Re: Economic mobility hasn’t changed in a half-century in America

by confuzzled dude Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:04 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:here is an interesting graphic:

more info here: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/04/how-we-pay-taxes-11-charts/255954/

Is it a mere coincidence that higher tax rates during the '90s aligned with economic growth

by Kris Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:34 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Cd
Once again your data contradicts your concern about income inequality.
Your data says income equality is not due to lack of wage growth but due to increased income for the top few % people. What is wrong with that group earning more as long as wages are increasing?. Having said that I do not agree that wages kept pace with inflation and wealth creation in the past few decades.
The above globalization talks about mfg imports only but rest of outsourcing is ignored. It jobs and jobs that created products outside Usa for markets outside Usa are not included.
50% of some of our major corporations (ex: coke) profits are earned outside Usa from activities outside Usa. Minimal us labor is involved. But rewards flow to investors from those companies. The income inequality is not happening at the cort of us labor.

That's right what's wrong with the top 1% owning nearly 50% of world's wealth, for that matter why should we cry about Indian politicians filling their coffers, in a way they are smart CEOs making profits for themselves.

>>>If businessmen make their money by swindling and fraud, they should be punished the same way that corrupt politicians should be. That aside, I am not sure why you are focused on income inequality. If the bottom is falling under for those on the lower end of the rung, that is a valid concern, quite simply because it does not become a first world society. That does need to be addressed in the name of decency. However, I am not sure why income differential between the bottom and the top rungs is not seen as having a significant correlation to individual effort in an open system, but rather seen as something that has to be engineered away through governmental policy. Should the litmus test not be whether there is a rising tide that lifts all boats (Kennedy's words, I think) instead of striving for a forced "equality"? I think TBT alludes to the same idea above.

i think the important point being glossed over is that government policy and legislation presently is rigged and favors the super wealthy. one example -- people often rant on about how high school teachers are not punished when they do a poor job and that teacher unions protect them. as an aside i happen to agree that teachers unions shouldn't have so much power. but what about CEO compensation packages? i don't know of any other profession where the differential in consequences between success and failure is so small! they win they make out like bandits. they lose they make out only slightly less like bandits. where does this leave the retail shareholders who have no power or say in CEO compensation?

>>> I am not in favor of governmental policy-rigging to enrich any particular segment and have serious problems with the revolving door between industry and government, which makes for an unholy alliance. On the matter of CEO compensations, this is a matter fro the stakeholders to decide. The relative lack of power among retail shareholders is a valid concern that needs to be sorted out (including voting with their feet), but it would be perilous to bring in the government with a top-down approach to sort things out. The cure will essentially be worse than the disease. On a related matter, I will go back and read the article on the top tax bracket- economic growth correlation. I have come across studies that have posited that there may be no correlation, but not one that shows a direct correlation between the two. That sounds counter-intuitive and I would like to see if the correlation was after adjusting for economic cycles and other variables such as war expenditures and the effect of one-time events such as 9/11.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:50 pm

Kris wrote:

>>> I am not in favor of governmental policy-rigging to enrich any particular segment and have serious problems with the revolving door between industry and government, which makes for an unholy alliance.

if tax policy that allows the mitt romneys of the world to pay an effective rate of 14% is not an example of governmental policy rigging, what is? when liberals decry that the playing field is rigged and uneven, this is what they mean. the automatic assumption is that liberals are commie and want to pump up the welfare state that transfers wealth. there's been tax policy influenced wealth transfer happening in the US for quite some decades for sure. some of us just disagree on the direction of the transfer.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:52 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:

Is it a mere coincidence that higher tax rates during the '90s aligned with economic growth

i don't know that's hard to say, but what is clear is that lower taxes alone have not been a catalyst for higher growth always.

by Propagandhi711 Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:53 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:here is an interesting graphic:

more info here: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/04/how-we-pay-taxes-11-charts/255954/

Is it a mere coincidence that higher tax rates during the '90s aligned with economic growth

again, that curious question ending with a period. also taught in confused partisan school of economics:corruption by YSR and economic wellbeing in AP went hand in hand

by confuzzled dude Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:13 am

Typical republican blather in an attempt to rebut the Harvard study. Starts with religion, blah blah blah then some more nonsense and concludes, as usual, with no substantial solution of their own.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2014/01/26/a-state-of-the-union-about-the-state-of-poverty/?hpid=z7

by Hellsangel Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:42 pm

I wonder what the home ownership rate is in most developed countries and how it compares to the US. I had read a recent article that said that home ownership is what ties down most people in the US from moving to where the jobs are. Maybe there is something to it.

I found the rates:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate

by confuzzled dude Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:52 pm

Do Americans Actually Care About Income Inequality? Hell Yeah They Do.

"We're fed up, we're not going to take it anymore, and we expect the government to do something about it.

That's what the majority of Americans think about income inequality, according to a new poll by Pew and USA Today. 69% of citizens polled thought that the government should do "a lot" or "some" to reduce staggering levels of inequity between the richest Americans and everyone else, while 67% of Americans thought the government has "a lot" or "some" capability to actually pull off this gargantuan tax."

by Hellsangel Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:56 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:Do Americans Actually Care About Income Inequality? Hell Yeah They Do.

"We're fed up, we're not going to take it anymore, and we expect the government to do something about it.

That's what the majority of Americans think about income inequality, according to a new poll by Pew and USA Today. 69% of citizens polled thought that the government should do "a lot" or "some" to reduce staggering levels of inequity between the richest Americans and everyone else, while 67% of Americans thought the government has "a lot" or "some" capability to actually pull off this gargantuan tax."

Yes! Viva Revolución!

by confuzzled dude Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:05 pm

So what do our repubs believe in?

a. Republicans think that the best way to help the poor is cutting taxes on the wealthy and corporations to encourage investment and getting them off of aid
OR
b. “What he [President Obama] misunderstands is that nine out of 10 businesses fail" - Rand Paul

by Hellsangel Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:54 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:So what do our repubs believe in?

a. Republicans think that the best way to help the poor is cutting taxes on the wealthy and corporations to encourage investment and getting them off of aid
OR
b. “What he [President Obama] misunderstands is that nine out of 10 businesses fail" - Rand Paul

Tut tut! So much anger!

by confuzzled dude Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:08 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:So what do our repubs believe in?

a. Republicans think that the best way to help the poor is cutting taxes on the wealthy and corporations to encourage investment and getting them off of aid
OR
b. “What he [President Obama] misunderstands is that nine out of 10 businesses fail" - Rand Paul

Tut tut! So much anger!

huh! by "our" repubs, I meant republicans in general, didn't mean our resident republicans. Half of my buddies are staunch republicans, we always have a go at each other but that doesn't impact our friendship.

by Hellsangel Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:15 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:So what do our repubs believe in?

a. Republicans think that the best way to help the poor is cutting taxes on the wealthy and corporations to encourage investment and getting them off of aid
OR
b. “What he [President Obama] misunderstands is that nine out of 10 businesses fail" - Rand Paul

Tut tut! So much anger!
huh! by "our" repubs, I meant republicans in general, didn't mean our resident republicans. Half of my buddies are staunch republicans, we always have a go at each other but that doesn't impact our friendship.

Republicans? From the IRA? I hear they often supply to the cause.

by confuzzled dude Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:27 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:So what do our repubs believe in?

a. Republicans think that the best way to help the poor is cutting taxes on the wealthy and corporations to encourage investment and getting them off of aid
OR
b. “What he [President Obama] misunderstands is that nine out of 10 businesses fail" - Rand Paul

Tut tut! So much anger!
huh! by "our" repubs, I meant republicans in general, didn't mean our resident republicans. Half of my buddies are staunch republicans, we always have a go at each other but that doesn't impact our friendship.

Republicans? From the IRA? I hear they often supply to the cause.

"DIG"ambara swami, Should I take this as a promotion or demotion, since IRA had been long been dormant?

by Hellsangel Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:34 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:So what do our repubs believe in?

a. Republicans think that the best way to help the poor is cutting taxes on the wealthy and corporations to encourage investment and getting them off of aid
OR
b. “What he [President Obama] misunderstands is that nine out of 10 businesses fail" - Rand Paul

Tut tut! So much anger!
huh! by "our" repubs, I meant republicans in general, didn't mean our resident republicans. Half of my buddies are staunch republicans, we always have a go at each other but that doesn't impact our friendship.

Republicans? From the IRA? I hear they often supply to the cause.
"DIG"ambara swami, Should I take this as a promotion or demotion, since IRA had been long been dormant?

Comrade CD, your kebab eating friends weren't the first to pioneer sleeper cells.

But I can understand why you would like to claim ignorance. Anyway to refresh your ~~knowledge~~ ignorance
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_organisations_known_as_the_Irish_Republican_Army

by confuzzled dude Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:45 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Tut tut! So much anger!
huh! by "our" repubs, I meant republicans in general, didn't mean our resident republicans. Half of my buddies are staunch republicans, we always have a go at each other but that doesn't impact our friendship.

Republicans? From the IRA? I hear they often supply to the cause.
"DIG"ambara swami, Should I take this as a promotion or demotion, since IRA had been long been dormant?

Comrade CD, your kebab eating friends weren't the first to pioneer sleeper cells.

But I can understand why you would like to claim ignorance. Anyway to refresh your ~~knowledge~~ ignorance
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_organisations_known_as_the_Irish_Republican_Army

ROFL Shall we look up for all the rants & claims made by Uppili too... to make them sound a bit legit.

by Hellsangel Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:48 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
huh! by "our" repubs, I meant republicans in general, didn't mean our resident republicans. Half of my buddies are staunch republicans, we always have a go at each other but that doesn't impact our friendship.

Republicans? From the IRA? I hear they often supply to the cause.
"DIG"ambara swami, Should I take this as a promotion or demotion, since IRA had been long been dormant?

Comrade CD, your kebab eating friends weren't the first to pioneer sleeper cells.

But I can understand why you would like to claim ignorance. Anyway to refresh your ~~knowledge~~ ignorance
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_organisations_known_as_the_Irish_Republican_Army
ROFL Shall we look up for all the rants & claims made by Uppili too... to make them sound a bit legit.

What does Uppili have to do with this? I was educating you on the fact that the IRA is very much around.

by confuzzled dude Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:58 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:

Republicans? From the IRA? I hear they often supply to the cause.
"DIG"ambara swami, Should I take this as a promotion or demotion, since IRA had been long been dormant?

Comrade CD, your kebab eating friends weren't the first to pioneer sleeper cells.

But I can understand why you would like to claim ignorance. Anyway to refresh your ~~knowledge~~ ignorance
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_organisations_known_as_the_Irish_Republican_Army
ROFL Shall we look up for all the rants & claims made by Uppili too... to make them sound a bit legit.
What does Uppili have to do with this? I was educating you on the fact that the IRA is very much around.

*sigh* Why am I even bothered such are republican tactics.

by Hellsangel Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:30 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
"DIG"ambara swami, Should I take this as a promotion or demotion, since IRA had been long been dormant?

Comrade CD, your kebab eating friends weren't the first to pioneer sleeper cells.

But I can understand why you would like to claim ignorance. Anyway to refresh your ~~knowledge~~ ignorance
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_organisations_known_as_the_Irish_Republican_Army
ROFL Shall we look up for all the rants & claims made by Uppili too... to make them sound a bit legit.
What does Uppili have to do with this? I was educating you on the fact that the IRA is very much around.
*sigh* Why am I even bothered such are republican tactics.

Yeah. Why don't you go distribute flyers at a mosque or something? There people will surely see your view point about the great Satan.

by Propagandhi711 Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:46 am

Comrade's anti American fervor is the strongest after a filling meal and intellectual stimulation at Reston kebab or moby dick with his 'victim' coworkers working at Fannie may that are card carrying Obama voters. Hint: they are frequent converts to Islam in jails and vote 98% for Obama (except when there isn't Obama to vote for, they vote sparingly) and just love social handout programs and loud rims.

by confuzzled dude Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:11 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:Comrade's anti American fervor is the strongest after a filling meal and intellectual stimulation at Reston kebab or moby dick with his 'victim' coworkers working at Fannie may that are card carrying Obama voters. Hint: they are frequent converts to Islam in jails and vote 98% for Obama (except when there isn't Obama to vote for, they vote sparingly) and just love social handout programs and loud rims.

Anti American fervor! if proliferating lies to sell arms & to help their friendly corporations by attacking countries around the world is being pro-american then I'd rather be anti american.

by Propagandhi711 Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:19 am

You are anti American, comrade..no if this, then that business

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