't look at Muslims in India, as they may help each other in the above circumstances not necessarily because their religion taught them this, but because they are a minority in this country and most minorities stick together in any country, but look at how citizens of say Pakistan behave- they equally apathetic of their fellow human beings despite being non-Hindu.

To add, the Christians in India are the other exception to the 'apathy being and Indian phenomenon' rule. They usually go out of their way to help everyone, including non-Christians.

by Jebediah Mburuburu Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:50 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:hindu douches with their preoccupation with caste and practising obscure rituals cant feel the pain of others especially those they deemed "below" them in birth. in some ways they're no different than others from the monomaniacal religions but institutionally, hinduism is empathy challenged, with it's concepts of karma and multiple births.

i am moved by your speech. does this also mean that you are abandoning mindless rituals, and won't force-feed your daughter any more "junnu?"

why do you blame the concepts of karma and multiple births for lack of empathy? shouldn't these very concepts encourage people to do good, in particular, help others in pain?

btw, "it's" (with the apostrophe) is an abbreviation of "it is," as in "it's time for lunch," so it's not "hinduism... with it's concepts of...," but "hinduism... with its [without any apostrophe] concepts of..."

moreover, it is "can't" (with the apostrophe), not "cant" (without any apostrophe).

by Guest Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:09 am

I think it has to do with indian (indian subcontinent) culture and upbringing, and nothing much to do with religion. The foreigners who helped during the gujarat famine did so because they are *foreigners*, not indian. Even an agnostic or atheist foreigner would've showed as much empathy/sympathy and tried to help.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:20 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

"....The temple town of Badrinath was spared. There was no electricity or phone services, but people sheltered in hotels and lodges. The temple committee, people said, locked the temples and ran away, though hotels set up free kitchens.

The temples of India are just another type of business. Sometimes ones wonders if even the priests believe in God - I am convinced they have long realized God is just a phrase to make money, just like the politicians use "development/service/progress" as buzzword to make money.

Although never religious I prefer small town old temples and feel the calm and serenity than many of these big famous ones.

by Propagandhi711 Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:22 am

Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:hindu douches with their preoccupation with caste and practising obscure rituals cant feel the pain of others especially those they deemed "below" them in birth. in some ways they're no different than others from the monomaniacal religions but institutionally, hinduism is empathy challenged, with it's concepts of karma and multiple births.
i am moved by your speech. does this also mean that you are abandoning mindless rituals, and won't force-feed your daughter any more "junnu?"

why do you blame the concepts of karma and multiple births for lack of empathy? shouldn't these very concepts encourage people to do good, in particular, help others in pain?

btw, "it's" (with the apostrophe) is an abbreviation of "it is," as in "it's time for lunch," so it's not "hinduism... with it's concepts of...," but "hinduism... with its [without any apostrophe] concepts of..."

moreover, it is "can't" (with the apostrophe), not "cant" (without any apostrophe).

a diaperdhari old douche that's estranged from his family shouldn't be talking about empathy. he should be correcting spelling mistakes that no one else cares about and eat soft foods while masturbating to pictures of young boys with chesticles.

by Propagandhi711 Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:26 am

Rashmun wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:hindu douches with their preoccupation with caste and practising obscure rituals cant feel the pain of others especially those they deemed "below" them in birth. in some ways they're no different than others from the monomaniacal religions but institutionally, hinduism is empathy challenged, with it's concepts of karma and multiple births.

This has nothing to do with Hinduism. STOP blaming Hinduism unnecessarily without applying your mind. The phenomenon we witnessed in Badrinath and other places is nothing more than the 'Bystander Effect' which is a well known phenomenon that is taught in basic psychology courses in undergrad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

why dont you spend some of that time to ponder over the inability of indians to mobilize funds for charity unless it's related to building a temple somewhere? I will preemptively assume you'll perform one of your gimmicks and attempt to lead the discussion into nowhereneverending land.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:32 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:

why dont you spend some of that time to ponder over the inability of indians to mobilize funds for charity unless it's related to building a temple somewhere? I will preemptively assume you'll perform one of your gimmicks and attempt to lead the discussion into nowhereneverending land.

somewhere it says that hindus shld build a temple to go to moksha. that is one reason why eeeewery king builded a grand temble in history.

and present day richies build small ones.

by pravalika nanda Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:57 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
"....The temple town of Badrinath was spared. There was no electricity or phone services, but people sheltered in hotels and lodges. The temple committee, people said, locked the temples and ran away, though hotels set up free kitchens.

** good, i'm happy that they had the good sense to secure the temple to prevent looting. my guess is that these priests don't really have the training to do much more than say a few mantras, read horoscopes and collect darshan. there are no educated people in temples unlike in a hotel, where you'll have people who've at least been to college and therefore are capable of organizing help to the victims.

“Why are the old even here?” asked a plump man of about 30, red in the face with screaming, the top buttons of his shirt torn. “Who asked them to come to a place like this? If they have no regard for their own safety, why should we care?”
Rescuers tried to follow a strict order of evacuation—the ailing first, then the elderly, children and their mothers, then the rest.
In areas of extreme devastation, they followed this order. In Badrinath, rescuers had to deal with those fit enough to relentlessly muscle their way through."

** merlot, have you heard of this fellow called Darwinwala?

And that brings me to the second article on the topic, by my favorite columnist, on the influence our religion has on how we react to the pain of others.

** As far as I know ethnic Indians do not have an organized religion. Hinduism is basically a set ideas that tells you how you can attain moksha. I don't understand why everyone here thinks that religion plays a role in the midst of these floods. The government is supposed to prepare for these emergencies and set aside relief supplies, and send the army to areas of devastation. I don't recall anyone talking about Christianity etc when Katrina happened. We saw hundreds of people atop rooftops waving for help as helicopter whizzed by. In America, we saw African americans (this happened in New Orleans) stranded along muddied waters, we heard about how the situation as inside the metrodome, how women were afraid to go the bathroooms cuz they were afraid they would get raped. You want to know what some white people said? They said that's what happens when there are a lot of black people around. Those white people were from that great and giving religion - Christianity.

** Do you know that when 9/11 happened, some of the first NYPD people to respond to the calls for help didn't realize what was going on, so they filled up their jeeps with goodies from the ground floor not knowing they'd never make it out. When NYPD jeeps were excavated from the rubble, they found gap clothes and perfumes inside these heroes' jeeps. Whyy? How did they get in there?

Here's an excerpt:

“Only foreign priests believing in a foreign religion felt compassion for the multitude.

** "compassion?" that's when you help for free not prey on the victims of natural and other calamities and them to convert. there is not a moment or man or calamity to waste for these padres.

In their book, The Shaping of Modern Gujarat, which excerpts Patel’s writing, Achyut Yagnik and Suchitra Sheth say that from 500 in 1899, the number of Christians in Kheda, the Patel heartland, went up to 25,000 in 1902."

** what we need is not for your heart to swell with love for these padres and encourage them and praise them where it not deserved but ensure that you have a government that knows how to act when these things happen. and this is the duty of the govt, which is why a govt will not ask you to convert. there is no room for religiosity in the wake of such events. we need decent people to help each other out.

by pravalika nanda Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:04 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:As the death count at Uttarakhand climbs into the thousands or more realistically, into the tens of thousands (notwithstanding an official number of 1000), the horror stories that are slowly trickling out - of base behaviors exploiting others' misery - are good reason to introspect.

** darling, cuz you're in india, you need to do a little more than introspect. and no, don't just throw your money around. take a few days off - maybe 3 - and offer your services to the Uttarakhand people. And try to do some work, not just talk about food and drink.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:24 pm

iTEDx wrote:

To add, the Christians in India are the other exception to the 'apathy being and Indian phenomenon' rule. They usually go out of their way to help everyone, including non-Christians.

Christian missionaries fish in troubled waters. They almost always go to disaster prone-area with food and pressure people to convert bad mouthing Hindu Gods and Govt and people.

This was documented very well when they went to help the Tsunami-hit areas. They do that ALL the time. Don't mistake their "mission to harvest souls" for "mission of mercy"

by southindian Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:05 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:As the death count at Uttarakhand climbs into the thousands or more realistically, into the tens of thousands (notwithstanding an official number of 1000), the horror stories that are slowly trickling out - of base behaviors exploiting others' misery - are good reason to introspect.

Avivek, how has been your introspection this far? Are you planning to take a trip north alone or ready to join a team already there such as this?

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-andhrapradesh/rss-help-for-uttarakhand-flood-victims/article4852079.ece

I can also give you a missonary loaded team as well, if that is your choice. Make a pick if introspection says, go help.

by Rishi Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:17 pm

Pravalika,

Thank you for bringing up Katrina and how the white Christians treated the Black Christians during that time. The White Christians who lived suburbs near New Orleans did not want to let into their towns any Black person who was left homeless in New Orleans.

http://www.thenation.com/article/katrinas-hidden-race-war#axzz2Xoq9TADr

Btw in 1899, the white American missionaries who went to places like India and China to convert the heathens were hardly bothered about the treatment of Negroes at home. In fact, they would not let any colored anywhere near their church.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:19 pm

southindian wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:As the death count at Uttarakhand climbs into the thousands or more realistically, into the tens of thousands (notwithstanding an official number of 1000), the horror stories that are slowly trickling out - of base behaviors exploiting others' misery - are good reason to introspect.

Avivek, how has been your introspection this far? Are you planning to take a trip north alone or ready to join a team already there such as this?

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-andhrapradesh/rss-help-for-uttarakhand-flood-victims/article4852079.ece

I can also give you a missonary loaded team as well, if that is your choice. Make a pick if introspection says, go help.

He sits in some kushy hotel and pontificates on the plight of the poor while eating Hyderabad Biriyani and Kabul Kabab.

He eats on behalf of all the poor. So kind of him.

by Captain Bhankas Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:37 am

Jebediah Mburuburu wrote: btw, "it's" (with the apostrophe) is an abbreviation of "it is," as in "it's time for lunch," so it's not "hinduism... with it's concepts of...," but "hinduism... with its [without any apostrophe] concepts of..."

moreover, it is "can't" (with the apostrophe), not "cant" (without any apostrophe).

How we respond to the pain of others Grammar_police_apostrophe_mug-rb21e5f12dfe6423faf68a1c25459ca96_x7jgr_8byvr_512

by Guest Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:45 am

Captain Bhankas wrote:
Jebediah Mburuburu wrote: btw, "it's" (with the apostrophe) is an abbreviation of "it is," as in "it's time for lunch," so it's not "hinduism... with it's concepts of...," but "hinduism... with its [without any apostrophe] concepts of..."

moreover, it is "can't" (with the apostrophe), not "cant" (without any apostrophe).

LMAO!

by goodcitizn Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:35 am

Captain Bhankas wrote:
Jebediah Mburuburu wrote: btw, "it's" (with the apostrophe) is an abbreviation of "it is," as in "it's time for lunch," so it's not "hinduism... with it's concepts of...," but "hinduism... with its [without any apostrophe] concepts of..."

moreover, it is "can't" (with the apostrophe), not "cant" (without any apostrophe).

LOL! Good one, Cap'n. Rumor has it that JM got tossed out of an optometrist's office for correcting spelling mistakes on an eyechart.

by Captain Bhankas Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:54 am

hahaha!

by Merlot Daruwala Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:44 am

pravalika nanda wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:As the death count at Uttarakhand climbs into the thousands or more realistically, into the tens of thousands (notwithstanding an official number of 1000), the horror stories that are slowly trickling out - of base behaviors exploiting others' misery - are good reason to introspect.

** darling, cuz you're in india, you need to do a little more than introspect. and no, don't just throw your money around. take a few days off - maybe 3 - and offer your services to the Uttarakhand people. And try to do some work, not just talk about food and drink.

Bwahahaha...Yeah right. I should now take lessons on compassion, generosity and how best to help the Uttarakhand flood victims from a woman who refused to give one dollar more to a delivery boy who brought her dinner on a rainy evening.

by pravalika nanda Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:34 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
pravalika nanda wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:As the death count at Uttarakhand climbs into the thousands or more realistically, into the tens of thousands (notwithstanding an official number of 1000), the horror stories that are slowly trickling out - of base behaviors exploiting others' misery - are good reason to introspect.

** darling, cuz you're in india, you need to do a little more than introspect. and no, don't just throw your money around. take a few days off - maybe 3 - and offer your services to the Uttarakhand people. And try to do some work, not just talk about food and drink.

Bwahahaha...Yeah right. I should now take lessons on compassion, generosity and how best to help the Uttarakhand flood victims from a woman who refused to give one dollar more to a delivery boy who brought her dinner on a rainy evening.

$$ we have several tipping-saints and tipping-sundaris here. perhaps you'll a cue from them and splash some money for the flood-victims. I trust you have the decency to not tell us how much that sum will be.

by Impedimenta Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:13 pm

pravalika nanda wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:
pravalika nanda wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:As the death count at Uttarakhand climbs into the thousands or more realistically, into the tens of thousands (notwithstanding an official number of 1000), the horror stories that are slowly trickling out - of base behaviors exploiting others' misery - are good reason to introspect.

** darling, cuz you're in india, you need to do a little more than introspect. and no, don't just throw your money around. take a few days off - maybe 3 - and offer your services to the Uttarakhand people. And try to do some work, not just talk about food and drink.

Bwahahaha...Yeah right. I should now take lessons on compassion, generosity and how best to help the Uttarakhand flood victims from a woman who refused to give one dollar more to a delivery boy who brought her dinner on a rainy evening.
$$ we have several tipping-saints and tipping-sundaris here. perhaps you'll a cue from them and splash some money for the flood-victims. I trust you have the decency to not tell us how much that sum will be.

I am giddy now. and i am around CPR certified folks. win win for me.

by Propagandhi711 Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:20 pm

Captain Bhankas wrote:
Jebediah Mburuburu wrote: btw, "it's" (with the apostrophe) is an abbreviation of "it is," as in "it's time for lunch," so it's not "hinduism... with it's concepts of...," but "hinduism... with its [without any apostrophe] concepts of..."

moreover, it is "can't" (with the apostrophe), not "cant" (without any apostrophe).

bwwwwaahahahaaa

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