Coffeehouse for desis
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu

4 posters

Go down

Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu Empty Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu

Post by Guest Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:45 pm

Few days back, i came across a Choliya Brahmin through my friend.  While casually interacting with him, there was a discussion about the sharp divide among different sects of brahmins.  In that he was saying that the Vadama brahmins treats them as untouchables, and will perform purification when the choliya brahmins entered their house.

This was very interesting to me, and as usual, i wanted to explore more on this.  I asked him more about this, and i am summarising what he explained to me.


The vadama brahmins are those brahmins who came from North long back, and they enjoyed more power in Chola kingdom than the choliya brahmins who already lived there. The Choliya brahmins were called as Tamil Brahmins.  There is no matrimonial alliance b/w the vadama and tamil brahmins, eventhough both are smarthas.  The vadama consider themselves as superior than choliya brahmins and wont allow them inside their houses. The religious rites for the deceased (like Thithi, etc) was attended mostly by the tamil brahmins, whereas the vadama do the more lucrative yaga and yagnyas for the royals.  Because of this, the choliya brahmins, who do such low end jobs are NOT respected. He said, that those who do homams earn a lot, but those who do rites for the deceased, do not earn much.

https://orientviews.wordpress.com/2013/10/02/native-brahmins-and-non-native-brahmins/

---
the situation is similar in West Bengal. In Bengal, there are two types of brahmins: local bengali brahmins like Lahiri and Sanyal, and brahmins who migrated to Bengal (Chattopadhyaya or Chatterjee, Bandopadyaya or Banerjee, Gangopadhyaya or Ganguli and Mukhopadhyaya or Mukherjee). In the instance of Bengal, the brahmin immigrants are all Kanyakubja brahmins who were originally from Uttar Pradesh.

As in Tamil Nadu, the migrant brahmins in Bengal consider themselves superior to the local brahmins.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu Empty Re: Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu

Post by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:02 pm

My family is a complete mixture of many subcashtus. Those two aren't the only subsects. There are many more. There are vathimas (a corruption of the term pathineNmar -- those hailing from a group of 18 villages in the Thanjavur district), Ashta sahasram, BrihacharaNam and so on. The point is historically they may have been from different places, but they are undoubtedly Tamilians.

There is an interesting turn of phrase associated with the Chozhiyan Brahmins. When someone is doing something suspiciously altruistic (presumably in the hope receiving a benefit to oneself)  we sometimes say 'Chozhiyan kudumi chumma AdAthu'. The literal meaning of that is a Chozhiyan's tuft doesn't wiggle without reason.
MaxEntropy_Man
MaxEntropy_Man

Posts : 14701
Join date : 2011-04-28

Back to top Go down

Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu Empty Re: Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu

Post by Guest Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:30 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:My family is a complete mixture of many subcashtus. Those two aren't the only subsects. There are many more. There are vathimas (a corruption of the term pathineNmar -- those hailing from a group of 18 villages in the Thanjavur district), Ashta sahasram, BrihacharaNam and so on. The point is historically they may have been from different places, but they are undoubtedly Tamilians.

the point is that the Cholas were patronizing the Vadama brahmins over and above the local brahmins. Why so? Clearly because the Vadamas had a deeper knowledge of hindu rituals.

am i  to understand that traditionally it is quite ok for inter-marriages to take place between vadama brahmins and choliya brahmins?

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:There is an interesting turn of phrase associated with the Chozhiyan Brahmins. When someone is doing something suspiciously altruistic (presumably in the hope receiving a benefit to oneself)  we sometimes say 'Chozhiyan kudumi chumma AdAthu'. The literal meaning of that is a Chozhiyan's tuft doesn't wiggle without reason.

LOL.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu Empty Re: Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu

Post by silvermani Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:32 pm

I remember reading somewhere long ago that Saurav Ganguly is a Kanya kubja brahmin. At that time I had no clue what that caste indicates. It is iteresting to know that all the "jees" plus ganguly of Bengal are immigrants from the same area. Within TN, do the Vadamas speak the local language or Hindi or Sanskrit?
silvermani
silvermani

Posts : 1631
Join date : 2014-01-18

Back to top Go down

Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu Empty Re: Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu

Post by Guest Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:34 pm

silvermani wrote:I remember reading somewhere long ago that Saurav Ganguly is a Kanya kubja brahmin. At that time I had no clue what that caste indicates. It is iteresting to know that all the "jees" plus ganguly of Bengal are immigrants from the same area. Within TN, do the Vadamas speak the local language or Hindi or Sanskrit?

of course the Vadamas will be speaking the local language since the migration took place a long time ago. the same goes for the migrant bengali brahmins who also speak the local language.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu Empty Re: Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu

Post by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:48 pm

silvermani wrote:Within TN, do the Vadamas speak the local language or Hindi or Sanskrit?

Within Punjab, do the Punjabis speak Punjabi or Kazakh or Uzbek?
MaxEntropy_Man
MaxEntropy_Man

Posts : 14701
Join date : 2011-04-28

Back to top Go down

Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu Empty Re: Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu

Post by Kayalvizhi Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:51 pm

silvermani wrote: Within TN, do the Vadamas speak the local language or Hindi or Sanskrit?

They are Tamils. They speak Tamil.

Kayalvizhi

Posts : 3659
Join date : 2011-05-16

Back to top Go down

Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu Empty Re: Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu

Post by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:00 pm

Kayalvizhi wrote:
silvermani wrote: Within TN, do the Vadamas speak the local language or Hindi or Sanskrit?

They are Tamils. They speak Tamil.

இந்த மாதிரி கிறுக்குத்தனமான கேள்விக்கெல்லாம் கிறுக்குத்தனமான பதில்தான் சரி.
MaxEntropy_Man
MaxEntropy_Man

Posts : 14701
Join date : 2011-04-28

Back to top Go down

Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu Empty Re: Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu

Post by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:06 pm

Rashmun wrote:
am i  to understand that traditionally it is quite ok for inter-marriages to take place between vadama brahmins and choliya brahmins?


While there are still very traditional Tamil Brahmin families who only look for partners within their subcastes, marrying across subcastes (but within the brahmin community) is the current norm. In fact Iyer-Iyengar marriages are as common as trans-subcaste marriages amongst Iyers and amongst Iyengars.

Much less common are true arranged marriages across castes. If you see a Mudaliar - Iyer pair or a Saiva Pillai - Iyer pair that's most likely not an arranged marriage.
MaxEntropy_Man
MaxEntropy_Man

Posts : 14701
Join date : 2011-04-28

Back to top Go down

Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu Empty Re: Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu

Post by silvermani Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:51 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
silvermani wrote:Within TN, do the Vadamas speak the local language or Hindi or Sanskrit?

Within Punjab, do the Punjabis speak Punjabi or Kazakh or Uzbek?
There are migrant communities in TN who still speak their original language - the Saurashtra people, for example. There are also Telugu people in TN who still speak it at home.
silvermani
silvermani

Posts : 1631
Join date : 2014-01-18

Back to top Go down

Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu Empty Re: Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu

Post by Vakavaka Pakapaka Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:07 pm

silvermani wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
silvermani wrote:Within TN, do the Vadamas speak the local language or Hindi or Sanskrit?

Within Punjab, do the Punjabis speak Punjabi or Kazakh or Uzbek?
There are migrant communities in TN who still speak their original language - the Saurashtra people, for example. There are also Telugu people in TN who still speak it at home.
They speak with a Tamil accent. They are also afraid of DKheads with fanatic tendencies. I know Tamils don't like to hear this - communities that moved to TN during the Pallava, Chalukya, Nayaka, Maratha, etc., periods highly enriched "Tamil" culture.

Vakavaka Pakapaka

Posts : 7611
Join date : 2012-08-24

Back to top Go down

Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu Empty Re: Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu

Post by silvermani Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:40 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
silvermani wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
silvermani wrote:Within TN, do the Vadamas speak the local language or Hindi or Sanskrit?

Within Punjab, do the Punjabis speak Punjabi or Kazakh or Uzbek?
There are migrant communities in TN who still speak their original language - the Saurashtra people, for example. There are also Telugu people in TN who still speak it at home.
They speak with a Tamil accent. They are also afraid of DKheads with fanatic tendencies. I know Tamils don't like to hear this - communities that moved to TN during the Pallava, Chalukya, Nayaka, Maratha, etc., periods highly enriched "Tamil" culture.
These same DKheads whine about the plight of Tamils in far off lands but want to marginalize every non Tamil ethnicity within TN.
silvermani
silvermani

Posts : 1631
Join date : 2014-01-18

Back to top Go down

Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu Empty Re: Chola Kings and Vadama brahmins vs Choliya brahmins in Tamil Nadu

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum