Germany cozying up to Beijing

goodcitizn wrote:Germans place great emphasis on quality. China is not known for its quality. Let us see how long these contracts end up working.

confuzzled dude wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:Germans place great emphasis on quality. China is not known for its quality. Let us see how long these contracts end up working.

The quality of Benzs', BMWs' and Audis' tells me a different story.

confuzzled dude wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:Germans place great emphasis on quality. China is not known for its quality. Let us see how long these contracts end up working.

The quality of Benzs', BMWs' and Audis' tells me a different story.

Hellsangel wrote:How China assures quality:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/21/asia/china-bank-spanking/

goodcitizn wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:How China assures quality:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/21/asia/china-bank-spanking/

Some hands-on training! :-)

Hellsangel wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:How China assures quality:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/21/asia/china-bank-spanking/

Some hands-on training! :-)

Actually, untouched by human hands.

goodcitizn wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:How China assures quality:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/21/asia/china-bank-spanking/

Some hands-on training! :-)

Actually, untouched by human hands.

Yeah, no carrot ... Only the stick.

goodcitizn wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:Germans place great emphasis on quality. China is not known for its quality. Let us see how long these contracts end up working.

The quality of Benzs', BMWs' and Audis' tells me a different story.

It's a pity you are so uninformed about Chinese quality. I'd buy any German car over a Chinese car any day of the week and twice on Sunday. How many Chinese cars, for example, have you seen on the racing circuit?

I have dealt with China for many years. They are notorious for cutting corners on quality spec's. Unless you have a well-staffed QC dept, you can't afford to do business with China. Ask any surgeon if he'd use Chinese surgical instruments over German-made and he'd laugh in your face.

confuzzled dude wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:Germans place great emphasis on quality. China is not known for its quality. Let us see how long these contracts end up working.

The quality of Benzs', BMWs' and Audis' tells me a different story.

It's a pity you are so uninformed about Chinese quality. I'd buy any German car over a Chinese car any day of the week and twice on Sunday. How many Chinese cars, for example, have you seen on the racing circuit?

I have dealt with China for many years. They are notorious for cutting corners on quality spec's. Unless you have a well-staffed QC dept, you can't afford to do business with China. Ask any surgeon if he'd use Chinese surgical instruments over German-made and he'd laugh in your face.

I wasn't talking about Chinese quality, was I? I was talking about German quality, especially, automobiles, all major brands are notorious for their poor reliability.

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:Germans place great emphasis on quality. China is not known for its quality. Let us see how long these contracts end up working.

The quality of Benzs', BMWs' and Audis' tells me a different story.

It's a pity you are so uninformed about Chinese quality. I'd buy any German car over a Chinese car any day of the week and twice on Sunday. How many Chinese cars, for example, have you seen on the racing circuit?

I have dealt with China for many years. They are notorious for cutting corners on quality spec's. Unless you have a well-staffed QC dept, you can't afford to do business with China. Ask any surgeon if he'd use Chinese surgical instruments over German-made and he'd laugh in your face.

I wasn't talking about Chinese quality, was I? I was talking about German quality, especially, automobiles, all major brands are notorious for their poor reliability.

Still shooting your mouth off, Comrade?
http://www.consumerreports.org/cars/which-car-brands-make-the-best-vehicles/

Audi is #1, Porsche is #4 and BMW is #5.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:
The quality of Benzs', BMWs' and Audis' tells me a different story.

It's a pity you are so uninformed about Chinese quality. I'd buy any German car over a Chinese car any day of the week and twice on Sunday. How many Chinese cars, for example, have you seen on the racing circuit?

I have dealt with China for many years. They are notorious for cutting corners on quality spec's. Unless you have a well-staffed QC dept, you can't afford to do business with China. Ask any surgeon if he'd use Chinese surgical instruments over German-made and he'd laugh in your face.

I wasn't talking about Chinese quality, was I? I was talking about German quality, especially, automobiles, all major brands are notorious for their poor reliability.

Still shooting your mouth off, Comrade?
http://www.consumerreports.org/cars/which-car-brands-make-the-best-vehicles/

Audi is #1, Porsche is #4 and BMW is #5.

Huh! who believes consumer reports which is nothing but a scam. Checkout JD power long term reliability.

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:
It's a pity you are so uninformed about Chinese quality. I'd buy any German car over a Chinese car any day of the week and twice on Sunday. How many Chinese cars, for example, have you seen on the racing circuit?

I have dealt with China for many years. They are notorious for cutting corners on quality spec's. Unless you have a well-staffed QC dept, you can't afford to do business with China. Ask any surgeon if he'd use Chinese surgical instruments over German-made and he'd laugh in your face.

I wasn't talking about Chinese quality, was I? I was talking about German quality, especially, automobiles, all major brands are notorious for their poor reliability.

Still shooting your mouth off, Comrade?
http://www.consumerreports.org/cars/which-car-brands-make-the-best-vehicles/

Audi is #1, Porsche is #4 and BMW is #5.

Huh! who believes consumer reports which is nothing but a scam. Checkout JD power long term reliability.

Let's see.

http://www.jdpower.com/cars/study/2016-Vehicle-Dependability-Study-%28VDS%29-by-Category/843ENG/Midsize-Premium-Car/1101

Mercedes-Benz is #2 and BMW is #4. Comrade, you were saying?

Hellsangel wrote:The link I gave was from the link you sent, Comrade-  for mid sized cars.

Unlike by category, Consumer Reports gives an overall brand reliability.

Sure we get it, you're a posh Comrade who only drives luxury cars. And like any good desi, you'll swear by your Lexus.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:The link I gave was from the link you sent, Comrade-  for mid sized cars.

Unlike by category, Consumer Reports gives an overall brand reliability.

Sure we get it, you're a posh Comrade who only drives luxury cars. And like any good desi, you'll swear by your Lexus.

I don't know about others but I owned both and my judgment is based on my experience. I currently drive Grand Cherokee, so your stereotyping doesn't apply to me.

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:The link I gave was from the link you sent, Comrade-  for mid sized cars.

Unlike by category, Consumer Reports gives an overall brand reliability.

Sure we get it, you're a posh Comrade who only drives luxury cars. And like any good desi, you'll swear by your Lexus.

I don't know about others but I owned both and my judgment is based on my experience. I currently drive Grand Cherokee, so your stereotyping doesn't apply to me.

So don't extrapolate your experience to brand ratings in general. BTW, Jeep Grand Cherokee is a posh car as well, Comrade. Except it has a major reliability problem. Hint: Anton Yelchin.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:The link I gave was from the link you sent, Comrade-  for mid sized cars.

Unlike by category, Consumer Reports gives an overall brand reliability.

Sure we get it, you're a posh Comrade who only drives luxury cars. And like any good desi, you'll swear by your Lexus.

I don't know about others but I owned both and my judgment is based on my experience. I currently drive Grand Cherokee, so your stereotyping doesn't apply to me.

So don't extrapolate your experience to brand ratings in general. BTW, Jeep Grand Cherokee is a posh car as well, Comrade. Except it has a major reliability problem. Hint: Anton Yelchin.

My experience is practical corollary of http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/05/are-german-cars-reliable-myth-german-engineering.html

Some of the reasons why German cars struggle in J.D. Power’s rankings in the past are entirely trivial and are not related to actual vehicle quality at all says Karl Brauer from Total Car Score.
...

In J.D. Power’s Automotive Performance, Execution & Layout (APEAL) study, which looks at how gratifying a new vehicle is to own and drive, based on owner evaluations, Porsche comes out on top, as the only automaker to get 5/5. Audi, BMW Mercedes and VW all achieve a 4/5 in this survey as well, showing that these cars are no slouch when it comes to performance and execution.

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:The link I gave was from the link you sent, Comrade-  for mid sized cars.

Unlike by category, Consumer Reports gives an overall brand reliability.

Sure we get it, you're a posh Comrade who only drives luxury cars. And like any good desi, you'll swear by your Lexus.

I don't know about others but I owned both and my judgment is based on my experience. I currently drive Grand Cherokee, so your stereotyping doesn't apply to me.

So don't extrapolate your experience to brand ratings in general. BTW, Jeep Grand Cherokee is a posh car as well, Comrade. Except it has a major reliability problem. Hint: Anton Yelchin.

My experience is practical corollary of http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/05/are-german-cars-reliable-myth-german-engineering.html

Google can give you any link you want if you search, Comrade. Did you even read the article completely of that link?

Some of the reasons why German cars struggle in J.D. Power’s rankings in the past are entirely trivial and are not related to actual vehicle quality at all says Karl Brauer from Total Car Score.
...

In J.D. Power’s Automotive Performance, Execution & Layout (APEAL) study, which looks at how gratifying a new vehicle is to own and drive, based on owner evaluations, Porsche comes out on top, as the only automaker to get 5/5. Audi, BMW Mercedes and VW all achieve a 4/5 in this survey as well, showing that these cars are no slouch when it comes to performance and execution.

PS: Don't get pinned down by your Jeep Grand Cherokee.

confuzzled dude wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:Germans place great emphasis on quality. China is not known for its quality. Let us see how long these contracts end up working.

The quality of Benzs', BMWs' and Audis' tells me a different story.

It's a pity you are so uninformed about Chinese quality. I'd buy any German car over a Chinese car any day of the week and twice on Sunday. How many Chinese cars, for example, have you seen on the racing circuit?

I have dealt with China for many years. They are notorious for cutting corners on quality spec's. Unless you have a well-staffed QC dept, you can't afford to do business with China. Ask any surgeon if he'd use Chinese surgical instruments over German-made and he'd laugh in your face.

I wasn't talking about Chinese quality, was I? I was talking about German quality, especially, automobiles, all major brands are notorious for their poor reliability.

goodcitizn wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:Germans place great emphasis on quality. China is not known for its quality. Let us see how long these contracts end up working.

The quality of Benzs', BMWs' and Audis' tells me a different story.

It's a pity you are so uninformed about Chinese quality. I'd buy any German car over a Chinese car any day of the week and twice on Sunday. How many Chinese cars, for example, have you seen on the racing circuit?

I have dealt with China for many years. They are notorious for cutting corners on quality spec's. Unless you have a well-staffed QC dept, you can't afford to do business with China. Ask any surgeon if he'd use Chinese surgical instruments over German-made and he'd laugh in your face.

I wasn't talking about Chinese quality, was I? I was talking about German quality, especially, automobiles, all major brands are notorious for their poor reliability.

Only in the land of fairy tales opinions become facts.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:
I don't know about others but I owned both and my judgment is based on my experience. I currently drive Grand Cherokee, so your stereotyping doesn't apply to me.

So don't extrapolate your experience to brand ratings in general. BTW, Jeep Grand Cherokee is a posh car as well, Comrade. Except it has a major reliability problem. Hint: Anton Yelchin.

My experience is practical corollary of http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/05/are-german-cars-reliable-myth-german-engineering.html

Google can give you any link you want if you search, Comrade. Did you even read the article completely of that link?

Some of the reasons why German cars struggle in J.D. Power’s rankings in the past are entirely trivial and are not related to actual vehicle quality at all says Karl Brauer from Total Car Score.
...

In J.D. Power’s Automotive Performance, Execution & Layout (APEAL) study, which looks at how gratifying a new vehicle is to own and drive, based on owner evaluations, Porsche comes out on top, as the only automaker to get 5/5. Audi, BMW Mercedes and VW all achieve a 4/5 in this survey as well, showing that these cars are no slouch when it comes to performance and execution.

PS: Don't get pinned down by your Jeep Grand Cherokee.

I don't have much to say if you think average is top notch. On your other point, I never gushed over the reliability of Grand Cherokee so your rebuttal is meaningless. At any rate, it sells over a quarter million per year so no need to get all paranoid over one incident.

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

So don't extrapolate your experience to brand ratings in general. BTW, Jeep Grand Cherokee is a posh car as well, Comrade. Except it has a major reliability problem. Hint: Anton Yelchin.

My experience is practical corollary of http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/05/are-german-cars-reliable-myth-german-engineering.html

Google can give you any link you want if you search, Comrade. Did you even read the article completely of that link?

Some of the reasons why German cars struggle in J.D. Power’s rankings in the past are entirely trivial and are not related to actual vehicle quality at all says Karl Brauer from Total Car Score.
...

In J.D. Power’s Automotive Performance, Execution & Layout (APEAL) study, which looks at how gratifying a new vehicle is to own and drive, based on owner evaluations, Porsche comes out on top, as the only automaker to get 5/5. Audi, BMW Mercedes and VW all achieve a 4/5 in this survey as well, showing that these cars are no slouch when it comes to performance and execution.

PS: Don't get pinned down by your Jeep Grand Cherokee.

I don't have much to say if you think average is top notch. On your other point, I never gushed over the reliability of Grand Cherokee so your rebuttal is meaningless. At any rate, it sells over a quarter million per year so no need to get all paranoid over one incident.

I never said the Jeep Grand Cherokee was top notch, Comrade. But it is a very expensive car with options. You probably went to worse reliability than any German car including VWs manufactured in Mexico. It may have been one incident but that was a well publicized incident for a model that had a recall for the same reason. And don't forget the reliability issues Toyota faced with their braking.

Hellsangel wrote:What happened to the 300E and 7-series?

goodcitizn wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:What happened to the 300E and 7-series?

Donated the 300E after putting on 680,000 miles! Still have the BMW. Thinking of trading it in later this year.

Hellsangel wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:What happened to the 300E and 7-series?

Donated the 300E after putting on 680,000 miles! Still have the BMW. Thinking of trading it in later this year.

Waiting for Comrade to make some snarky comment about you being the exception that proves the rule.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:
My experience is practical corollary of http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/05/are-german-cars-reliable-myth-german-engineering.html

Google can give you any link you want if you search, Comrade. Did you even read the article completely of that link?

Some of the reasons why German cars struggle in J.D. Power’s rankings in the past are entirely trivial and are not related to actual vehicle quality at all says Karl Brauer from Total Car Score.
...

In J.D. Power’s Automotive Performance, Execution & Layout (APEAL) study, which looks at how gratifying a new vehicle is to own and drive, based on owner evaluations, Porsche comes out on top, as the only automaker to get 5/5. Audi, BMW Mercedes and VW all achieve a 4/5 in this survey as well, showing that these cars are no slouch when it comes to performance and execution.

PS: Don't get pinned down by your Jeep Grand Cherokee.

I don't have much to say if you think average is top notch. On your other point, I never gushed over the reliability of Grand Cherokee so your rebuttal is meaningless. At any rate, it sells over a quarter million per year so no need to get all paranoid over one incident.

I never said the Jeep Grand Cherokee was top notch, Comrade. But it is a very expensive car with options. You probably went to worse reliability than any German car including VWs manufactured in Mexico. It may have been one incident but that was a well publicized incident for a model that had a recall for the same reason. And don't forget the reliability issues Toyota faced with their braking.

I was referring to German quality not the Jeep. Checkout BMW's radiator leaks, an expensive repair,  but they haven't fixed them for 10 years and let's not even bother talking about M-Class or A6.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Radiator leak is a minor problem. Go to junkyard and get a Radiator and replae it yourself.

Upto 100K miles almost all cars are same. Take the BMW logo and replace the Kia logo and you have a BMW car...90% of desis won't know the difference...

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

Google can give you any link you want if you search, Comrade. Did you even read the article completely of that link?


PS: Don't get pinned down by your Jeep Grand Cherokee.

I don't have much to say if you think average is top notch. On your other point, I never gushed over the reliability of Grand Cherokee so your rebuttal is meaningless. At any rate, it sells over a quarter million per year so no need to get all paranoid over one incident.

I never said the Jeep Grand Cherokee was top notch, Comrade. But it is a very expensive car with options. You probably went to worse reliability than any German car including VWs manufactured in Mexico. It may have been one incident but that was a well publicized incident for a model that had a recall for the same reason. And don't forget the reliability issues Toyota faced with their braking.

I was referring to German quality not the Jeep. Checkout BMW's radiator leaks, an expensive repair,  but they haven't fixed them for 10 years and let's not even bother talking about M-Class or A6.

Radiator leak is a minor problem. Go to junkyard and get a Radiator and replae it yourself.

Upto 100K miles almost all cars are same. Take the BMW logo and replace the Kia logo and you have a BMW car...90% of desis won't know the difference...

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Upto 100K miles almost all cars are same. Take the BMW logo and replace the Kia logo and you have a BMW car...90% of desis won't know the difference...

goodcitizn wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:What happened to the 300E and 7-series?

Donated the 300E after putting on 680,000 miles! Still have the BMW. Thinking of trading it in later this year.

Waiting for Comrade to make some snarky comment about you being the exception that proves the rule.

Fuzzy likes the attention by playing the contrarian.