smart(h)a brahmins

by truthbetold Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:52 am

Who are smarthas? What other type of brahmins are there? I read wiki. Based on that explanation all brahmins are smarthas. If not, why not?

For some reason I associate smartha to karnataka brahmins. Am I completely wrong or why did I get this impression?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:12 am

truthbetold wrote:Who are smarthas? What other type of brahmins are there? I read wiki. Based on that explanation all brahmins are smarthas. If not, why not?

For some reason I associate smartha to karnataka brahmins. Am I completely wrong or why did I get this impression?

Yes... it is right. of course...more here... . They are similar to Iyers although their "horns" are not as big or sharp.

Madhwas - the other sect traveled with Madhwacharya and ended up in Andhra and TN. Maharashtra has a large Madhwa population - the Desashtha and Deshpande group may be considered part of this sect. these two grouyps tend to speak both Kannada and Marathi.

by truthbetold Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:30 am

Uppili
What about ni brahmins? The misras?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:08 pm

truthbetold wrote:Uppili
What about ni brahmins? The misras?

That is a different specialty. i am specialized in Southie Castes.

by Kris Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:10 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Uppili
What about ni brahmins? The misras?

That is a different specialty. i am specialized in Southie Castes.

>>Are smart(h)as smarter? I thought I was one (no not the smart part, I meant the 'smartha' part).

by truthbetold Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:13 pm

Are all Andhra Brahmins smarthas? Are vaishnavaites smarthas? I probably should know but I am not sure.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:19 pm

truthbetold wrote:Are all Andhra Brahmins smarthas? Are vaishnavaites smarthas? I probably should know but I am not sure.

Smarthas are saivaites.

Here more on gult brahmins..

PP - admin should know more about these cashtus.

by swapna Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:22 pm

truthbetold wrote:Who are smarthas? What other type of brahmins are there? I read wiki. Based on that explanation all brahmins are smarthas. If not, why not?

For some reason I associate smartha to karnataka brahmins. Am I completely wrong or why did I get this impression?

is that the thought that you woke up with?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:33 pm

swapna wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Who are smarthas? What other type of brahmins are there? I read wiki. Based on that explanation all brahmins are smarthas. If not, why not?

For some reason I associate smartha to karnataka brahmins. Am I completely wrong or why did I get this impression?

is that the thought that you woke up with?

Is Fadnavis a konkan Christian ?

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:38 pm

No. He is a Marati Brahmin (as pious as a Syrian Christian - LOL). Munde is OBC.

I think Modi should choose Munde. She is young and seems to have moderate views on issues. Hopefully, whoever is the CM, will address corruption in real estate and irrigation projects. Also, slums in Mumbai are a big issue (40% of Mumbaikers live in slums!). Hopefully, someone will address this real issue as well.

by indophile Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:49 am

truthbetold wrote:Are all Andhra Brahmins smarthas? Are vaishnavaites smarthas? I probably should know but I am not sure.

Are all Andhra Brahmins smarthas? ---- No.
Are vaishnavaites smarthas? ----------- No.

There are three main philosophical/religious schools - Advaita (non-dual, i.e., God and you are not two different entities; Dvaita (God and you are two separate and distinct entities); and VishishaaTaadvaita (I believe it's some mixture of the first two, not sure however).

All Smathaas are Advaitins
All Madhwas are Dvaitins
All Vaishnavaites are VishisTaadvaitins.

Then there are other divisions within each one - Apastamba, Bodhayana, etc. (don't know the details, something related to way of life/rituals etc.0
And the divisions keep going - according to Veda (Rigvedis, Yajurvedis (Krishna and Shukla within them), Samavedis, Atharvanavedis)

Then come divisions based on occupations - (1) Niyogis (who served kings as their employees, and they are allowed only 3 of the 6 karmas of Brahmins. That is, they can learn vedas but can't teach them; they can donate to charity, but are allowed to accept donations; and they can perform religious rituals, but cannot serve as priests to help others perform them); (2) Vaidikis (in a pure sense, they are not allowed to serve anybody except God), and they are allowed to perform all six duties of a Brahmin learn/teach, give/take, and perform rituals on their own and for others.

Then come the region based divisions. Among Niyogis it's 6KN, Pratham Sakha, Nandavareeka, Lingadharya, Praknaati etc. Golconda Vyaparis are like Niyogis but they are Vaishnavaites (or Madhwas?). Among Vaidikis there are Dravidas (people who migrated form the Tanjavur area in TN), Velanaatis (from the south bank of Krishna), Venginaatis (area between Krishna and Godavari), Mulakanatis (from Rayalaseema, I believe), Kaasalnaatis (?), and so on.

Until about 2,3 generations ago, they followed these divisions in marriages strictly, but not so now, simply because they cannot afford to.
This is all I know.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:23 am

indophile wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Are all Andhra Brahmins smarthas? Are vaishnavaites smarthas? I probably should know but I am not sure.
Are all Andhra Brahmins smarthas? ---- No.
Are vaishnavaites smarthas? ----------- No.

There are three main philosophical/religious schools - Advaita (non-dual, i.e., God and you are not two different entities; Dvaita (God and you are two separate and distinct entities); and VishishaaTaadvaita (I believe it's some mixture of the first two, not sure however).

All Smathaas are Advaitins
All Madhwas are Dvaitins
All Vaishnavaites are VishisTaadvaitins.

Then there are other divisions within each one - Apastamba, Bodhayana, etc. (don't know the details, something related to way of life/rituals etc.0
And the divisions keep going - according to Veda (Rigvedis, Yajurvedis (Krishna and Shukla within them), Samavedis, Atharvanavedis)

Then come divisions based on occupations - (1) Niyogis (who served kings as their employees, and they are allowed only 3 of the 6 karmas of Brahmins. That is, they can learn vedas but can't teach them; they can donate to charity, but are allowed to accept donations; and they can perform religious rituals, but cannot serve as priests to help others perform them); (2) Vaidikis (in a pure sense, they are not allowed to serve anybody except God), and they are allowed to perform all six duties of a Brahmin learn/teach, give/take, and perform rituals on their own and for others.

Then come the region based divisions. Among Niyogis it's 6KN, Pratham Sakha, Nandavareeka, Lingadharya, Praknaati etc. Golconda Vyaparis are like Niyogis but they are Vaishnavaites (or Madhwas?). Among Vaidikis there are Dravidas (people who migrated form the Tanjavur area in TN), Velanaatis (from the south bank of Krishna), Venginaatis (area between Krishna and Godavari), Mulakanatis (from Rayalaseema, I believe), Kaasalnaatis (?), and so on.

Until about 2,3 generations ago, they followed these divisions in marriages strictly, but not so now, simply because they cannot afford to.
This is all I know.

Baudhayana and Apasthamba were from families that followed Krishna Yajurveda (and the associated Taittareeyam). Baudhayana was also a famous mathematician (Sulabha sutra). Apparently, both come from families that lived near Godavari river.

Smarthas in Andhra follow the dharma sastra of Apasthamba and Baudhayana (not Manu dharma sastra).

Among the upanishads that were considered important, Taittareeyam is one. Sankara wrote bhaashyam on it which became famous.

Taittareeyam is recited at important festivals in temples in AP. In fact, in Kanaka Durga temple, it is recited routinely. Siksha, Brahmananda, Brighu Vallis are recited at different times.

In our temple, Vedic school kids used to sing the "swaadhyaaya pravachana", in groups. This segment describes how a brahmin should live - sama, dama, souchyam, etc. It is beautiful to recite.

by Guest Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:47 am

indophile wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Are all Andhra Brahmins smarthas? Are vaishnavaites smarthas? I probably should know but I am not sure.
Are all Andhra Brahmins smarthas? ---- No.
Are vaishnavaites smarthas? ----------- No.

There are three main philosophical/religious schools - Advaita (non-dual, i.e., God and you are not two different entities; Dvaita (God and you are two separate and distinct entities); and VishishaaTaadvaita (I believe it's some mixture of the first two, not sure however).

All Smathaas are Advaitins
All Madhwas are Dvaitins
All Vaishnavaites are VishisTaadvaitins.

I was listening to Garikapati garu's lectures. He says Vishistaadvaita can't be Advaita, that it's nothing like advaita.

by indophile Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:11 am

Kinnera wrote:
indophile wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Are all Andhra Brahmins smarthas? Are vaishnavaites smarthas? I probably should know but I am not sure.
Are all Andhra Brahmins smarthas? ---- No.
Are vaishnavaites smarthas? ----------- No.

There are three main philosophical/religious schools - Advaita (non-dual, i.e., God and you are not two different entities; Dvaita (God and you are two separate and distinct entities); and VishishaaTaadvaita (I believe it's some mixture of the first two, not sure however).

All Smathaas are Advaitins
All Madhwas are Dvaitins
All Vaishnavaites are VishisTaadvaitins.
I was listening to Garikapati garu's lectures. He says Vishistaadvaita can't be Advaita, that it's nothing like advaita.

That stuff is beyond me. They include long discussions about ~~have~~ things like "markata-kishora-nyaaya" (monkey-baby-like, i.e., you cling to God like a monkey baby when you are transported, but clinging is your responsibility), "maarjara-kishora-nyaaya" (cat-baby-like, God holds you firmly like a mother cat holds her kitten to transport you ) etc. It's enough that Vaishnavaites wear a "111" marking on their foreheads, and Shaivaites wear a mathematical identity sign (three parallel cross lines) on their foreheads.

by Guest Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:18 am

indophile wrote:
Kinnera wrote:
indophile wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Are all Andhra Brahmins smarthas? Are vaishnavaites smarthas? I probably should know but I am not sure.
Are all Andhra Brahmins smarthas? ---- No.
Are vaishnavaites smarthas? ----------- No.

There are three main philosophical/religious schools - Advaita (non-dual, i.e., God and you are not two different entities; Dvaita (God and you are two separate and distinct entities); and VishishaaTaadvaita (I believe it's some mixture of the first two, not sure however).

All Smathaas are Advaitins
All Madhwas are Dvaitins
All Vaishnavaites are VishisTaadvaitins.
I was listening to Garikapati garu's lectures. He says Vishistaadvaita can't be Advaita, that it's nothing like advaita.
That stuff is beyond me. They include long discussions about have things like "markata-kishora-nyaaya" (monkey-baby-like, i.e., you cling to God like a monkey baby when you are transported, but clinging is your responsibility), "maarjara-kishora-nyaaya" (cat-baby-like, God holds you firmly like a mother cat holds her kitten to transport you ) etc. It's enough that Vaishnavaites wear a "111" marking on their foreheads, and Shaivaites wear a mathematical identity sign (three parallel cross lines) on their foreheads.

Ya, I heard about those two ways too.
in any case, debating different concepts is a waste of time. Sticking to one that rings true to us and going deep in it is better, imo.

by indophile Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:27 am

Kinnera wrote:
indophile wrote:
Kinnera wrote:
indophile wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Are all Andhra Brahmins smarthas? Are vaishnavaites smarthas? I probably should know but I am not sure.
Are all Andhra Brahmins smarthas? ---- No.
Are vaishnavaites smarthas? ----------- No.

There are three main philosophical/religious schools - Advaita (non-dual, i.e., God and you are not two different entities; Dvaita (God and you are two separate and distinct entities); and VishishaaTaadvaita (I believe it's some mixture of the first two, not sure however).

All Smathaas are Advaitins
All Madhwas are Dvaitins
All Vaishnavaites are VishisTaadvaitins.
I was listening to Garikapati garu's lectures. He says Vishistaadvaita can't be Advaita, that it's nothing like advaita.
That stuff is beyond me. They include long discussions about have things like "markata-kishora-nyaaya" (monkey-baby-like, i.e., you cling to God like a monkey baby when you are transported, but clinging is your responsibility), "maarjara-kishora-nyaaya" (cat-baby-like, God holds you firmly like a mother cat holds her kitten to transport you ) etc. It's enough that Vaishnavaites wear a "111" marking on their foreheads, and Shaivaites wear a mathematical identity sign (three parallel cross lines) on their foreheads.
Ya, I heard about those two ways too.
in any case, debating different concepts is a waste of time. Sticking to one that rings true to us and going deep in it is better, imo.

Yeah, Alexander Pope-ish - "what administered best is best, for forms of government let fools contest."
Adopting that - 'what concept works best for you is best, for differences in precepts let fools contest."

by truthbetold Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:56 am

Indo
Thanks for info.

A follow up question. Most of these Brahmin groups seem to located below vindya parvatam. What about the Brahmin sects around Ganga maidan?

by indophile Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:38 am

truthbetold wrote:Indo
Thanks for info.

A follow up question. Most of these Brahmin groups seem to located below vindya parvatam. What about the Brahmin sects around Ganga maidan?

There are all kinds divisions, south or north. Just go to any national level matrimonial site (bharatmatrimony.com, jeevansathi.com, etc.) and you can see all of them, and some more.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:16 am

indophile wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Indo
Thanks for info.

A follow up question. Most of these Brahmin groups seem to located below vindya parvatam. What about the Brahmin sects around Ganga maidan?

There are all kinds divisions, south or north. Just go to any national level matrimonial site (bharatmatrimony.com, jeevansathi.com, etc.) and you can see all of them, and some more.

Wait...what are YOU doing on those sites ????

by indophile Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:36 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
indophile wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Indo
Thanks for info.

A follow up question. Most of these Brahmin groups seem to located below vindya parvatam. What about the Brahmin sects around Ganga maidan?

There are all kinds divisions, south or north. Just go to any national level matrimonial site (bharatmatrimony.com, jeevansathi.com, etc.) and you can see all of them, and some more.

Wait...what are YOU doing on those sites ????

I used to check them for a niece a few years ago. She is happily married now to a guy her parents found for her the old fashioned way (no internet). Those sites are amazing. I am not sure how much of the info presented there by the prospective brides and grooms is true however.

by michelle2 Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:11 pm

indophile wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
indophile wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Indo
Thanks for info.

A follow up question. Most of these Brahmin groups seem to located below vindya parvatam. What about the Brahmin sects around Ganga maidan?

There are all kinds divisions, south or north. Just go to any national level matrimonial site (bharatmatrimony.com, jeevansathi.com, etc.) and you can see all of them, and some more.

Wait...what are YOU doing on those sites ????
I used to check them for a niece a few years ago. She is happily married now to a guy her parents found for her the old fashioned way (no internet). Those sites are amazing. I am not sure how much of the info presented there by the prospective brides and grooms is true however.

how do know that she's happy?

by indophile Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:25 pm

michelle2 wrote:
indophile wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
indophile wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Indo
Thanks for info.

A follow up question. Most of these Brahmin groups seem to located below vindya parvatam. What about the Brahmin sects around Ganga maidan?

There are all kinds divisions, south or north. Just go to any national level matrimonial site (bharatmatrimony.com, jeevansathi.com, etc.) and you can see all of them, and some more.

Wait...what are YOU doing on those sites ????
I used to check them for a niece a few years ago. She is happily married now to a guy her parents found for her the old fashioned way (no internet). Those sites are amazing. I am not sure how much of the info presented there by the prospective brides and grooms is true however.

how do know that she's happy?

No reason to doubt it.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:32 pm

michelle2 wrote:
indophile wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
indophile wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Indo
Thanks for info.

A follow up question. Most of these Brahmin groups seem to located below vindya parvatam. What about the Brahmin sects around Ganga maidan?

There are all kinds divisions, south or north. Just go to any national level matrimonial site (bharatmatrimony.com, jeevansathi.com, etc.) and you can see all of them, and some more.

Wait...what are YOU doing on those sites ????
I used to check them for a niece a few years ago. She is happily married now to a guy her parents found for her the old fashioned way (no internet). Those sites are amazing. I am not sure how much of the info presented there by the prospective brides and grooms is true however.

how do know that she's happy?

CONartist Doggy is asking similar questions - "how does Modi know that the people are happy"; "how does the media know that CONmen are unpopular with voters"........

Hmm..... Looks like FF has some sikular tendencies!

by truthbetold Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:32 pm

Indo
In this thread I am asking for an understanding of smartha? Ni Brahmins have divisions but those divisions seem to be different from Dvaita , advaita discussion.
The divisions based on regions, language and king's patronage are less interesting than those based on philosophical discussions.

by michelle2 Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:43 pm

truthbetold wrote:In this thread I am asking for an understanding of smartha?

sooth, did you end that sentence with a question mark because the word "asking" is a part of it?

by Seva Lamberdar Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:31 pm

indophile wrote:

There are three main philosophical/religious schools - Advaita (non-dual, i.e., God and you are not two different entities; Dvaita (God and you are two separate and distinct entities); and VishishaaTaadvaita (I believe it's some mixture of the first two, not sure however).

Advaita (non-dual, i.e., God and soul (not you) are not two different entities);

Dvaita (God and soul (not you) are two separate and distinct entities);

and VishishaaTaadvaita (God and soul are separate entities but they have the same characteristics, i.e. the soul has a separate identity only by virtue of God's mercy / will).

by truthbetold Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:15 pm

Sevaji
Who ni belongs to which group?

by Seva Lamberdar Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:12 am

truthbetold wrote:Sevaji
Who ni belongs to which group?

I haven't done that type of survey TBT.

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