Re: Why Tamils should know sanskrit

by Guest Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:22 am

Maria S wrote:I guess "Tamils".."should" be told to do..what's good "for them!"

This "Tamil" speaks for herself and says- that it's such a total turn off!

I do understand the "religious" traditions and related sensitivities..to each her/his own..
Again speaking for myself..I would be outraged if someone tells me- I "should" pray, chant and read the Bible in Hebrew, Greek, Latin etc.
If "God" does not understand my Tamil..too bad.. God needs to learn some Tamil..and Heaven badly needs some Tamil courses and a lot more:)

If you *want* to learn Hebrew so that you can read and understand the bible in its original form and not the translated version, you should be free to do so. Right? If you want to celebrate Hebrew, you should be allowed to do so. Should you not? Do you want to hear, 'Tamil is a great language. You should not be celebrating Hebrew, but celebrating Tamil and only Tamil'?

It's not about Hindu religion. Sanskrit has seeped into very fabric of Indian culture all over india and you can't separate it out. There are ppl who want to learn it and celebrate it. Why shld the govt say 'no' to it?

Edit: You pray with your heart, not the words. Words are just words. Language doesn't matter when you pray. Still silence can be a prayer too.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:31 am

Kinnera wrote:
Maria S wrote:I guess "Tamils".."should" be told to do..what's good "for them!"

This "Tamil" speaks for herself and says- that it's such a total turn off!

I do understand the "religious" traditions and related sensitivities..to each her/his own..
Again speaking for myself..I would be outraged if someone tells me- I "should" pray, chant and read the Bible in Hebrew, Greek, Latin etc.
If "God" does not understand my Tamil..too bad.. God needs to learn some Tamil..and Heaven badly needs some Tamil courses and a lot more:)
If you *want* to learn Hebrew so that you can read and understand the bible in its original form and not the translated version, you should be free to do so. Right? If you want to celebrate Hebrew, you should be allowed to do so. Should you not? Do you want to hear, 'Tamil is a great language. You should not be celebrating Hebrew, but celebrating Tamil and only Tamil'?

It's not about Hindu religion. Sanskrit has seeped into very fabric of Indian culture all over india and you can't separate it out. There are ppl who want to learn it and celebrate it. Why shld the govt say 'no' to it?

Edit: You pray with your heart, not the words. Words are just words. Language doesn't matter when you pray. Still silence can be a prayer too.

Ok..you STILL don't get it.... Razz

JJ and MK did not ask Tamilans NOT to study hindi or Sanskrit - they never said...if the people studied them, they did not get penalized. hat you are saying is Pope ji forces everyone to read the bible only in Latin.

by Kayalvizhi Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:32 am

>> If you want to celebrate Hebrew, you should be allowed to do so. Should you not?

This is just WRONG. Maria can celebrate Hebrew week in her house./ What we object is Indian gov cewlebrating Sanskrit week in schools using out taxes. If some Sanskrit scholarts want to collect funds, rent a hall and celebrate Sanskrit week, I have no objection

by Maria S Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:35 am

Sure..one should learn "any language" by choice..

Which Govt? There is NO TN govt ban to learn any language by the population at large..looks like it was restricted to certain schools.

*The parents and students who attend these schools - should speak up and protest..even there..the opinions are divided.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/south/sanskrit-week-tamil-nadu-schools-unhappy-students-divided-560549

I love to pray with words too..esp. in Tamil. I have no interest in learning in Hebrew..and I love to celebrate Tamil..it's just me:)

Anyways..it has been great to read the discussions in majority tamil forums..as expected, the views are very different from what they are here.

We will have to disagree on this one Kinnera..I have nothing more to add, you can have the last word:)

Hello Kayal and U..nice to see you both kind of, sort of agree on this one!

by Kayalvizhi Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:42 am

>> Hello Kayal and U..nice to see you both kind of, sort of agree on this one!

Who is U?

by Guest Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:44 am

Maria S wrote:Sure..one should learn "any language" by choice..

Which Govt? There is NO TN govt ban to learn any language by the population at large..looks like it was restricted to certain schools.

*The parents and students who attend these schools - should speak up and protest..even there..the opinions are divided.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/south/sanskrit-week-tamil-nadu-schools-unhappy-students-divided-560549

I love to pray with words too..esp. in Tamil. I have no interest in learning in Hebrew..and I love to celebrate Tamil..it's just me:)

Anyways..it has been great to read the discussions in majority tamil forums..as expected, the views are very different from what they are here.

We will have to disagree on this one Kinnera..I have nothing more to add, you can have the last word:)

Hello Kayal and U..nice to see you both kind of, sort of agree on this one!

Ok..we agree to disagree. Smile

. We did so many times before too, but that doesn't change anything. Nothing personal. Hope you are having a wonderful day Smile

.

by indophile Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:55 am

I am surprised that there's so much grassroots opposition (which finds its way into this forum too) to celebrating a simple Sanskrit week in CBSE schools in TN. I participate in a Sanskrit group on the net, and an overwhelming majority of the members of that group are Tamilians and Maharashtrians with a sprinkling of members from other language speakers.

by Kayalvizhi Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:08 am

Don't you under5stand. It tells young mind's India is north (Sanskrit) and Hindi (Hindi is Sanskritised) and lowers their self esteem as a people (Tamil youth).

It is the purpose of Hindian controlled Indian gov. They did not do it for the fun of it. There is a motive.

How about celebrating Thirukural week? One of the greatest pieces of lit and philosophy. Why is it not in CBSE books.

Why is Southern history blacked out in CBSE books?

Why does GOI refuse to put Raja Raja cholan statue in the Thanjavur Big Temple parking lot?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:16 am

Kayalvizhi wrote:>> Hello Kayal and U..nice to see you both kind of, sort of agree on this one!

Who is U?

Maria is referring to your original handle...

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:22 am

indophile wrote:I am surprised that there's so much grassroots opposition (which finds its way into this forum too) to celebrating a simple Sanskrit week in CBSE schools in TN. I participate in a Sanskrit group on the net, and an overwhelming majority of the members of that group are Tamilians and Maharashtrians with a sprinkling of members from other language speakers.

The reason is the decision should have come from bottoms up and not top-down as in this case.

If a Sanskrit student Association at a school celebrates sanskrit week no one will object. but a Central govt to dictate to everyone is what causes the problem.

MK declared Jan 15 - Pongal day - as the Tamil New years day...Guess what..people ignored him and continue to celebrate it on Apr 14 per Hindu calendar. Bcz MK made a top-down decision.

We Tamilans are like that wonly..fiercly independent and democratic. I dont think we ever had a dictatorial king in our history and certainly not a barbaric one ever. Even our historic kings were pretty democractic.

by indophile Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:42 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
indophile wrote:I am surprised that there's so much grassroots opposition (which finds its way into this forum too) to celebrating a simple Sanskrit week in CBSE schools in TN. I participate in a Sanskrit group on the net, and an overwhelming majority of the members of that group are Tamilians and Maharashtrians with a sprinkling of members from other language speakers.

The reason is the decision should have come from bottoms up and not top-down as in this case.

If a Sanskrit student Association at a school celebrates sanskrit week no one will object. but a Central govt to dictate to everyone is what causes the problem.

MK declared Jan 15 - Pongal day - as the Tamil New years day...Guess what..people ignored him and continue to celebrate it on Apr 14 per Hindu calendar. Bcz MK made a top-down decision.

We Tamilans are like that wonly..fiercly independent and democratic. I dont think we ever had a dictatorial king in our history and certainly not a barbaric one ever. Even our historic kings were pretty democractic.

If only the opponents made it clear at the outset that it was not the Sanskrit language, nor its celebration in Central Board schools that they oppose, but they oppose those powers that be making a decision, however inconsequential it may be, without eliciting input from elected State politicians, it would not have given an opportunity to politicians to arouse these emotions.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:45 pm

indo -- i have no opinions on a group
of people organizing themselves to do something which doesn't harm anyone. but if you want to know why rashmun gets flak for some of the language related things he posts, read the title of this thread carefully.

by Guest Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:54 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:indo -- i have no opinions on a group
of people organizing themselves to do something which doesn't harm anyone. but if you want to know why rashmun gets flak for some of the language related things he posts, read the title of this thread carefully.

the title of the thread is based on the tweet i received from someone followed by the link which i have given in the OP. Why get excited if some tamilians make the case for sanskrit? Let us not shoot the messenger. Attack the message if u wish to.

by b_A Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:21 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:indo -- i have no opinions on a group
of people organizing themselves to do something which doesn't harm anyone. but if you want to know why rashmun gets flak for some of the language related things he posts, read the title of this thread carefully.

the title of the thread is based on the tweet i received from someone followed by the link which i have given in the OP. Why get excited if some tamilians make the case for sanskrit? Let us not shoot the messenger. Attack the message if u wish to.

A cop out as usual. What is new ?

by Seva Lamberdar Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:49 pm

Maria S wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

You guys STILL don't get it...do you ?

It is one thing if the tamilians took a sanskrit name or learnt hindi for whatever personal reason. But, to think that automatically made them a slave of hindi/sanskrit and mortgaged their mother, wife, family and everything to hindians is utter stupidity and childish thinking. That is what hindian like MullahYam and Al-Akbari assume.

An illiterate population that does not have even a basic capability to learn their own language should not expect others to learn their language.

LOL. The basic idea in learning a language is to educate oneself and to acquire knowledge by the learner and not for doing a favor to others.
Sanskrit seems to be the language of south Indians (including the TNers) as it is for those living in north India, as indicated by the Sanskrit names of most of the people in South India (especially the Hindus, excluding of course those Hindus who had taken up other religions in the past, Islam and Christianity etc.).

Oh Et Tu, dear Seva!

Of course it's not a favor to others..so "others" should not keep lecturing and "implying" that we - majority Tamils don't know any better...if we are happy, just leave us alone:)

I would never tell you and other Non-Tamils..which languages you "should know"..to acquire knowledge.

It does create- unnecessary divisions and problems.

Of course, dear Maria.

People in south India (including TN) having currently the Sanskrit names, and even others in TN etc. whose Hindu ancestors only a few centuries ago could have adopted other religions and taken non-Sanskrit names, should not be basing their decision to not learn Sanskrit or not celebrate the Sanskrit week because of a very flawed theory (AIT, propounding that Sanskrit had arrived in south India from the North with Aryans) or that the north Indians (in UP etc.) don't know their own language (Hindi) well or that the NIs don't know / learn the SI languages (Tamil etc.). If they don't want to learn Sanskrit or not celebrate the Sanskrit week for any reason, they are free to do so, but not use some silly excuse (as indicated above).

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:04 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

You guys STILL don't get it...do you ?

It is one thing if the tamilians took a sanskrit name or learnt hindi for whatever personal reason. But, to think that automatically made them a slave of hindi/sanskrit and mortgaged their mother, wife, family and everything to hindians is utter stupidity and childish thinking. That is what hindian like MullahYam and Al-Akbari assume.

An illiterate population that does not have even a basic capability to learn their own language should not expect others to learn their language.

LOL. The basic idea in learning a language is to educate oneself and to acquire knowledge by the learner and not for doing a favor to others.
Sanskrit seems to be the language of south Indians (including the TNers) as it is for those living in north India, as indicated by the Sanskrit names of most of the people in South India (especially the Hindus, excluding of course those Hindus who had taken up other religions in the past, Islam and Christianity etc.).

Well.. then Sanskrit may be called a Hindu language. many Tamilans have sanskritized names only bcz of their religion.

Let the center come out openly and say "Let is celebrate the Sanskrit - the soul of Hindus" Do you think anyone is that brave and honest?

It is true the UPwalas who clamor for hindi imposition bcz they SPEAK it. with only 30% or so can read/write hindi in UP (and we all know about the "literacy" test in India), the UPwalas should make an effort to learn Hindi or sanskrit FIRST. They should develop their capability. As you said we Tamilans are broad-minded enough and smart enough to go out and learn hindi for our own reasons - but not bcz the MP from UP tells us to.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:23 pm

i am interested in sanskrit because i am keenly interested in its relationship with other indo european languages. that connection blows my mind away.

i plan to explore sanskrit for these reasons rather than to satisfy some silly political agendas of hindians who ought to be focusing on improving literacy rated in their states.

by seven Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:27 pm

Tamilians are as sensitive about their language as this girl I know about her nose. You cannot talk about it or mention pakoda after talking about nose without getting her upset.
You just can't.

by Guest Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:34 pm

i have a question. is this the first year the CBSC school is celebrating sanskrit week in TN? if not, do we get protests every year? if yes (this is the first year of it), well, that sorta explains it (the protests part).

by indophile Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:38 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Well.. then Sanskrit may be called a Hindu language. many Tamilans have sanskritized names only bcz of their religion.

Not a Hindu or a Christian language. I thought the great Tamil poet Kamban referred to Sanskrit as the "language of the gods" (Deva-bhasha).

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:51 pm

indophile wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Well.. then Sanskrit may be called a Hindu language. many Tamilans have sanskritized names only bcz of their religion.
Not a Hindu or a Christian language. I thought the great Tamil poet Kamban referred to Sanskrit as the "language of the gods" (Deva-bhasha).

many devout tamilians also believe that of their own language. they believe it was given by lord shiva to agasthya. whether you believe it or not to most tamilians sanskrit and tamil have equal divine status. that core belief may be the reason for many of the conflicts you see. it is deeply ingrained and predates the dravidian movement. the dravidian movement is a convenient scapegoat, but it predates that.

by Guest Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:00 pm

Learning Sanskrit would be useful because it would allow one to read ideas about ontology, epistemology, and ethics as formulated by the traditional Indian philosophers across all of India, including Tamil Nadu.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:03 pm

learning sanskrit may be useful to understand the history of indo european languages.

by Impedimenta Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:19 pm

an Aiyoo raama inducing thread. araicha maavaye araichindu....kadavule.

by Guest Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:22 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:learning sanskrit may be useful to understand the history of indo european languages.

what about the fact that even in the Rig Veda we find words of dravidian origin? What this means is that learning sanskrit may be useful to understand the history and evolution of dravidian languages. Also, learning sanskrit would definitely be useful to understand the history and evolution of Avestan and other related languages.

by indophile Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:30 pm

Impedimenta wrote:an Aiyoo raama inducing thread. araicha maavaye araichindu....kadavule.

avargal araichuvttu sambar sapidukerar

by Guest Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:33 pm

even the Chinese want to learn Sanskrit:

http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday-review/history-and-culture/in-china-a-rediscovery-of-sanskrit/article2023696.ece

by Kayalvizhi Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:04 pm

go and celebrate sanskrit week in china oif they allow it but do not use my tax money

by bw Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:15 pm

Kayalvizhi wrote:go and celebrate sanskrit week in china oif they allow it but do not use my tax money

what "tax money" is being used here? the CBSE schools aren't free or government run. the individual schools are asked to come up with programs to celebrate sanskrit. could you show me some link where "tax money" is being spent on this? there is also a contest which is again run by CBSE.

if your grouse is that tamil isn't accorded the same status, i can somewhat understand that though it is hard to generate interest in tamil all across india. like it or not, people are more familiar with sanskrit than tamil.

by Kayalvizhi Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:49 pm

CBSE schools include central schools. They receive funds from my taxes.

It is not voluntary for private schools. They have to celebrate.

Celebrsating Sanskrits tells students that Sanskrit is India. What about Tamil? It is the oldest living lanmguage of South Asia. Why not celebrate it to balance South and North instead of everything north centered?

Why is CBSE history books allocating only a few pages to south? Why no reference to raja raja Cholan?

Wy is Valluvar statue in Kanyakumari not included in the Indian Tourism department tours while Gandhi memorial and Vivekanda statue are included?

To sum it up why north is glorified and south ignored?

by bw Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:05 pm

Kayalvizhi wrote:CBSE schools include central schools. They receive funds from my taxes.

It is not voluntary for private schools. They have to celebrate.

Celebrsating Sanskrits tells students that Sanskrit is India. What about Tamil? It is the oldest living lanmguage of South Asia. Why not celebrate it to balance South and North instead of everything north centered?

Why is CBSE history books allocating only a few pages to south? Why no reference to raja raja Cholan?

Wy is Valluvar statue in Kanyakumari not included in the Indian Tourism department tours while Gandhi memorial and Vivekanda statue are included?

To sum it up why north is glorified and south ignored?

let's stick to just the "tax money" for now. by "central schools", i guess you mean kendriya vidyalayas. students are required to study hindi or sanskrit there already and this one week of "sanskrit appreciation" isn't going to change anything by much. the concept of central schools is to provide a consistent education system for the children of the members/employees of the armed forces and central government.

most of the CBSE schools are not "central schools" and no tax money is being spent. as for the private CBSE schools not having a choice, again, please show me one instance where a school has protested this? other than the politicians who have no real lofty ideals but has simply spotted an opportunity for some rabble-rousing, no one else really cares. as i said before, ask the CBSE students if they have an issue with this and let them decide.

the rest of your post it is not related to your precious "tax money" being spent on this one week of sanskrit.

by Seva Lamberdar Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:00 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

You guys STILL don't get it...do you ?

It is one thing if the tamilians took a sanskrit name or learnt hindi for whatever personal reason. But, to think that automatically made them a slave of hindi/sanskrit and mortgaged their mother, wife, family and everything to hindians is utter stupidity and childish thinking. That is what hindian like MullahYam and Al-Akbari assume.

An illiterate population that does not have even a basic capability to learn their own language should not expect others to learn their language.

LOL. The basic idea in learning a language is to educate oneself and to acquire knowledge by the learner and not for doing a favor to others.
Sanskrit seems to be the language of south Indians (including the TNers) as it is for those living in north India, as indicated by the Sanskrit names of most of the people in South India (especially the Hindus, excluding of course those Hindus who had taken up other religions in the past, Islam and Christianity etc.).

Well.. then Sanskrit may be called a Hindu language. many Tamilans have sanskritized names only bcz of their religion.

Not quite the complete story.

Many Tamilians have been using the Sanskrtized names for a long time not just because of their religion, Hinduism for example. Even the Buddhists and Jains in TN and elsewhere in India have used mainly the Sanskitized names in the past. Moreover, most of the current Indian Muslims and Christians, who now use the westernized (Koranic and Biblical) names and call various regional languages (Tamil and Hindi / Urdu etc.) as their mother-tongues, had their Indians ancestors (Hindus mostly) long ago (before the religious conversions) using the Sanskritized names.

Note, while there were several local / regional languages all over India (north, south, east and west – Hindi and Tamil etc.) which were used colloquially by people in day to day activities and which underwent changes / transformations geographically and with time, Sanskrit in most places in India (not withstanding what the flawed AIT says that Sanskrit went to the south from the north with light colored ‘Aryans’) remained the language for official business and for retaining / transmitting important knowledge because of its capability to safeguard the message and the medium due to its strict rules of grammar etc. (http://www.geocities.ws/lamberdar/sanskrit_sruti.html)

Naturally, the custom / system of using / giving the Sanskritized names to people in India long ago arose as a byproduct of using Sanskrit in official business or due to the official considerations (naming people using the official language). It had less to do with the religious considerations.

Needless to say, Sanskrit was the language of south India, as it was also of north India. Some of the brilliant ancient Sanskrit scholars of Sanskrit in the South include Kamban and Adi Sankara et al., even though the AIT would want people to wrongly believe that their (Sankara's etc.) ancestors had gone from north India.

by Kayalvizhi Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:15 am

>> Some of the brilliant ancient Sanskrit scholars of Sanskrit in the South include Kamban and Adi Sankara et al.,

Annadurai was a great English orator and writer. So English is a Tamil Nadu language.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:18 am

Kayalvizhi wrote:>> Some of the brilliant ancient Sanskrit scholars of Sanskrit in the South include Kamban and Adi Sankara et al.,

Annadurai was a great English orator and writer. So English is a Tamil Nadu language.

LOL!

by Guest Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:26 am

Kayalvizhi wrote:>> Some of the brilliant ancient Sanskrit scholars of Sanskrit in the South include Kamban and Adi Sankara et al.,

Annadurai was a great English orator and writer. So English is a Tamil Nadu language.

The history of English spoken by tamil intellectuals goes back perhaps a 150 years or at most 200 years. However the history of sanskrit spoken and written by tamil intellectuals goes back a few thousand years.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:35 am

Rashmun wrote:
Kayalvizhi wrote:>> Some of the brilliant ancient Sanskrit scholars of Sanskrit in the South include Kamban and Adi Sankara et al.,

Annadurai was a great English orator and writer. So English is a Tamil Nadu language.

The history of English spoken by tamil intellectuals goes back perhaps a 150 years or at most 200 years. However the history of sanskrit spoken and written by tamil intellectuals goes back a few thousand years.

so?

by southindian Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:40 am

Kayalvizhi wrote:>> Some of the brilliant ancient Sanskrit scholars of Sanskrit in the South include Kamban and Adi Sankara et al.,

Annadurai was a great English orator and writer. So English is a Tamil Nadu language.

I hope you are kidding. If not then you are an idiot.

by Seva Lamberdar Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:18 pm

Kayalvizhi wrote:>> Some of the brilliant ancient Sanskrit scholars of Sanskrit in the South include Kamban and Adi Sankara et al.,

Annadurai was a great English orator and writer. So English is a Tamil Nadu language.

This wrong analogy -- comparing Annadurai's knowledge / oratory in English with that of Sankara and Kamban's knowledge / oratory in Sanskrit and then try to misconstrue that Sanskrit, like English, is not the native language of South India -- is really the result of SIs getting brainwashed since childhood in schools by the flawed AIT (Aryan Invasion Theory) that Sanskrit was brought to south India from outside (North) by the Aryans. (http://creative.sulekha.com/about-the-origins-of-vedas-and-sanskrit-including-aryan-invasion-theory_591513_blog)

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:52 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Well.. then Sanskrit may be called a Hindu language. many Tamilans have sanskritized names only bcz of their religion.

Not quite the complete story.

Many Tamilians have been using the Sanskrtized names for a long time not just because of their religion, Hinduism for example. Even the Buddhists and Jains in TN and elsewhere in India have used mainly the Sanskitized names in the past.

[size=16]

One thing people tend to forget is that much of the reading and learning aspects were done by Brahmins and many of hte so-called Intellectuals naturally were Brahmins. It is not surprising that these intellectuals were seeking knowledge from any language possible (like present day researchers search English, Chinese, Russian literature).

But, that does not make Sanskrit the language of the South. If at all, it existed in the South ONLY bcz of hinduism (jainism, Sikhism, and Budhism are Pseudo-hinduism religions). All otehr reasons are peripheral.

by Seva Lamberdar Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:03 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Well.. then Sanskrit may be called a Hindu language. many Tamilans have sanskritized names only bcz of their religion.

Not quite the complete story.

Many Tamilians have been using the Sanskrtized names for a long time not just because of their religion, Hinduism for example. Even the Buddhists and Jains in TN and elsewhere in India have used mainly the Sanskitized names in the past.

One thing people tend to forget is that much of the reading and learning aspects were done by Brahmins and many of hte so-called Intellectuals naturally were Brahmins. It is not surprising that these intellectuals were seeking knowledge from any language possible (like present day researchers search English, Chinese, Russian literature).

But, that does not make Sanskrit the language of the South. If at all, it existed in the South ONLY bcz of hinduism (jainism, Sikhism, and Budhism are Pseudo-hinduism religions). All otehr reasons are peripheral.

You should ask the opinions of Sanskrit scholars on the Sanskrit works (Gita Bhashya etc.) by Sankara.They will tell you that such mastery of the Sanskrit language by a South Indian at that time could not have occurred in isolation or as a single / rare case.

by Guest Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:05 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Well.. then Sanskrit may be called a Hindu language. many Tamilans have sanskritized names only bcz of their religion.

Not quite the complete story.

Many Tamilians have been using the Sanskrtized names for a long time not just because of their religion, Hinduism for example. Even the Buddhists and Jains in TN and elsewhere in India have used mainly the Sanskitized names in the past.

One thing people tend to forget is that much of the reading and learning aspects were done by Brahmins and many of hte so-called Intellectuals naturally were Brahmins. It is not surprising that these intellectuals were seeking knowledge from any language possible (like present day researchers search English, Chinese, Russian literature).

But, that does not make Sanskrit the language of the South. If at all, it existed in the South ONLY bcz of hinduism (jainism, Sikhism, and Budhism are Pseudo-hinduism religions). All otehr reasons are peripheral.

You should ask the opinions of Sanskrit scholars on the Sanskrit works (Gita Bhashya etc.) by Sankara.They will tell you that such mastery of the Sanskrit language by a South Indian at that time could not have occurred in isolation or as a single / rare case.

it has been said that:

For sheer charm in lucid sanskrit prose, none in Indian philosophy perhaps ever equals Sankara.

by Guest Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:17 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Kayalvizhi wrote:>> Some of the brilliant ancient Sanskrit scholars of Sanskrit in the South include Kamban and Adi Sankara et al.,

Annadurai was a great English orator and writer. So English is a Tamil Nadu language.

The history of English spoken by tamil intellectuals goes back perhaps a 150 years or at most 200 years. However the history of sanskrit spoken and written by tamil intellectuals goes back a few thousand years.

so?

there exists a tamil culture independent of the english language. however, there is no tamil culture worth its name which is independent of the sanskrit language. sanskrit has permeated every aspect of tamil culture as indeed it has permeated every aspect of the culture of India at large.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:23 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Kayalvizhi wrote:>> Some of the brilliant ancient Sanskrit scholars of Sanskrit in the South include Kamban and Adi Sankara et al.,

Annadurai was a great English orator and writer. So English is a Tamil Nadu language.

The history of English spoken by tamil intellectuals goes back perhaps a 150 years or at most 200 years. However the history of sanskrit spoken and written by tamil intellectuals goes back a few thousand years.

so?

there exists a tamil culture independent of the english language. however, there is no tamil culture worth its name which is independent of the sanskrit language. sanskrit has permeated every aspect of tamil culture as indeed it has permeated every aspect of the culture of India at large.

english is also having the same effect if you haven't realized. except english has had an effect greater than that of sanskrit because it is global. tamilians and other indians use so many english words in everyday speech. the preferred language of education for upper middle class indians is also english.

by Guest Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:25 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Kayalvizhi wrote:>> Some of the brilliant ancient Sanskrit scholars of Sanskrit in the South include Kamban and Adi Sankara et al.,

Annadurai was a great English orator and writer. So English is a Tamil Nadu language.

The history of English spoken by tamil intellectuals goes back perhaps a 150 years or at most 200 years. However the history of sanskrit spoken and written by tamil intellectuals goes back a few thousand years.

so?

there exists a tamil culture independent of the english language. however, there is no tamil culture worth its name which is independent of the sanskrit language. sanskrit has permeated every aspect of tamil culture as indeed it has permeated every aspect of the culture of India at large.

english is also having the same effect if you haven't realized. except english has had an effect greater than that of sanskrit because it is global. tamilians and other indians use so many english words in everyday speech. the preferred language of education for upper middle class indians is also english.

BN would have been around without english, Carnatic classical would have been around without english, the contributions of tamil philosophers to Indian philosophy would have been around without english, and Hinduism would have been around without english. but none of these would have been around without sanskrit.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:30 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

The history of English spoken by tamil intellectuals goes back perhaps a 150 years or at most 200 years. However the history of sanskrit spoken and written by tamil intellectuals goes back a few thousand years.

so?

there exists a tamil culture independent of the english language. however, there is no tamil culture worth its name which is independent of the sanskrit language. sanskrit has permeated every aspect of tamil culture as indeed it has permeated every aspect of the culture of India at large.

english is also having the same effect if you haven't realized. except english has had an effect greater than that of sanskrit because it is global. tamilians and other indians use so many english words in everyday speech. the preferred language of education for upper middle class indians is also english.

BN would have been around without english, Carnatic classical would have been around without english, the contributions of tamil philosophers to Indian philosophy would have been around without english, and Hinduism would have been around without english. but none of these would have been around without sanskrit.

we are back to the mulberry bush. i can give you things that existed outside of sanskrit and you'll refute them and i'll counter and so on. play with KV.

by Guest Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:34 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

so?

there exists a tamil culture independent of the english language. however, there is no tamil culture worth its name which is independent of the sanskrit language. sanskrit has permeated every aspect of tamil culture as indeed it has permeated every aspect of the culture of India at large.

english is also having the same effect if you haven't realized. except english has had an effect greater than that of sanskrit because it is global. tamilians and other indians use so many english words in everyday speech. the preferred language of education for upper middle class indians is also english.

BN would have been around without english, Carnatic classical would have been around without english, the contributions of tamil philosophers to Indian philosophy would have been around without english, and Hinduism would have been around without english. but none of these would have been around without sanskrit.

we are back to the mulberry bush. i can give you things that existed outside of sanskrit and you'll refute them and i'll counter and so on. play with KV.

please go ahead and give me the things that existed outside of sanskrit. i genuinely want to know and i am prepared to revise my opinion on this issue if you convince me.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:38 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

there exists a tamil culture independent of the english language. however, there is no tamil culture worth its name which is independent of the sanskrit language. sanskrit has permeated every aspect of tamil culture as indeed it has permeated every aspect of the culture of India at large.

english is also having the same effect if you haven't realized. except english has had an effect greater than that of sanskrit because it is global. tamilians and other indians use so many english words in everyday speech. the preferred language of education for upper middle class indians is also english.

BN would have been around without english, Carnatic classical would have been around without english, the contributions of tamil philosophers to Indian philosophy would have been around without english, and Hinduism would have been around without english. but none of these would have been around without sanskrit.

we are back to the mulberry bush. i can give you things that existed outside of sanskrit and you'll refute them and i'll counter and so on. play with KV.

please go ahead and give me the things that existed outside of sanskrit. i genuinely want to know and i am prepared to revise my opinion on this issue if you convince me.

i have no interest in convincing you of anything. we have had many such conversations in the past which have led nowhere. i have not changed my opinion that you are too agenda driven, my sometimes polite conversations with you notwithstanding. i may be passionate about my language to a fault, but i also seek after true knowledge. show some signs that you have shed your agenda and maybe we can have a real conversation.

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