Re: another take on exemplary asian american kids vs. elite colleges

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:39 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
swapna wrote:[
what about the thamizh brahmins? have they founded and organized a university or college that you'd be happy and proud to attend, even in india? (the only such case I know of in the post-independent india is that of a metallurgical lab at iit-m, funded by my class mate, a scion of the most important, iyengaar business family.)

so, I entreat you parents of smart, brown children to stifle the whines, stop the wailing, curb the demands - we are not entitled to a bloody thing - and gratefully, and with grace, make the best use you can, of what america has built for and offered you and your children.

ok...since you asked....

Vellore Institute of Technology (and now UNIVERSITY).

SRM University with campuses in TN and Sikkim (This is moving up the ranks)

BITS Group..

Manipal University

PSG Institutions.

Amrita Group of Institutions

There are several - education-based business groups - that are ploughing back the donation/tuition money into the institutions. Already some of these are ranked higher than some of the IITs, with JEE rankers prefering Mech/Comp Sci at these universities over Aero, Chemical, mining and pottery engineering at IITs. Some of these have opened campuses in the middle east and Singapore/malaysia.

PSG and sons,founders of BITS and MIT etc were tamizh brahmins?

If i can be a Kumbakonum Iyengar, they all can be Tamizh brahmins as well.

by garam_kuta Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:14 pm

in the movie 'Under Suspicion' Mediocre people tolerate success... when it comes to someone exceptional like a movie star or an athlete... but when it come to one of their own... then it strikes them as being an injustice. You agree?

hmmm...the same old pathetic 'kauwa chala hans ki chaal..." trait - even the swans may accept and endorse that the crow's gait is like their own, but the other crows would never agree, no, noway one of their own could do that.

Jonathan Livingston Seagull, a seagull who is bored with daily squabbles over food. Seized by a passion for flight, he pushes himself, learning everything he can about flying, until finally his unwillingness to conform results in his expulsion. An outcast, he continues to learn, becoming increasingly pleased with his abilities as he leads a peaceful and happy life.

I am sure he just got lucky Wink

by swapna Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:52 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:and if you want examples known to everyone, vijay iyer, rudresh mahantappa, jhuempa lahiri, suketu mehta, and arun rath all of whom were either wholly or partially raised in the US, didn't happen in a vacuum.

these are well-known, talented ~~peepals~~ professionals of indian origin, but NOT ones who were denied admission at harvard or a similar university, in spite of being highly accomplished along multiple dimensions. they don't strengthen your contention that harvard engages in racial discrimination against asian applicants.

vijay iyer, for instance, was NOT denied admission at an ivy-league university, for he did attend yale, graduating with a bachelor's degree in physics. I think he had received training in carnatic music before he entered yale, so was multi-talented in classical music, physics, and mathematics.

yale was the perfect venue for him, more so than harvard, and the university apparently recognized that fact by admitting him. indeed, yale seems to have nurtured iyer's multiple talents, and given him the courage and the vision - largely, i suspect, a consequence of his interactions with his wonderfully DIVERSE cohort group that yale had carefully composed - to pursue an unconventional but admirable path.

iyer is an example that considerably weakens your argument about discrimination against asians.

by swapna Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:33 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
swapna wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:saamiyar -- based on what I see it is very easy to challenge the notion that asians are unidimensional academics, and high scoring automatons with no life outside of academics. it's just that they don't excel at the same things that other groups do.

if privilege is a burden then why should asian privilege be a heavier burden than jewish privilege?
please show me some evidence that they are not as described in the bold text above. what are some things outside academics at which asians excel? I'd be especially interested in the case of indian students.

since you ask, is it fair to say you subscribe to this stereotype?

would you say that it's fair to describe an ethnic/racial stereotype that you apparently abhor, in YOUR own unflattering words, and ask me if I subscribe to that description?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:59 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:saamiyar -- based on what I see it is very easy to challenge the notion that asians are unidimensional academics, and high scoring automatons with no life outside of academics. it's just that they don't excel at the same things that other groups do.

if privilege is a burden then why should asian privilege be a heavier burden than jewish privilege?

You are right about that. It will take 3 or 5 generations before Asians and Indians excel in popular sports. Indians have shown they can excel in non-physical activities outside of academics and make it their profession. There are examples in Journalism, Judiciary, and even politics. They excel in debates social work and practically everything except sports. One cannot say they are uni-dimensional it is just that most - coming from educated families - do well in related activities. But, it is also true to a large extent most kids make "social activities" as their extra curricular area with an Elite School angle. It continues on while they are in college with an eye on professional school admission. It is very common to see the applicants claim this and that award in dance, music, or local beauty pagents just to beef up their resume. In fact such farcical claims - unless they are media grabbing achievements - actually dilute their academic achievements. The admission committees are expert enough to separate the chaff. This is one reason why the Elite colleges do reject many "academically" well qualified Indians as they lack in "original" other activities.

by bw Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:54 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:saamiyar -- based on what I see it is very easy to challenge the notion that asians are unidimensional academics, and high scoring automatons with no life outside of academics. it's just that they don't excel at the same things that other groups do.

if privilege is a burden then why should asian privilege be a heavier burden than jewish privilege?

You are right about that. It will take 3 or 5 generations before Asians and Indians excel in popular sports. Indians have shown they can excel in non-physical activities outside of academics and make it their profession. There are examples in Journalism, Judiciary, and even politics. They excel in debates social work and practically everything except sports. One cannot say they are uni-dimensional it is just that most - coming from educated families - do well in related activities. But, it is also true to a large extent most kids make "social activities" as their extra curricular area with an Elite School angle. It continues on while they are in college with an eye on professional school admission. It is very common to see the applicants claim this and that award in dance, music, or local beauty pagents just to beef up their resume. In fact such farcical claims - unless they are media grabbing achievements - actually dilute their academic achievements. The admission committees are expert enough to separate the chaff. This is one reason why the Elite colleges do reject many "academically" well qualified Indians as they lack in "original" other activities.

way too much stress on this "all rounder" business. i find most of them automatons with no real deep interest in one area. erdos wdn't have made it to one of these ivy leagues! oxcam is a better place for people who are singularly passionate about math or physics.

met an orthopaedic surgeon yesterday who is also an opera singer of some calibre - should check if he attended an ivy league college.

by Kris Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:21 pm

bw wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:saamiyar -- based on what I see it is very easy to challenge the notion that asians are unidimensional academics, and high scoring automatons with no life outside of academics. it's just that they don't excel at the same things that other groups do.

if privilege is a burden then why should asian privilege be a heavier burden than jewish privilege?

You are right about that. It will take 3 or 5 generations before Asians and Indians excel in popular sports. Indians have shown they can excel in non-physical activities outside of academics and make it their profession. There are examples in Journalism, Judiciary, and even politics. They excel in debates social work and practically everything except sports. One cannot say they are uni-dimensional it is just that most - coming from educated families - do well in related activities. But, it is also true to a large extent most kids make "social activities" as their extra curricular area with an Elite School angle. It continues on while they are in college with an eye on professional school admission. It is very common to see the applicants claim this and that award in dance, music, or local beauty pagents just to beef up their resume. In fact such farcical claims - unless they are media grabbing achievements - actually dilute their academic achievements. The admission committees are expert enough to separate the chaff. This is one reason why the Elite colleges do reject many "academically" well qualified Indians as they lack in "original" other activities.

way too much stress on this "all rounder" business. i find most of them automatons with no real deep interest in one area. erdos wdn't have made it to one of these ivy leagues! oxcam is a better place for people who are singularly passionate about math or physics.

met an orthopaedic surgeon yesterday who is also an opera singer of some calibre - should check if he attended an ivy league college.

>>>Agree with you. If this is an aspiration because of peer pressure or college admission pressure, it is a contrived idea and is unhealthy in that it can take its toll on you. If someone is genuinely interested in several fields and excels in many of them, that is good but that is usually a rarity. Of course, there is also a good possibility that multiple interests when you don't excel at any of them could be a manifestation of ADD. In all seriousness, I have often wondered if this is the case with me.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:22 pm

Kris wrote:
bw wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:saamiyar -- based on what I see it is very easy to challenge the notion that asians are unidimensional academics, and high scoring automatons with no life outside of academics. it's just that they don't excel at the same things that other groups do.

if privilege is a burden then why should asian privilege be a heavier burden than jewish privilege?

You are right about that. It will take 3 or 5 generations before Asians and Indians excel in popular sports. Indians have shown they can excel in non-physical activities outside of academics and make it their profession. There are examples in Journalism, Judiciary, and even politics. They excel in debates social work and practically everything except sports. One cannot say they are uni-dimensional it is just that most - coming from educated families - do well in related activities. But, it is also true to a large extent most kids make "social activities" as their extra curricular area with an Elite School angle. It continues on while they are in college with an eye on professional school admission. It is very common to see the applicants claim this and that award in dance, music, or local beauty pagents just to beef up their resume. In fact such farcical claims - unless they are media grabbing achievements - actually dilute their academic achievements. The admission committees are expert enough to separate the chaff. This is one reason why the Elite colleges do reject many "academically" well qualified Indians as they lack in "original" other activities.

way too much stress on this "all rounder" business. i find most of them automatons with no real deep interest in one area. erdos wdn't have made it to one of these ivy leagues! oxcam is a better place for people who are singularly passionate about math or physics.

met an orthopaedic surgeon yesterday who is also an opera singer of some calibre - should check if he attended an ivy league college.
>>>Agree with you. If this is an aspiration because of peer pressure or college admission pressure, it is a contrived idea and is unhealthy in that it can take its toll on you. If someone is genuinely interested in several fields and excels in many of them, that is good but that is usually a rarity. Of course, there is also a good possibility that multiple interests when you don't excel at any of them could be a manifestation of ADD. In all seriousness, I have often wondered if this is the case with me.

I have a similar issue on spreading my interests thin. Instead of focussing on a single interest act on 2 or 3. I realized one day recently that I hv been doing this since i was a kid. sports or school i was good enough to be graded a C and a couple of sports/subjects a B grade. But never an A or A+ in anything. Still hv that problem. Even considering going on stattera or vivance and act on a couple of ambitions (there I go again..i typed couple of interests). i hv to repeatedly remind myself that i am too old at 103 to try any new stunts.

It's Harvard's loss that i am not applying for admission there... Razz

by Kris Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:03 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Kris wrote:
bw wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:saamiyar -- based on what I see it is very easy to challenge the notion that asians are unidimensional academics, and high scoring automatons with no life outside of academics. it's just that they don't excel at the same things that other groups do.

if privilege is a burden then why should asian privilege be a heavier burden than jewish privilege?

You are right about that. It will take 3 or 5 generations before Asians and Indians excel in popular sports. Indians have shown they can excel in non-physical activities outside of academics and make it their profession. There are examples in Journalism, Judiciary, and even politics. They excel in debates social work and practically everything except sports. One cannot say they are uni-dimensional it is just that most - coming from educated families - do well in related activities. But, it is also true to a large extent most kids make "social activities" as their extra curricular area with an Elite School angle. It continues on while they are in college with an eye on professional school admission. It is very common to see the applicants claim this and that award in dance, music, or local beauty pagents just to beef up their resume. In fact such farcical claims - unless they are media grabbing achievements - actually dilute their academic achievements. The admission committees are expert enough to separate the chaff. This is one reason why the Elite colleges do reject many "academically" well qualified Indians as they lack in "original" other activities.

way too much stress on this "all rounder" business. i find most of them automatons with no real deep interest in one area. erdos wdn't have made it to one of these ivy leagues! oxcam is a better place for people who are singularly passionate about math or physics.

met an orthopaedic surgeon yesterday who is also an opera singer of some calibre - should check if he attended an ivy league college.
>>>Agree with you. If this is an aspiration because of peer pressure or college admission pressure, it is a contrived idea and is unhealthy in that it can take its toll on you. If someone is genuinely interested in several fields and excels in many of them, that is good but that is usually a rarity. Of course, there is also a good possibility that multiple interests when you don't excel at any of them could be a manifestation of ADD. In all seriousness, I have often wondered if this is the case with me.

I have a similar issue on spreading my interests thin. Instead of focussing on a single interest act on 2 or 3. I realized one day recently that I hv been doing this since i was a kid. sports or school i was good enough to be graded a C and a couple of sports/subjects a B grade. But never an A or A+ in anything. Still hv that problem. Even considering going on stattera or vivance and act on a couple of ambitions (there I go again..i typed couple of interests). i hv to repeatedly remind myself that i am too old at 103 to try any new stunts.

It's Harvard's loss that i am not applying for admission there...

>>> As early as high school, I realized this, but found out much later about ADD etc. The silver lining is that it came in handy in project management, where you are juggling multiple things. Too late for ADD medication now. Smile

by swapna Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:39 am

here's a thread from collegeconfidential dot com in reaction to an npr story some time ago on the asian bias in ivy-league undergraduate admissions:

talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/1778921-npr-story-on-harvards-asian-bias-p20.html

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:54 pm

yeah...there is another way to get to an IVY....become homeless...

....The Peekskill resident was recently honored with a Jack Kent Cooke Foundation Undergraduate Transfer Scholarship, which offers students who have completed their associate's degree up to $40,000 per year to pursue a four-year diploma. He found out in April that he had won the award, presented to just 85 students annually nationwide

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