Extremists Book?

by confuzzled dude Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:19 pm

What percentage of 1.5 billion Muslims do you think fall into the extremist category that are clearly influenced by the book. Do you think the thought of converting an infidel to Islam or wiping him off the face of the earth is constantly on the back of an average muslim's mind i.e. when he is in an office meeting or travelling in a metro or shopping in a mall. If it is true then definitely, there is an issue with their holy book. Now, what do you think of those folks that murdered 100 million girls/women in last 50 years, they certainly have been influenced by their culture and by their cultural literature library.

-> Opened new thread per TBT's request.

by rawemotions Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:08 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:What percentage of 1.5 billion Muslims do you think fall into the extremist category that are clearly influenced by the book. Do you think the thought of converting an infidel to Islam or wiping him off the face of the earth is constantly on the back of an average muslim's mind i.e. when he is in an office meeting or travelling in a metro or shopping in a mall. If it is true then definitely, there is an issue with their holy book.
-> Opened new thread per TBT's request.

Even if the folks who are influenced it are not a majority, the problem is that because it is present in the book
the majority keeps silent.

a) A Big Bulk of them use it
b) Because the extremists verses are there in it, when their compatriots use those verses to indulge in Political Islamic acts
and persecute Non-Muslims, rest of them keep quiet unable OR unwilling to take these folks on.

Edmund Burke said, "all that is necessary for triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".

Even if there are good men, they are not able to take on a
cleric or his followers who quote these verses to commit crimes against Non-Muslim Humanity.

Root cause is that the extremist book is setup in such a way that the faith cannot be distinguished with acts
of persecution/ Political Islamism/ Islamic Supremacism prescribed in the book

by confuzzled dude Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:13 pm

rawemotions wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:What percentage of 1.5 billion Muslims do you think fall into the extremist category that are clearly influenced by the book. Do you think the thought of converting an infidel to Islam or wiping him off the face of the earth is constantly on the back of an average muslim's mind i.e. when he is in an office meeting or travelling in a metro or shopping in a mall. If it is true then definitely, there is an issue with their holy book.
-> Opened new thread per TBT's request.
Even if the folks who are influenced it are not a majority, the problem is that because it is present in the book
the majority keeps silent.

a) A Big Bulk of them use it
b) Because the extremists verses are there in it, when their compatriots use those verses to indulge in Political Islamic acts
and persecute Non-Muslims, rest of them keep quiet unable OR unwilling to take these folks on.

Edmund Burke said, "all that is necessary for triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".

Even if there are good men, they are not able to take on a
cleric or his followers who quote these verses to commit crimes against Non-Muslim Humanity.

Root cause is that the extremist book is setup in such a way that the faith cannot be distinguished with acts
of persecution/ Political Islamism/ Islamic Supremacism prescribed in the book

How can there be good men if all the book does is prescribe hatred & foment violence.

by rawemotions Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:47 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:What percentage of 1.5 billion Muslims do you think fall into the extremist category that are clearly influenced by the book. Do you think the thought of converting an infidel to Islam or wiping him off the face of the earth is constantly on the back of an average muslim's mind i.e. when he is in an office meeting or travelling in a metro or shopping in a mall. If it is true then definitely, there is an issue with their holy book.
-> Opened new thread per TBT's request.
Even if the folks who are influenced it are not a majority, the problem is that because it is present in the book
the majority keeps silent.

a) A Big Bulk of them use it
b) Because the extremists verses are there in it, when their compatriots use those verses to indulge in Political Islamic acts
and persecute Non-Muslims, rest of them keep quiet unable OR unwilling to take these folks on.

Edmund Burke said, "all that is necessary for triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".

Even if there are good men, they are not able to take on a
cleric or his followers who quote these verses to commit crimes against Non-Muslim Humanity.

Root cause is that the extremist book is setup in such a way that the faith cannot be distinguished with acts
of persecution/ Political Islamism/ Islamic Supremacism prescribed in the book
How can there be good men if all the book does is prescribe hatred & foment violence.

You first answer my question and let me answer yours. Dont divert. I have given an answer to your question.

by truthbetold Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:08 am

Cd
My request is you answer my question on holy book. You and all "secular" mavens key boards seem to have lost yes/no keys. Why? What is the cause of this hesitation?

On the questions you posed in this thread I will answer later in the evening. I do not know what you are talking about in the second part. I will answer the first part.

by Kris Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:38 am

confuzzled dude wrote:What percentage of 1.5 billion Muslims do you think fall into the extremist category that are clearly influenced by the book. Do you think the thought of converting an infidel to Islam or wiping him off the face of the earth is constantly on the back of an average muslim's mind i.e. when he is in an office meeting or travelling in a metro or shopping in a mall. If it is true then definitely, there is an issue with their holy book. Now, what do you think of those folks that murdered 100 million girls/women in last 50 years, they certainly have been influenced by their culture and by their cultural literature library.

-> Opened new thread per TBT's request.

>>>No, but this is a straw-men premise. The holy book angle needs to be explored even if 1% of this segment is telling you they are engaging in terrorism because of it and doing it frequently and in various theaters. If a free investigation is allowed, there could many possible causes: the 1% may be wrong or the other 99% has chosen to ignore the certain aspects of the book. If the latter is correct, the question arises as to why the 99% is not vocal in its denunciation of the 1%. Here again, there could be many answers: one could be fear to speak up, another could be something along the lines of 'well, they are wrong, but we won't take sides against our own co-religionists'. However, the answer does not lie in shutting down any discussion by shouting down anyone who brings up the issue or diverting the topic to other people's transgressions. Other people's wrongs need to be explored separately and judged on their own facts, but cannot be used as an excuse to stave off discussions on the issue at hand. There is a further point to this. When intellectually honest inquiry is suppressed by political correctness, you are actually setting the stage for long term polarization and a chasm that becomes more and more unbridgeable because of resentment. The end result is vilification of the 'other' in stereotypical terms without regard to facts or reality and you basically have a time bomb on your hands.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:47 am

truthbetold wrote:Cd
My request is you answer my question on holy book. You and all "secular" mavens key boards seem to have lost yes/no keys. Why? What is the cause of this hesitation?

On the questions you posed in this thread I will answer later in the evening. I do not know what you are talking about in the second part. I will answer the first part.

I wonder how they answer to the question on application/tax forms for the yes/no question:

Male female

I bet there will be "see attached" and a 2 page explanation why everyne is a male and female at the same time, giving percentage and citing graphs and references.

by confuzzled dude Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:41 pm

rawemotions wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:What percentage of 1.5 billion Muslims do you think fall into the extremist category that are clearly influenced by the book. Do you think the thought of converting an infidel to Islam or wiping him off the face of the earth is constantly on the back of an average muslim's mind i.e. when he is in an office meeting or travelling in a metro or shopping in a mall. If it is true then definitely, there is an issue with their holy book.
-> Opened new thread per TBT's request.
Even if the folks who are influenced it are not a majority, the problem is that because it is present in the book
the majority keeps silent.

a) A Big Bulk of them use it
b) Because the extremists verses are there in it, when their compatriots use those verses to indulge in Political Islamic acts
and persecute Non-Muslims, rest of them keep quiet unable OR unwilling to take these folks on.

Edmund Burke said, "all that is necessary for triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".

Even if there are good men, they are not able to take on a
cleric or his followers who quote these verses to commit crimes against Non-Muslim Humanity.

Root cause is that the extremist book is setup in such a way that the faith cannot be distinguished with acts
of persecution/ Political Islamism/ Islamic Supremacism prescribed in the book
How can there be good men if all the book does is prescribe hatred & foment violence.
You first answer my question and let me answer yours. Dont divert. I have given an answer to your question.

What was your question? If it was about ordinary muslim folk not taking on clerics, have you heard of protests in Iraq and in Nigeria? And what's average Indian Joe err.. Ram is doing to protest against violence, Maoist related or otherwise? All those bandhs didn't seem to have any impact (reducing naxlite violence). Is something in Hindu religious texts that is influencing and drivining them towards violence. You might be aware of the fact that the architect of sucide mission was born Hindu; ardent believer of Hindu god Kartikeya.

by confuzzled dude Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:48 pm

truthbetold wrote:Cd
My request is you answer my question on holy book. You and all "secular" mavens key boards seem to have lost yes/no keys. Why? What is the cause of this hesitation?

On the questions you posed in this thread I will answer later in the evening. I do not know what you are talking about in the second part. I will answer the first part.

What is it? that it's the sole reason for all the violence? If so, then my answer is a resounding NO, we wouldn't be having this debate otherwise.

by confuzzled dude Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:51 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Cd
My request is you answer my question on holy book. You and all "secular" mavens key boards seem to have lost yes/no keys. Why? What is the cause of this hesitation?

On the questions you posed in this thread I will answer later in the evening. I do not know what you are talking about in the second part. I will answer the first part.

I wonder how they answer to the question on application/tax forms for the yes/no question:

Male female

I bet there will be "see attached" and a 2 page explanation why everyne is a male and female at the same time, giving percentage and citing graphs and references.

Eh Right! everyone knows who is prone to multiple-paragraph-essay-format posts

by confuzzled dude Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:42 pm

Kris wrote:>>>No, but this is a straw-men premise. The holy book angle needs to be explored even if 1% of this segment is telling you they are engaging in terrorism because of it and doing it frequently and in various theaters. If a free investigation is allowed, there could many possible causes: the 1% may be wrong or the other 99% has chosen to ignore the certain aspects of the book. If the latter is correct, the question arises as to why the 99% is not vocal in its denunciation of the 1%. Here again, there could be many answers: one could be fear to speak up, another could be something along the lines of 'well, they are wrong, but we won't take sides against our own co-religionists'. However, the answer does not lie in shutting down any discussion by shouting down anyone who brings up the issue or diverting the topic to other people's transgressions. Other people's wrongs need to be explored separately and judged on their own facts, but cannot be used as an excuse to stave off discussions on the issue at hand. There is a further point to this. When intellectually honest inquiry is suppressed by political correctness, you are actually setting the stage for long term polarization and a chasm that becomes more and more unbridgeable because of resentment. The end result is vilification of the 'other' in stereotypical terms without regard to facts or reality and you basically have a time bomb on your hands.

What exactly is the intellectually honest world doing? other than lambasting ordinary muslim for acts committed by a few, are they reaching out to them and inviting them to find a solution to the probelm or just trying to shove the whole responsibility on them & their book. You do know that in PAK, a few volunteer groups (muslims) are reaching out to young folks that got brainwashed into jihad and developed a program to help them comeback.

by Kris Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:48 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:>>>No, but this is a straw-men premise. The holy book angle needs to be explored even if 1% of this segment is telling you they are engaging in terrorism because of it and doing it frequently and in various theaters. If a free investigation is allowed, there could many possible causes: the 1% may be wrong or the other 99% has chosen to ignore the certain aspects of the book. If the latter is correct, the question arises as to why the 99% is not vocal in its denunciation of the 1%. Here again, there could be many answers: one could be fear to speak up, another could be something along the lines of 'well, they are wrong, but we won't take sides against our own co-religionists'. However, the answer does not lie in shutting down any discussion by shouting down anyone who brings up the issue or diverting the topic to other people's transgressions. Other people's wrongs need to be explored separately and judged on their own facts, but cannot be used as an excuse to stave off discussions on the issue at hand. There is a further point to this. When intellectually honest inquiry is suppressed by political correctness, you are actually setting the stage for long term polarization and a chasm that becomes more and more unbridgeable because of resentment. The end result is vilification of the 'other' in stereotypical terms without regard to facts or reality and you basically have a time bomb on your hands.
What exactly is the intellectually honest world doing? other than lambasting ordinary muslim for acts committed by a few, are they reaching out to them and inviting them to find a solution to the probelm or just trying to shove the whole responsibility on them & their book. You do know that in PAK, a few volunteer groups (muslims) are reaching out to young folks that got brainwashed into jihad and developed a program to help them comeback.

>>>The intellectually honest world right now is being stifled from asking relevant questions. If and when that happens, the questioners are not obligated to sort out others' problems, any more than a prosecution team has the obligation to rehabilitate a defendant if found guilty. In fact, that would be more so in this case, as that could be grounds for a fresh round of bombings on the basis of 'infidels' intruding on internal matters. If there are groups in Pakistan trying to stave off jihadism, that is very courageous and an encouraging start. Hope it catches on.

by rawemotions Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:20 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:What percentage of 1.5 billion Muslims do you think fall into the extremist category that are clearly influenced by the book. Do you think the thought of converting an infidel to Islam or wiping him off the face of the earth is constantly on the back of an average muslim's mind i.e. when he is in an office meeting or travelling in a metro or shopping in a mall. If it is true then definitely, there is an issue with their holy book.
-> Opened new thread per TBT's request.
Even if the folks who are influenced it are not a majority, the problem is that because it is present in the book
the majority keeps silent.

a) A Big Bulk of them use it
b) Because the extremists verses are there in it, when their compatriots use those verses to indulge in Political Islamic acts
and persecute Non-Muslims, rest of them keep quiet unable OR unwilling to take these folks on.

Edmund Burke said, "all that is necessary for triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".

Even if there are good men, they are not able to take on a
cleric or his followers who quote these verses to commit crimes against Non-Muslim Humanity.

Root cause is that the extremist book is setup in such a way that the faith cannot be distinguished with acts
of persecution/ Political Islamism/ Islamic Supremacism prescribed in the book
How can there be good men if all the book does is prescribe hatred & foment violence.
You first answer my question and let me answer yours. Dont divert. I have given an answer to your question.
What was your question? If it was about ordinary muslim folk not taking on clerics, have you heard of protests in Iraq and in Nigeria? And what's average Indian Joe err.. Ram is doing to protest against violence, Maoist related or otherwise? All those bandhs didn't seem to have any impact (reducing naxlite violence). Is something in Hindu religious texts that is influencing and drivining them towards violence. You might be aware of the fact that the architect of sucide mission was born Hindu; ardent believer of Hindu god Kartikeya.

There was no question. Just a typo, but I have given an answer to your question. The Islamic folks are triggere sensitive to anything Islamic, they rise up in protest if somebody does anything to Quran. Hindus are not like that. So if the book of Islam is pure and clean, and if the zealots are doing something that is NOT sanctioned in the book but being done in the name of the book, I am sure the piecefuls (emphasis added) will rise. But they don't. You just help prove my point. The reason they do not rise, is because the inspiration to all these terrorists comes from chapters in the book, that is undeniable.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:27 pm

rawemotions wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
Even if the folks who are influenced it are not a majority, the problem is that because it is present in the book
the majority keeps silent.

a) A Big Bulk of them use it
b) Because the extremists verses are there in it, when their compatriots use those verses to indulge in Political Islamic acts
and persecute Non-Muslims, rest of them keep quiet unable OR unwilling to take these folks on.

Edmund Burke said, "all that is necessary for triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".

Even if there are good men, they are not able to take on a
cleric or his followers who quote these verses to commit crimes against Non-Muslim Humanity.

Root cause is that the extremist book is setup in such a way that the faith cannot be distinguished with acts
of persecution/ Political Islamism/ Islamic Supremacism prescribed in the book
How can there be good men if all the book does is prescribe hatred & foment violence.
You first answer my question and let me answer yours. Dont divert. I have given an answer to your question.
What was your question? If it was about ordinary muslim folk not taking on clerics, have you heard of protests in Iraq and in Nigeria? And what's average Indian Joe err.. Ram is doing to protest against violence, Maoist related or otherwise? All those bandhs didn't seem to have any impact (reducing naxlite violence). Is something in Hindu religious texts that is influencing and drivining them towards violence. You might be aware of the fact that the architect of sucide mission was born Hindu; ardent believer of Hindu god Kartikeya.
There was no question. Just a typo, but I have given an answer to your question. The Islamic folks are triggere sensitive to anything Islamic, they rise up in protest if somebody does anything to Quran. Hindus are not like that. So if the book of Islam is pure and clean, and if the zealots are doing something that is NOT sanctioned in the book but being done in the name of the book, I am sure the piecefuls (emphasis added) will rise. But they don't. You just help prove my point. The reason they do not rise, is because the inspiration to all these terrorists comes from chapters in the book, that is undeniable.

are you forgetting how m.f.hussein was hounded out of the country or how DU profs were physically threatened for teaching a.k.ramanujan's three hundred ramayanas essay?

by truthbetold Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:16 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Cd
My request is you answer my question on holy book. You and all "secular" mavens key boards seem to have lost yes/no keys. Why? What is the cause of this hesitation?

On the questions you posed in this thread I will answer later in the evening. I do not know what you are talking about in the second part. I will answer the first part.
What is it? that it's the sole reason for all the violence? If so, then my answer is a resounding NO, we wouldn't be having this debate otherwise.

https://such.forumotion.com/t22764-revealed-vs-human-creation#153452

Cd

Read the thread. My question is simple. None of the secular's are ready to state their opinion. Let us see if any one is ready to come out of closet.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:34 pm

truthbetold wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Cd
My request is you answer my question on holy book. You and all "secular" mavens key boards seem to have lost yes/no keys. Why? What is the cause of this hesitation?

On the questions you posed in this thread I will answer later in the evening. I do not know what you are talking about in the second part. I will answer the first part.
What is it? that it's the sole reason for all the violence? If so, then my answer is a resounding NO, we wouldn't be having this debate otherwise.
https://such.forumotion.com/t22764-revealed-vs-human-creation#153452

Cd

Read the thread. My question is simple. None of the secular's are ready to state their opinion. Let us see if any one is ready to come out of closet.

what's your big question? all religions and religious books were conjured up by human beings and sold to other human beings. do you even have to ask? isn't it obvious?

by truthbetold Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:56 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Cd
My request is you answer my question on holy book. You and all "secular" mavens key boards seem to have lost yes/no keys. Why? What is the cause of this hesitation?

On the questions you posed in this thread I will answer later in the evening. I do not know what you are talking about in the second part. I will answer the first part.
What is it? that it's the sole reason for all the violence? If so, then my answer is a resounding NO, we wouldn't be having this debate otherwise.
https://such.forumotion.com/t22764-revealed-vs-human-creation#153452

Cd

Read the thread. My question is simple. None of the secular's are ready to state their opinion. Let us see if any one is ready to come out of closet.

what's your big question? all religions and religious books were conjured up by human beings and sold to other human beings. do you even have to ask? isn't it obvious?

Obvious to whom?
Big question is your word. I said a simple question.

by confuzzled dude Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:27 pm

truthbetold wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Cd
My request is you answer my question on holy book. You and all "secular" mavens key boards seem to have lost yes/no keys. Why? What is the cause of this hesitation?

On the questions you posed in this thread I will answer later in the evening. I do not know what you are talking about in the second part. I will answer the first part.
What is it? that it's the sole reason for all the violence? If so, then my answer is a resounding NO, we wouldn't be having this debate otherwise.
https://such.forumotion.com/t22764-revealed-vs-human-creation#153452

Cd
Read the thread. My question is simple. None of the secular's are ready to state their opinion. Let us see if any one is ready to come out of closet.

I don't believe in any. If I did I'd be as biased as some of the posters here, wouldn't I? Who is hiding in closet and why?

by truthbetold Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:30 pm

My question is do you believe if any of them were revealed by god to human beings.

by confuzzled dude Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:36 pm

truthbetold wrote:My question is do you believe if any of them were revealed by god to human beings.

I see that you didn't challenge patriots, why such discrimination?

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:49 pm

truthbetold wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Cd
My request is you answer my question on holy book. You and all "secular" mavens key boards seem to have lost yes/no keys. Why? What is the cause of this hesitation?

On the questions you posed in this thread I will answer later in the evening. I do not know what you are talking about in the second part. I will answer the first part.
What is it? that it's the sole reason for all the violence? If so, then my answer is a resounding NO, we wouldn't be having this debate otherwise.
https://such.forumotion.com/t22764-revealed-vs-human-creation#153452

Cd

Read the thread. My question is simple. None of the secular's are ready to state their opinion. Let us see if any one is ready to come out of closet.

what's your big question? all religions and religious books were conjured up by human beings and sold to other human beings. do you even have to ask? isn't it obvious?
Obvious to whom?
Big question is your word. I said a simple question.

to me and to anyone who has had a modicum of exposure to the reasoning process. i am not sure exactly what your point is or where you are going, but why not indulge in some plain speaking so we don't have to guess what you are hinting at? instead of slow walking us to your epiphany, how about you cut to the chase?

by bw Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:35 pm

truthbetold wrote:My question is do you believe if any of them were revealed by god to human beings.

SRT revealed these books? when? where?

by confuzzled dude Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:48 pm

bw wrote:
truthbetold wrote:My question is do you believe if any of them were revealed by god to human beings.

SRT revealed these books? when? where?

Welcome to 2014; God == Lord Narendra.

by rawemotions Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:54 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
How can there be good men if all the book does is prescribe hatred & foment violence.
You first answer my question and let me answer yours. Dont divert. I have given an answer to your question.
What was your question? If it was about ordinary muslim folk not taking on clerics, have you heard of protests in Iraq and in Nigeria? And what's average Indian Joe err.. Ram is doing to protest against violence, Maoist related or otherwise? All those bandhs didn't seem to have any impact (reducing naxlite violence). Is something in Hindu religious texts that is influencing and drivining them towards violence. You might be aware of the fact that the architect of sucide mission was born Hindu; ardent believer of Hindu god Kartikeya.
There was no question. Just a typo, but I have given an answer to your question. The Islamic folks are triggere sensitive to anything Islamic, they rise up in protest if somebody does anything to Quran. Hindus are not like that. So if the book of Islam is pure and clean, and if the zealots are doing something that is NOT sanctioned in the book but being done in the name of the book, I am sure the piecefuls (emphasis added) will rise. But they don't. You just help prove my point. The reason they do not rise, is because the inspiration to all these terrorists comes from chapters in the book, that is undeniable.

are you forgetting how m.f.hussein was hounded out of the country or how DU profs were physically threatened for teaching a.k.ramanujan's three hundred ramayanas essay?

Your point is meaningless in this discussion.

The issue is that religious scriptures have explicit sections in them, that are being mis-used to inflict pain on others. Boko Haram OR AL Qaeda or Wahabi Ideology or Taliban. All are being done in the name of Islam., There are Muslim only roads in Saudi Arabia, there are countries where Muslims only can reside. There are many countries where Islamic laws are imposed on Non-muslims. All these are being done in the name of religion. It is not just one isolated incident. All being done in the name of their books. Physically violence on thousands affecting Millions. if it is a travesty of their beliefs why don't the silent majority stand up and fight ? They don't. The reason is that the Books themselves explicitly profess parts of this ideology and the Silent majority are NOT able to distinguish the vile aspects from the pure faith. None of these Muslims can openly debate a Taliban or Boko Haram that what they are doing is against the ideals of Islam. This extends to many political Islamic activites including EXPLICIT contempt of Hindus and other Non-Muslims.

So the root cause is the Political Islamist doctrine, that can be traced to the extremist Books, widely followed by the 1.5 Billion. There are sections that says becoming a Non Muslim is punishable by death and I do not understand how you can defend it.

by confuzzled dude Thu May 01, 2014 1:50 pm

"As for religious terrorism, that too is universal. Admittedly, some groups deploy terrorism as a tactic more at some times than others. Zionists in British Mandate Palestine were active terrorists in the 1940s, from a British point of view, and in the period 1965-1980, the FBI considered the Jewish Defense League among the most active US terrorist groups. (Members at one point plotted to assassinate Rep. Dareell Issa (R-CA) because of his Lebanese heritage.) Now that Jewish nationalsts are largely getting their way, terrorism has declined among them. But it would likely reemerge if they stopped getting their way. In fact, one of the arguments Israeli politicians give for allowing Israeli squatters to keep the Palestinian land in the West Bank that they have usurped is that attempting to move them back out would produce violence. I.e., the settlers not only actually terrorize the Palestinians, but they form a terrorism threat for Israel proper (as the late prime minister Yitzhak Rabin discovered).

Even more recently, it is difficult for me to see much of a difference between Tamerlan Tsarnaev and Baruch Goldstein, perpetrator of the Hebron massacre.

Or there was the cold-blooded bombing of the Ajmer shrine in India by Bhavesh Patel and a gang of Hindu nationalists. Chillingly, they were disturbed when a second bomb they had set did not go off, so that they did not wreak as much havoc as they would have liked. Ajmer is an ecumenical Sufi shrine also visited by Hindus, and these bigots wanted to stop such open-minded sharing of spiritual spaces because they hate Muslims.

Buddhists have committed a lot of terrorism and other violence as well. Many in the Zen orders in Japan supported militarism in the first half of the twentieth century, for which their leaders later apologized. And, you had Inoue Shiro’s assassination campaign in 1930s Japan. Nowadays militant Buddhist monks in Burma/ Myanmar are urging on an ethnic cleansing campaign against the Rohingya."

http://www.juancole.com/2013/04/terrorism-other-religions.html

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu May 01, 2014 1:53 pm

rawemotions wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
You first answer my question and let me answer yours. Dont divert. I have given an answer to your question.
What was your question? If it was about ordinary muslim folk not taking on clerics, have you heard of protests in Iraq and in Nigeria? And what's average Indian Joe err.. Ram is doing to protest against violence, Maoist related or otherwise? All those bandhs didn't seem to have any impact (reducing naxlite violence). Is something in Hindu religious texts that is influencing and drivining them towards violence. You might be aware of the fact that the architect of sucide mission was born Hindu; ardent believer of Hindu god Kartikeya.
There was no question. Just a typo, but I have given an answer to your question. The Islamic folks are triggere sensitive to anything Islamic, they rise up in protest if somebody does anything to Quran. Hindus are not like that. So if the book of Islam is pure and clean, and if the zealots are doing something that is NOT sanctioned in the book but being done in the name of the book, I am sure the piecefuls (emphasis added) will rise. But they don't. You just help prove my point. The reason they do not rise, is because the inspiration to all these terrorists comes from chapters in the book, that is undeniable.

are you forgetting how m.f.hussein was hounded out of the country or how DU profs were physically threatened for teaching a.k.ramanujan's three hundred ramayanas essay?
Your point is meaningless in this discussion.

not so fast. your thesis (see bolded) was that hindus are not like muslims when their religious books and symbols are tampered with or defaced. i gave you two instances, one of which (the AKR essay) is not even an insult, when saffron goons went all up in a huff. although i have never found MFH's offensive paintings in good taste, there is no reason why he should have been chased out of the country because of threats to his physical safety. that gives the lie to your claim that hindus are incapable of being offended by insults to their religion.

and this frequent claim by uppili and others that some of us remain silent when muslim goons threaten people's freedom of speech is patently untrue. i remember threads on the danish cartoons and the rushdie fukwa on sulekha and here very well.

by rawemotions Thu May 01, 2014 8:41 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
What was your question? If it was about ordinary muslim folk not taking on clerics, have you heard of protests in Iraq and in Nigeria? And what's average Indian Joe err.. Ram is doing to protest against violence, Maoist related or otherwise? All those bandhs didn't seem to have any impact (reducing naxlite violence). Is something in Hindu religious texts that is influencing and drivining them towards violence. You might be aware of the fact that the architect of sucide mission was born Hindu; ardent believer of Hindu god Kartikeya.
There was no question. Just a typo, but I have given an answer to your question. The Islamic folks are triggere sensitive to anything Islamic, they rise up in protest if somebody does anything to Quran. Hindus are not like that. So if the book of Islam is pure and clean, and if the zealots are doing something that is NOT sanctioned in the book but being done in the name of the book, I am sure the piecefuls (emphasis added) will rise. But they don't. You just help prove my point. The reason they do not rise, is because the inspiration to all these terrorists comes from chapters in the book, that is undeniable.

are you forgetting how m.f.hussein was hounded out of the country or how DU profs were physically threatened for teaching a.k.ramanujan's three hundred ramayanas essay?
Your point is meaningless in this discussion.

not so fast. your thesis (see bolded) was that hindus are not like muslims when their religious books and symbols are tampered with or defaced. i gave you two instances, one of which (the AKR essay) is not even an insult, when saffron goons went all up in a huff. although i have never found MFH's offensive paintings in good taste, there is no reason why he should have been chased out of the country because of threats to his physical safety. that gives the lie to your claim that hindus are incapable of being offended by insults to their religion.

and this frequent claim by uppili and others that some of us remain silent when muslim goons threaten people's freedom of speech is patently untrue. i remember threads on the danish cartoons and the rushdie fukwa on sulekha and here very well.

That is not thesis, and actually it probably does not have a direct connection to my main point. If you have questions on my main point, I am willing to discuss. If you are opening a new topic. I stand by what I said. Of 1 Billion you will find a few folks, who do anything. The point is when innocence of Muslims happened it was widespread and brought governments to its knees. For Hindus for everyone protesting, there is 50 other supporting including eminent intellectuals and thankfully none of them were hounded or hurt. These checks and balances is what keeps the system reformed. In Islam due to the Book,for 10000 protesting innocence of Muslims, we do not find a body of Muslims opposing them OR supporting free speech.

The fact is that you guys are supporting extremist book which has parts of it with doctrine that masquerades as faith but is political in nature and encourages violence on Non-Muslims. And because it is present in the Book, majority of Muslims are silent,when these vile acts happen (Boko Haram OR Taliban) so they are not able to take them on. The fact that the book has extremist sections (encouraging violence on non-believers) is an undeniable fact. The fact that it encourages death to those who leave the faith is an undeniable fact. The fact that it gives special titles to those who kill non-believers is an underiable fact. If you have issues with this, let us discuss. That is the root of all evil and Political Islamic Doctrine.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu May 01, 2014 10:07 pm

who are "you guys"? you seem to have serious reading comprehension and reasoning limitations. if i question your assertions about islam's exclusivity on craziness and give you counter examples, why does it makes me you jump to conclusions about my support for the quran? the fact is i know very little about any religion besides tamil hinduism, but you make it so easy to dismiss your silly unsupportable claims.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu May 01, 2014 10:52 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
There was no question. Just a typo, but I have given an answer to your question. The Islamic folks are triggere sensitive to anything Islamic, they rise up in protest if somebody does anything to Quran. Hindus are not like that. So if the book of Islam is pure and clean, and if the zealots are doing something that is NOT sanctioned in the book but being done in the name of the book, I am sure the piecefuls (emphasis added) will rise. But they don't. You just help prove my point. The reason they do not rise, is because the inspiration to all these terrorists comes from chapters in the book, that is undeniable.

are you forgetting how m.f.hussein was hounded out of the country or how DU profs were physically threatened for teaching a.k.ramanujan's three hundred ramayanas essay?

If hindus had not driven out MF Husain for drawing a nude Saraswati - did he ever draw a nude Mahamad to prove his "secularism?" - then hindus should have no reason to claim any self-respect and no one would have praised them as "great secular" people.

Secularism is to let each people practice their religion the way they want, and not put up with garbage heaped on them by other religionists. Isn't it why you never condemn muslims whenevr they protest/kill anything implying they are fully justified and dont deserve any criticism (perhaps need full support).

by Kris Thu May 01, 2014 11:57 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:"As for religious terrorism, that too is universal. Admittedly, some groups deploy terrorism as a tactic more at some times than others. Zionists in British Mandate Palestine were active terrorists in the 1940s, from a British point of view, and in the period 1965-1980, the FBI considered the Jewish Defense League among the most active US terrorist groups. (Members at one point plotted to assassinate Rep. Dareell Issa (R-CA) because of his Lebanese heritage.) Now that Jewish nationalsts are largely getting their way, terrorism has declined among them. But it would likely reemerge if they stopped getting their way. In fact, one of the arguments Israeli politicians give for allowing Israeli squatters to keep the Palestinian land in the West Bank that they have usurped is that attempting to move them back out would produce violence. I.e., the settlers not only actually terrorize the Palestinians, but they form a terrorism threat for Israel proper (as the late prime minister Yitzhak Rabin discovered).

Even more recently, it is difficult for me to see much of a difference between Tamerlan Tsarnaev and Baruch Goldstein, perpetrator of the Hebron massacre.

Or there was the cold-blooded bombing of the Ajmer shrine in India by Bhavesh Patel and a gang of Hindu nationalists. Chillingly, they were disturbed when a second bomb they had set did not go off, so that they did not wreak as much havoc as they would have liked. Ajmer is an ecumenical Sufi shrine also visited by Hindus, and these bigots wanted to stop such open-minded sharing of spiritual spaces because they hate Muslims.

Buddhists have committed a lot of terrorism and other violence as well. Many in the Zen orders in Japan supported militarism in the first half of the twentieth century, for which their leaders later apologized. And, you had Inoue Shiro’s assassination campaign in 1930s Japan. Nowadays militant Buddhist monks in Burma/ Myanmar are urging on an ethnic cleansing campaign against the Rohingya."

http://www.juancole.com/2013/04/terrorism-other-religions.html

>>>Read what Hitchens says about this Cole on his soft pedaling of Ahmadinejad's wanting to wipe Israel "off the map". This guy Cole is a certifiable apologist. And what is this nonsense about jewish nationalist groups returning to terrorism? And the gratuitous roping in of Hindus and Buddhists? If you want a reality check, go to your nearest airport security and ask them if they are losing sleep over Jewish or Hindu or Buddhist terrorists. Heck, why leave out Seventh Day Adventists? Throw them into the mix too.

by rawemotions Fri May 02, 2014 1:37 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:who are "you guys"? you seem to have serious reading comprehension and reasoning limitations. if i question your assertions about islam's exclusivity on craziness and give you counter examples, why does it makes me you jump to conclusions about my support for the quran? the fact is i know very little about any religion besides tamil hinduism, but you make it so easy to dismiss your silly unsupportable claims.

First you picked up some point and came swinging saying I was wrong. Now I have despite acknowledging that it was a little off topic, have given you a fitting response to that. Now you ignore that and jump on to some words and about your own inadequacies etc.. Is this your so called cut and run strategy, when faced with difficult arguments that you cannot counter, pick something else and divert the topic?

OK Mr expert in reading comprehension, tell me, why you are jumping into this topic, if you do not contest the main issue about extremist Book breeding a Political Islamist ideology. Moreover, if you do not know anything about this at all, perhaps you should stay away from topics you know very little about. My claims were quite well supported with specific instances of what the book has. If you cannot understand them, then perhaps you should be the one taking reading comprehension classes.

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