Re: What should Seemandhra do?

by Idéfix Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:43 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:I've seen several incidents in DC area; 'T' folks protested on August 15th and at various Telugu cultural gatherings & boycotted several.

That is truly sad.

confuzzled dude wrote:I'm yet to see a single T-ite openly or wholeheartedly speak against 'T' state.

You should talk to my dad. He is opposed to bifurcation. He believes both states will get worse because of it.

confuzzled dude wrote:I don't buy into that SeemAndhra investments propaganda either I don't who started it but it's a collective effort of entire A.P, every region contributed for the development of Hyderabad.

+1. This I sincerely believe.

by Idéfix Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:47 pm

Actually I wonder if it might be a good idea to not separate the police cadres at all until the end of the transition period. Until Seemandhra has its government running out of its capital, Seemandhra's Home Minister and DGP would be based out of Hyderabad anyway. So why not run the force as one unit, and thereby address the legitimate fears of Andhra people in Hyderabad and Telangana people in coastal areas?

by confuzzled dude Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:51 pm

Idéfix wrote:Actually I wonder if it might be a good idea to not separate the police cadres at all until the end of the transition period. Until Seemandhra has its government running out of its capital, Seemandhra's Home Minister and DGP would be based out of Hyderabad anyway. So why not run the force as one unit, and thereby address the legitimate fears of Andhra people in Hyderabad and Telangana people in coastal areas?

Hahaha! I don't mean to offend you but you're thinking like Digvijay Singh. He said something along these lines by comparing with the handling of Delhi police force.

by Idéfix Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:53 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Idéfix wrote:Actually I wonder if it might be a good idea to not separate the police cadres at all until the end of the transition period. Until Seemandhra has its government running out of its capital, Seemandhra's Home Minister and DGP would be based out of Hyderabad anyway. So why not run the force as one unit, and thereby address the legitimate fears of Andhra people in Hyderabad and Telangana people in coastal areas?

Hahaha! I don't mean to offend you but you're thinking like Digvijay Singh. He said something along these lines by comparing with the handling of Delhi police force.

As awesome as Diggy Raja is, even he can't be an idiot all the time. Smile

by truthbetold Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:07 pm

Are you suggesting a cm will run a state without police being loyal to him/ her?

by Guest Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:12 pm

I am wondering what they are going to do about the high court judges with seemandhra origins. will they cease to be judges in the current high court (which will be T high court) and moved to the seemadhra region to be judges in the seemandhra high court?

by Idéfix Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:14 pm

truthbetold wrote:Are you suggesting a cm will run a state without police being loyal to him/ her?

I am just blowing some bubbles -- my idea may be entirely stupid, which is why it matches Diggy's. But my notion is that you have one DGP who reports to both Home Ministers. They will need to define the parameters of control. For example, if it involves law and order in Kadapa district, the Telangana Home Minsiter has no say in it. Vice versa deal with Adilabad district. But if it is about Greater Hyderabad or any other pre-identified area, then either Home Minister can order a police deployment. So if Seemandhra people are targeted in Hyderabad, the Seemandhra Home Minister is able to direct the police to protect them. I don't know, it may be recipe for confusion, but it may also work.

by Idéfix Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:15 pm

kinnera wrote:I am wondering what they are going to do about the high court judges with seemandhra origins. will they cease to be judges in the current high court (which will be T high court) and moved to the seemadhra region to be judges in the seemandhra high court?

I hope the judges get a choice to stay or move.

by smArtha Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:25 pm

kinnera wrote:A is the not the one seeking divorce. It is T who is trying to force A to do so. So why shld T get all the best things while A is advised to sacrifice? So you are telling A to a) compromise, sacrifice and shut up with whatever she got. b) Be at the mercy of T and butter up to him so that he will soften and throw some crumbles at her c) threatened that if she doesn't agree to all that T fancies, she's going to face dire consequences from T.

No court will agree to this kind of one sided divorce.

Wow the states get a gender classification now :-). In 1956, according to Nehru, it was T that is the 'innocent bride' and A the 'cunning groom'. When did this 'role reversal' happen?

by Guest Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:33 pm

Idéfix wrote:
kinnera wrote:I am wondering what they are going to do about the high court judges with seemandhra origins. will they cease to be judges in the current high court (which will be T high court) and moved to the seemadhra region to be judges in the seemandhra high court?
I hope the judges get a choice to stay or move.

see....that's the problem. there's no certainty. no planning. No one knows what's going to happen. There's utter confusion.

by Idéfix Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:35 pm

smArtha wrote:
kinnera wrote:A is the not the one seeking divorce. It is T who is trying to force A to do so. So why shld T get all the best things while A is advised to sacrifice? So you are telling A to a) compromise, sacrifice and shut up with whatever she got. b) Be at the mercy of T and butter up to him so that he will soften and throw some crumbles at her c) threatened that if she doesn't agree to all that T fancies, she's going to face dire consequences from T.

No court will agree to this kind of one sided divorce.

Wow the states get a gender classification now :-). In 1956, according to Nehru, it was T that is the 'innocent bride' and A the 'cunning groom'. When did this 'role reversal' happen?

Hahaha!

To address Kinnera's question: I don't see the deal on the table as T walking away with all the property at all. Both keep what they brought into the marriage. Over a ten-year transition period, both enjoy the improvements they made together to T's entertainment room. T is not asking for anything that A brought into the marriage -- although improvements were also made to A's side of the house with joint finances. As murky as divorces get, in my book this is a fair deal, and I would advise a friend or family member in A's position to go ahead and take it.

by Idéfix Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:38 pm

kinnera wrote:
Idéfix wrote:
kinnera wrote:I am wondering what they are going to do about the high court judges with seemandhra origins. will they cease to be judges in the current high court (which will be T high court) and moved to the seemadhra region to be judges in the seemandhra high court?
I hope the judges get a choice to stay or move.

see....that's the problem. there's no certainty. no planning. No one knows what's going to happen. There's utter confusion.

Yes, the center has mismanaged the process thoroughly. They had five years to prepare for this, but today Chidambaram read a statement that was cryptic as his statement five years ago. Removing some of this confusion and spelling out the details of who, what, when, where, and how of the negotiations will go a long way toward reducing these tensions.

by smArtha Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:41 pm

Idéfix wrote:I am just blowing some bubbles -- my idea may be entirely stupid, which is why it matches Diggy's. But my notion is that you have one DGP who reports to both Home Ministers. They will need to define the parameters of control. For example, if it involves law and order in Kadapa district, the Telangana Home Minsiter has no say in it. Vice versa deal with Adilabad district. But if it is about Greater Hyderabad or any other pre-identified area, then either Home Minister can order a police deployment. So if Seemandhra people are targeted in Hyderabad, the Seemandhra Home Minister is able to direct the police to protect them. I don't know, it may be recipe for confusion, but it may also work.

Yet another reason for the UT style admin for transition years. Hyderabad should be guaranteed to T-state at the end of transition. But during the transition the admin and police need to report into the Centre may be a Lt.Governor. Already, we are seeing the T-NGO and A-NGO issues and non-cooperation in the State. If police also gets divided - reporting into two CMs or Home Ministers it'll get really worse with ugly fights each day.

by Idéfix Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:47 pm

smArtha wrote:
Idéfix wrote:I am just blowing some bubbles -- my idea may be entirely stupid, which is why it matches Diggy's. But my notion is that you have one DGP who reports to both Home Ministers. They will need to define the parameters of control. For example, if it involves law and order in Kadapa district, the Telangana Home Minsiter has no say in it. Vice versa deal with Adilabad district. But if it is about Greater Hyderabad or any other pre-identified area, then either Home Minister can order a police deployment. So if Seemandhra people are targeted in Hyderabad, the Seemandhra Home Minister is able to direct the police to protect them. I don't know, it may be recipe for confusion, but it may also work.

Yet another reason for the UT style admin for transition years. Hyderabad should be guaranteed to T-state at the end of transition. But during the transition the admin and police need to report into the Centre may be a Lt.Governor. Already, we are seeing the T-NGO and A-NGO issues and non-cooperation in the State. If police also gets divided - reporting into two CMs or Home Ministers it'll get really worse with ugly fights each day.

But the guarantee is subject to the same concerns about lack of a stable center as your concern about enforcing any central guarantees to step in if Telangana fails to protect Andhra folks in Hyderabad. As I said before, Andhra may be able to get the act amended periodically to keep extending the UT status, and we end up with a Chandigarh situation!

by smArtha Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:02 pm

Idéfix wrote:But the guarantee is subject to the same concerns about lack of a stable center as your concern about enforcing any central guarantees to step in if Telangana fails to protect Andhra folks in Hyderabad. As I said before, Andhra may be able to get the act amended periodically to keep extending the UT status, and we end up with a Chandigarh situation!

Because having Hyderabad as a common capital is not very convenient for A, while their new Capital is coming up closer home. Besides, their share of revenues, from Hyd, will be progressively tapered down. Do you think they'll still have the same interest that they have now?

by Idéfix Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:17 pm

smArtha wrote:
Idéfix wrote:But the guarantee is subject to the same concerns about lack of a stable center as your concern about enforcing any central guarantees to step in if Telangana fails to protect Andhra folks in Hyderabad. As I said before, Andhra may be able to get the act amended periodically to keep extending the UT status, and we end up with a Chandigarh situation!

Because having Hyderabad as a common capital is not very convenient for A, while their new Capital is coming up closer home. Besides, their share of revenues, from Hyd, will be progressively tapered down. Do you think they'll still have the same interest that they have now?

I am not so sure SA will quickly settle on a new capital and start construction. Even if Hyderabad is not a UT in the interim, my guess is that SA will use the full ten years in Hyderabad, not because they want to but because it is difficult to reach a decision on a complicated question like this. If it's a UT, the temptation to postpone a difficult decision will be that much more. Secondly, if SA doesn't have a new capital in place, they can lobby the center to amend the terms of the transition, including the revenue-sharing deal and the duration of UT status. I think it is better to make a clean separation and work out ways to address security concerns.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:30 am

Please explain to me how SA can have Hyderabad as a Capital when Hyd is surrounded by Telengana for 100 miles?

Pakistan might demand Delhi as its Capital or joint capital.

by confuzzled dude Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:41 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Please explain to me how SA can have Hyderabad as a Capital when Hyd is surrounded by Telengana for 100 miles?

Pakistan might demand Delhi as its Capital or joint capital.

Did you miss the latest demand to merge Nalgonda & Mahaboobnagar with SeemAndhra.

by confuzzled dude Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:48 am

Idéfix wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:I'm yet to see a single T-ite openly or wholeheartedly speak against 'T' state.
You should talk to my dad. He is opposed to bifurcation. He believes both states will get worse because of it.

I should have phrased it better I meant the ones I came across in the US including the ones I know (friends) for 20 years. OTOH, my buddies back in India are much more pragmatic about it.

by Idéfix Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:54 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Idéfix wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:I'm yet to see a single T-ite openly or wholeheartedly speak against 'T' state.
You should talk to my dad. He is opposed to bifurcation. He believes both states will get worse because of it.

I should have phrased it better I meant the ones I came across in the US including the ones I know (friends) for 20 years. OTOH, my buddies back in India are much more pragmatic about it.

Yeah, distance makes it easier to reduce complex issues into simple black-and-white terms. A friend who went through a divorce told me: things seem a lot simpler and black-and-white to you guys on the outside, but it is complex and lots of shades of grey for the two of us. This is also the reason NRI Patriots tend to be more "patriotic" in their anti-Pakistan rhetoric than resident Indians who care for their lives and livelihoods.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:44 pm

Idéfix wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Idéfix wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:I'm yet to see a single T-ite openly or wholeheartedly speak against 'T' state.
You should talk to my dad. He is opposed to bifurcation. He believes both states will get worse because of it.

I should have phrased it better I meant the ones I came across in the US including the ones I know (friends) for 20 years. OTOH, my buddies back in India are much more pragmatic about it.
Yeah, distance makes it easier to reduce complex issues into simple black-and-white terms. A friend who went through a divorce told me: things seem a lot simpler and black-and-white to you guys on the outside, but it is complex and lots of shades of grey for the two of us. This is also the reason NRI Patriots tend to be more "patriotic" in their anti-Pakistan rhetoric than resident Indians who care for their lives and livelihoods.

May be true for those living in Siddipet, Mysore, Madurai and Tanjavur.

Your logic fails if you ask those living in Wagah, Surat, Leh, Kargil and Poonch.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:53 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Please explain to me how SA can have Hyderabad as a Capital when Hyd is surrounded by Telengana for 100 miles?

Pakistan might demand Delhi as its Capital or joint capital.

Did you miss the latest demand to merge Nalgonda & Mahaboobnagar with SeemAndhra.

I just decided to demand UppiliDesam covering Hyderabad and surrounding area.

This whole Telengana stuff appears like some "game" played by Politicians for public audience. I dont see or feel the severity, intensity, and sincerity that was in 1969. Even that Chenna reddy could be bought out.

Just drop the Telengana crap and stay as one piece. May be Telengana Autonomous Council.

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