Re: css profile

Re: css profile · by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:21 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the early action decisions have started coming in. the asian and indian kids are doing well, but no ivy early action for asian and indian kids. the only ones who got in early are white and hispanic kids (school has a negligible black population) who are neither at the top of the academic nor the extracurricular food chain.

Indian and Asian kids are competing against themselves from all over the country with every IVY. It is very common to see not so stellar desi kids from midwest getting in while far accomplished desi kids from east and west coast fail to make the grade. Seen it many times in the past.

Re: css profile · by Hellsangel Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:31 pm

Veeu wrote:
Veeu wrote:a question to the wise people of such.
if your kid is academically exceptional with perfect SAT score, GPA and great extracurriculars so that she can get into any university, but she cannot get any scholarship or aid at the ivies because of parents income and as max said the process rewards the profligate,irresponsible parents.so she is expected to dole out upwards of 140k for the ivy education.
she will probably be offered full ride at some universities which are in the top 75 but not the prestige of the ivies. what should she choose considering that the success of the ivy alumni is more because of student quality and networking rather than any value addition by the ivies.
i know what saamiyaar is going to say, what do the rest say?
is the additional 140k worth it for the ivy stamp?
the high command has taken the decision already. the prevailing logic is that money can always be earned back but the kid never should say in her lifetime, "if only I went to ....."

Ammachi will swear by that school. Congratulations to your d!

Re: css profile · by garam-kuta Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:03 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Beatrix Kiddo wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Veeu wrote:
Veeu wrote:a question to the wise people of such.
if your kid is academically exceptional with perfect SAT score, GPA and great extracurriculars so that she can get into any university, but she cannot get any scholarship or aid at the ivies because of parents income and as max said the process rewards the profligate,irresponsible parents.so she is expected to dole out upwards of 140k for the ivy education.
she will probably be offered full ride at some universities which are in the top 75 but not the prestige of the ivies. what should she choose considering that the success of the ivy alumni is more because of student quality and networking rather than any value addition by the ivies.
i know what saamiyaar is going to say, what do the rest say?
is the additional 140k worth it for the ivy stamp?
the high command has taken the decision already. the prevailing logic is that money can always be earned back but the kid never should say in her lifetime, "if only I went to ....."

congratulations!

a decision has been made. a decision is necessitated only when there is an actual choice to be made. the choice was outlined in the original message. conclusion: (veeu's) kid got into one of the ivies. hence the congratulations.

not yet. i was not clear in my post and max made some extra assumptions.
it was only a deferral to regular action at her first choice institution. the asian penalty bar is set at a much higher level than what i estimated it to be. the white kids with much lesser credentials got in.
i am pissed off at the whole asian thing. racially, we have more in common with the caucasians than asians. we are only geographically asians not wrt to facial features,build or other traits common to a race. it should be a caucasian vs mongoloid. not white vs asian.
anyway, she will mostly get into her second or third choice schools if not the first choice. the original question was only the expense at an ivy vs the full ride at lesser school. the decision was in regards to that.

Re: css profile · by garam-kuta Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:06 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
Veeu wrote:
Veeu wrote:a question to the wise people of such.
if your kid is academically exceptional with perfect SAT score, GPA and great extracurriculars so that she can get into any university, but she cannot get any scholarship or aid at the ivies because of parents income and as max said the process rewards the profligate,irresponsible parents.so she is expected to dole out upwards of 140k for the ivy education.
she will probably be offered full ride at some universities which are in the top 75 but not the prestige of the ivies. what should she choose considering that the success of the ivy alumni is more because of student quality and networking rather than any value addition by the ivies.
i know what saamiyaar is going to say, what do the rest say?
is the additional 140k worth it for the ivy stamp?
the high command has taken the decision already. the prevailing logic is that money can always be earned back but the kid never should say in her lifetime, "if only I went to ....."
Ammachi will swear by that school. Congratulations to your d!

not that school.

Re: css profile · by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:13 pm

Veeu wrote:
Veeu wrote:a question to the wise people of such.
if your kid is academically exceptional with perfect SAT score, GPA and great extracurriculars so that she can get into any university, but she cannot get any scholarship or aid at the ivies because of parents income and as max said the process rewards the profligate,irresponsible parents.so she is expected to dole out upwards of 140k for the ivy education.
she will probably be offered full ride at some universities which are in the top 75 but not the prestige of the ivies. what should she choose considering that the success of the ivy alumni is more because of student quality and networking rather than any value addition by the ivies.
i know what saamiyaar is going to say, what do the rest say?
is the additional 140k worth it for the ivy stamp?
the high command has taken the decision already. the prevailing logic is that money can always be earned back but the kid never should say in her lifetime, "if only I went to ....."

Is this logic, a sure-shot way of setting them up for failure or precluding them from reaching their full potential? If you think that kid will blame you down the road for his/her shortcomings, then imo, they're already in her/his way towards failure.

Re: css profile · by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:36 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Veeu wrote:
Veeu wrote:a question to the wise people of such.
if your kid is academically exceptional with perfect SAT score, GPA and great extracurriculars so that she can get into any university, but she cannot get any scholarship or aid at the ivies because of parents income and as max said the process rewards the profligate,irresponsible parents.so she is expected to dole out upwards of 140k for the ivy education.
she will probably be offered full ride at some universities which are in the top 75 but not the prestige of the ivies. what should she choose considering that the success of the ivy alumni is more because of student quality and networking rather than any value addition by the ivies.
i know what saamiyaar is going to say, what do the rest say?
is the additional 140k worth it for the ivy stamp?
the high command has taken the decision already. the prevailing logic is that money can always be earned back but the kid never should say in her lifetime, "if only I went to ....."
Is this logic, a sure-shot way of setting them up for failure or precluding them from reaching their full potential? If you think that kid will blame you down the road for his/her shortcomings, then imo, they're already in her/his way towards failure.

UPenn, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard, Yale are fine and give a lift for the kid. Dartmouth, Brown, and the last one are not really considered that great by anyone - and least of all by other fellow Ivy leaguers.

Usually, it is the parents who feel guilty about not sending their kids to IVY - if they received an admission. They assume that their kid MIGHT blame them in the future for not becoming a Pichai or a Srini. A lot depends on what the kid wants to study.

Re: css profile · by truthbetold Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:47 pm

Uppili,

These kids and their parents are intelligent and smart. They do lot of ground work and make informed decisions. Indian americans are one of the most successful immigrant groups in terms of income. May be they are doing something right.

Re: css profile · by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:48 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
UPenn, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard, Yale are fine and give a lift for the kid. Dartmouth, Brown, and the last one are not really considered that great by anyone - and least of all by other fellow Ivy leaguers.

Usually, it is the parents who feel guilty about not sending their kids to IVY - if they received an admission. They assume that their kid MIGHT blame them in the future for not becoming a Pichai or a Srini. A lot depends on what the kid wants to study.

Wonder what percent of the top 5% earners are Ivy grads.

Re: css profile · by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:46 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
UPenn, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard, Yale are fine and give a lift for the kid. Dartmouth, Brown, and the last one are not really considered that great by anyone - and least of all by other fellow Ivy leaguers.

Usually, it is the parents who feel guilty about not sending their kids to IVY - if they received an admission. They assume that their kid MIGHT blame them in the future for not becoming a Pichai or a Srini. A lot depends on what the kid wants to study.
Wonder what percent of the top 5% earners are Ivy grads.

So you are just another regular desi. Earning is the only measure of success?

If one makes 250K doing what he/she likes and another making 600,000 but working like a dog and too happy with the 24 hr tension, who do you think is successful ?

Re: css profile · by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:38 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
UPenn, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard, Yale are fine and give a lift for the kid. Dartmouth, Brown, and the last one are not really considered that great by anyone - and least of all by other fellow Ivy leaguers.

Usually, it is the parents who feel guilty about not sending their kids to IVY - if they received an admission. They assume that their kid MIGHT blame them in the future for not becoming a Pichai or a Srini. A lot depends on what the kid wants to study.
Wonder what percent of the top 5% earners are Ivy grads.

So you are just another regular desi. Earning is the only measure of success?

If one makes 250K doing what he/she likes and another making 600,000 but working like a dog and too happy with the 24 hr tension, who do you think is successful ?

Why do you think they're after IVYs and other top schools, to attain Nirvana or for a noble cause? Don't be so naive, as you're with other subjects. This country lives by the capitalism, dies by the capitalism which is another name for materialism. Clinton's achieved all the success/fame one can't even dream of, yet it didn't stop them from hoarding billions of dollars, did it?

Re: css profile · by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:51 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
UPenn, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard, Yale are fine and give a lift for the kid. Dartmouth, Brown, and the last one are not really considered that great by anyone - and least of all by other fellow Ivy leaguers.

Usually, it is the parents who feel guilty about not sending their kids to IVY - if they received an admission. They assume that their kid MIGHT blame them in the future for not becoming a Pichai or a Srini. A lot depends on what the kid wants to study.
Wonder what percent of the top 5% earners are Ivy grads.

So you are just another regular desi. Earning is the only measure of success?

If one makes 250K doing what he/she likes and another making 600,000 but working like a dog and too happy with the 24 hr tension, who do you think is successful ?
Why do you think they're after IVYs and other top schools, to attain Nirvana or for a noble cause? Don't be so naive, as you're with other subjects. This country lives by the capitalism, dies by the capitalism which is another name for materialism. Clinton's achieved all the success/fame one can't even dream of, yet it didn't stop them from hoarding billions of dollars, did it?

Fine then, great, and good luck.

Re: css profile · by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:10 pm

Wow! Georgia tech really likes east coast kids!

Re: css profile · by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:17 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Wow! Georgia tech really likes east coast kids!

But is it an IVY League? It is not even a University. Ask Swapie.

Re: css profile · by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:26 pm

Don't give a shit. In our calculations it's a fantastic option. The quality to cost ratio is about as high as it's going to get.

Re: css profile · by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:19 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Don't give a shit. In our calculations it's a fantastic option. The quality to cost ratio is about as high as it's going to get.

I agree....

From what I hear Berkeley, Ann Arbor, GT hv tough UG programs where the kids REALLY have to earn their grades - that is, there is no room for any grade inflation (as at Stanford, MIT, the Ivies)

Good choice and good luck.

P.S. Not to mention the Cheaper and convenient ATL-BOS flights.

Re: css profile · by truthbetold Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:32 am

CD,

Ivy leagues and other top 7 or 8 universities such as Stanford, duke, Vanderbilt, Notredame, Cal Tech, u of chicago etc. do run this country both politically and economically.

Re: css profile · by confuzzled dude Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:46 pm

truthbetold wrote:CD,

Ivy leagues and other top 7 or 8 universities such as Stanford, duke, Vanderbilt, Notredame, Cal Tech, u of chicago etc. do run this country both politically and economically.

That's probably the main reason for national debt growing astronomically Smile

Here is an interesting article on gimmickry involved with Wall Street hiring

This wasn’t so much because banks and consulting firms had a greater demand for young brainpower. Rather, these other industries managed to find the talent they needed—to, say, devise new medicines or software or oil exploration techniques—from the broad array of American colleges and universities. While happy to hire Ivy Leaguers, they didn’t inordinately seek them out. Wall Street and the consulting firms, by contrast, developed business models that relied on the appearance of brainpower in order to win clients. This put a premium on recruiting from a handful of universities with the highest worldwide brand equity. Top students from Purdue or UCLA might be just as good, or even better, at putting together spreadsheets. But being able to boast that you have a team of kids from Harvard is important when you are trying to sell high-cost consulting and financial services of uncertain value.

To get to those kids, the nation’s top banks and consulting firms began by competing with each other to become “platinum” members of the career services programs run by the most elite schools. Winners of this pay-for-play competition get the best tables at campus career fairs, access to students’ email in-boxes, entrée to the most impressive banquet rooms for holding information sessions and receptions, bundled delivery of applicants’ résumés, and space and scheduled times to hold one-on-one interviews, among other goods and services known as “recruitment.”

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/septemberoctober_2014/features/why_are_harvard_grads_still_fl051758.php?page=all

Re: css profile · by confuzzled dude Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:03 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Wow! Georgia tech really likes east coast kids!

Congrats!

Re: css profile · by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:43 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Wow! Georgia tech really likes east coast kids!
Congrats!

GT accepts around 2 % (in Eng) and 5% (other majors) of the applicants. I also suspect MAx's kid must have got an in-state tuition (he talked about quality/tuition). If true, then it is an excellent choice. Even out of state tuition is at around 28K way less than most top schools (There are a couple of more really top schools that have low in tuition for goodly out of state students).

Re: css profile · by swapna Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:12 pm

truthbetold wrote:CD,

Ivy leagues and other top 7 or 8 universities such as Stanford, duke, Vanderbilt, Notredame, Cal Tech, u of chicago etc. do run this country both politically and economically.

I don't think that vanderbilt, notre dame, duke, or caltech is among the universities that run this country.

a little while ago, a candidate's principal policy advisor called a person I know to discuss a policy matter that's important to that candidate; the latter had attended ivy league universities and another university in your list, but not notre dame etc.

Re: css profile · by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:26 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Don't give a shit. In our calculations it's a fantastic option. The quality to cost ratio is about as high as it's going to get.

I agree....

From what I hear Berkeley, Ann Arbor, GT hv tough UG programs where the kids REALLY have to earn their grades - that is, there is no room for any grade inflation (as at Stanford, MIT, the Ivies)

Good choice and good luck.

P.S. Not to mention the Cheaper and convenient ATL-BOS flights.

there is no grade inflation at MIT. they get pass/fail grades in their freshman year and then they are graded properly. it's no walk in the park. i don't know the situation at stanford and i am also not sure grade inflation exists at all the ivies. harvard most definitely is a grade inflater. you're quite right about ugrad programs at Ann Arbor and GT. GT is a great option for engineering. i have always liked them for a variety of reasons.

no in-state. even out of state is very reasonable compared to what many of the well known east coast private schools charge.

Re: css profile · by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:31 pm

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2014/08/economics-university-grading

speaking of grading, my kids' high school a well known charter school in the area is a notorious grade deflater. we have been worried for some time about that, but the school has assured us that the colleges know this and respect them for it. we'll see. their philosophy is that this approach is good preparation for college.

Re: css profile · by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:42 pm

i think the reason for grade inflation at harvard is that over half the admits are AA or legacy candidates or athletics admits. very few people will pass if they grade like uchicago or Ann Arbor. i am not sure how much harvard really cares about truly educating undergrads. research and graduate education is a whole different kettle of fish.

Re: css profile · by Guest Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:08 pm

congrats Max! is this final?

Re: css profile · by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:30 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2014/08/economics-university-grading

speaking of grading, my kids' high school a well known charter school in the area is a notorious grade deflater. we have been worried for some time about that, but the school has assured us that the colleges know this and respect them for it. we'll see. their philosophy is that this approach is good preparation for college.

Good grade are a must...But, they need to be "certified" by an equally good Standardized test score. That is the key. A less than average "test score" will kill everything - good reco, good GPA, etc..etc..similarly a bad reco can kill everything else - that too if the referee is a known creature.

Re: css profile · by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:44 pm

Beatrix Kiddo wrote:congrats Max! is this final?

no still waiting to hear from other schools. this is not binding. but it's a school the entire family likes and is happy with. we visited (i have visited many times before) in fall and loved it. they seem to like my kids' school. they admitted nine kids from a class of 200 last year and about five chose to attend. this year's stats seem similar based on early action results. many kids applied regular decision. we'll see.

Re: css profile · by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:59 pm

most indian and asian kids from her school have ended up at really solid schools like ann arbor, uchicago, minnesota, GT etc. very few over the years have cracked the ivies. ivies do figure in the school's list every year, but mostly minority (read non indian and non chinese) and caucasian students. our sense is that the indian applicant penalty at the ivies is even higher than we have been led to believe from the media reports. the most solid indian kids over the years have regularly ended up at MIT and caltech. so to preserve our sanity we've never let the ivies figure in our considerations of anything. she has applied to a couple with zero expectations.

there are a few indian kids that have expressed an interest in really unusual tracks that they're unlikely to stick with because they are so obsessed with the ivies. their reasoning is that they'll get in and then do a switcharoo. we told her to not write anything in her application that she doesn't truly have an interest in.

Re: css profile · by truthbetold Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:13 pm

swapna wrote:
truthbetold wrote:CD,

Ivy leagues and other top 7 or 8 universities such as Stanford, duke, Vanderbilt, Notredame, Cal Tech, u of chicago etc. do run this country both politically and economically.
I don't think that vanderbilt, notre dame, duke, or caltech is among the universities that run this country.

a little while ago, a candidate's principal policy advisor called a person I know to discuss a policy matter that's important to that candidate; the latter had attended ivy league universities and another university in your list, but not notre dame etc.

Swapna/flimflam,

You are entitled to your opinion. Every body does.

You have not shown much of an ability to analyze the world around you. Your bigoted opinion on narthindians also indicate you do not have an objective viewer of the world.

Your example of an unknown person being approached by some unknown candidate means nothing. You should also remember a single example means just one data point. It does not tell you about any other issue.

Re: css profile · by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:37 pm

swapna wrote:
truthbetold wrote:CD,

Ivy leagues and other top 7 or 8 universities such as Stanford, duke, Vanderbilt, Notredame, Cal Tech, u of chicago etc. do run this country both politically and economically.
I don't think that vanderbilt, notre dame, duke, or caltech is among the universities that run this country.

a little while ago, a candidate's principal policy advisor called a person I know to discuss a policy matter that's important to that candidate; the latter had attended ivy league universities and another university in your list, but not notre dame etc.

You are thiking only the "Administration" side. If you take into account, the southern members of the Congress/Senate; Southern legislatures, Southern state government admins, etc..etc... You will find numerous alumni of Vanderbilt, Duke, Austin, Emory, Georgia, etc..etc...

And for your information, THESE units also play an important role in the financial/Economic sectors of this country. And, more importantly the public will likely trust graduates of these institutions rather than those of Ivy leagues - given the Wall Street reputation over the last decade.

Re: css profile · by Guest Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:19 pm

My take on Ivy leagues: I guess they are great if the kid is getting into the job market soon after the undergrad. The internships, connections and the campus interviews would help the kid in landing up in a good job.

If the student wants to proceed to a professional school or wants to do master's, then it really doesn't matter where he/she has done her/his undergrad from. Where the student last graduated matters more than where he/she has studied before that. We know that Obama and Clinton did their Law from ivies, but no one cares where they did their undergrad from. In that case, it would be a waste to spend thousands of dollars in ivies for undergrad studies (unless you want it to boast about it with others and feel good).

GT is a great school. Short comings: It's a good school if the kid is keen on doing engineering. If halfway through he/she wants to quit engineering and wishes to do something else, there are not many choice of majors offered. Tough grading. If the kiddo wants to go to med school where GPA is of prime importance, then GT may not seem to be the ideal one. But GT's engineering undergrads, as far as i know, are placed very well, with hefty salaries. Student body is fun, if you are an asian. The school is full of desis and orientals.

Re: css profile · by Guest Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:53 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Don't give a shit. In our calculations it's a fantastic option. The quality to cost ratio is about as high as it's going to get.

I agree....

From what I hear Berkeley, Ann Arbor, GT hv tough UG programs where the kids REALLY have to earn their grades - that is, there is no room for any grade inflation (as at Stanford, MIT, the Ivies)

Good choice and good luck.

P.S. Not to mention the Cheaper and convenient ATL-BOS flights.

Grading used to be even more tougher before in GT. That's what I heard. Now they curve it up or something, so it's a little better, I believe. The story that still goes around here is that a few years ago, at the freshman orientation, students were told to look at the one sitting to their right and then at the one on the left and then are told, 'only one of the three of you is going to graduate. The other two are going to either drop off or asked to leave because of poor grades. That's how tough the program is.' It's not the case any more.

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