UCC, Triple Talaq: It Is Time To Call The Bluff Of AIMPLB And Fake Secularists

by rawemotions Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:16 pm

by truthbetold Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:49 pm

Raw,

I do not like emotional issues like this being resolved through courts. The case for opposing Triple talaq is good and required. However the right way to deal with that is to create a constituency with in muslim population. A social movement with Muslim women and some progressive muslim men should lead the movement. Then outside supporters can offer further support. Ideally this kind of issues must be politically resolved in legislative arena. But if there is some ground swell for change within muslim community, even a court can step in and move it forward.

It would not be a sensible thing for BJP hindu men (60 year old RSS men) leading this demand. Cause is noble but method is incorrect. Solution: Organize muslim women and men.

by rawemotions Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:37 pm

truthbetold wrote:Raw,

I do not like emotional issues like this being resolved through courts. The case for opposing Triple talaq is good and required. However the right way to deal with that is to create a constituency with in muslim population. A social movement with Muslim women and some progressive muslim men should lead the movement. Then outside supporters can offer further support. Ideally this kind of issues must be politically resolved in legislative arena. But if there is some ground swell for change within muslim community, even a court can step in and move it forward.

It would not be a sensible thing for BJP hindu men (60 year old RSS men) leading this demand. Cause is noble but method is incorrect. Solution: Organize muslim women and men.

Please google BMMA and the Muslim women driven community effort. They have been there for ever, but they have been squelched by the Congress and the Political Islamists who support them. They were also intimidated, by the AIMPLB who claims extra-constitutional authority, where non exists.

India has legislated personal laws, to remove aberrations, when there was a conflict between personal laws and constitution (it reformed the Hindu personal laws once in 1955, and more recently reformed Hindu Women inheritance laws during the UPA administration), so there is a precedence of doing this and quite repeatedly.

Please check my previous posts on the ridiculous response posted by the AIMPLB to a query on banning the triple talaq. It is a shame they are being allowed to peddle such outright misogynist, sexist and medieval views. Their whole purpose is to keep Muslim Women in control, with the threat of a divorce hanging on their head.

Thus the BMMA and community driven effort, needs support. Yes more progressive Muslim men joining the effort is important. But even a high profile Arif Mohammed Khan was not enough to stop Shah Bano. It needs to be in large numbers and the Muslim men are not actively supporting the cause. However the Muslim men in the organization AIMPLB and the Mullahs are opposing it.

BTW Jagannathan is neither BJP or RSS guy. I have been reading his articles for the past 4-5 years. He can be considered as an intellectual who holds right of center views, defends true secularism, and is bold to call out the truth. He mostly comments on economy, and some times on Politics. He has another article where he has criticized the BJP government for its NPA strategy.

by truthbetold Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:08 pm

AIMPLB and Congress will play their votebank politics.

Pseudos, including such psecs, will hide or blame RSS for creating religious tension.

Supreme court ruling on Indian temples including Sabarimala is a different issues. Indian supreme court is not viewed as an enemy by Hindus. In recent years Hindus have accepted many rulings overturning traditional rituals in many temples. Some hindu organizations , including few related to RSS, have opposed those rulings. Hindu society's acceptance shows its confidence in Indian supreme court and some level of social maturity. Remember these changes were demanded by sections of Hindu society.

A large section of Indian muslim community leadership is suspicious of supreme court despite supreme courts efforts to minimize surprises. With congress and AIMPLB pseudos waiting to pounce on BJP and RSS's hard earned anti muslim label, it would be foolish for RSS to be the champion of change in islamic traditions.

My point is while the cause is noble , tactics are wrong. Change in Islam must come from within. Help progressives with in Islam to articulate it and rest of India can support it.

BR Chopra made an excellent film "Nikaah' few decades ago. He named it "talaq, Talaq, Talaq" and got into big troubleand changed it to Nikaah. it is about triple talaq. Listen to this absolutely terrific song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phm2Tk_AkbY

May be times have changed. Why not ask Shabana Azmi, AAmir Khan and Shah Rukh Khan to articulate the demand. May be ask Gulam Nabi Azad, Azzam Khan (SP), and all those pseudos to step up to the plate.

by confuzzled dude Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:46 pm

There is no true separation of church and state. Many republicans in this election want to vote for Trump though they don't like him because of their religion, they want a conservative judge in Supreme Court and this has been going on for decades. So who are the pseudos in this case, Americans. Let's not get started with pro-life, which is another hot button issue in every election

by truthbetold Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:18 pm

CD,

It is always my argument that west does not have a truly secular govt. Removing baby jesus from public square because it offends some religious sentiments is not secularism. It is religious tolerance. Different concept.

Lot of pseudos confuse religious tolerance to secularism.

On the other hand, I do recognize that most western countries do most of their govt work based on ground realities reflected by scientific analysis and data. That practical side is moving in the direction of a secular state. West's foreign policy and some concessions to powerful traditions and religious vote banks limit their transformation to secular states.

While Indian politics are a mess in terms of secular ideas, Indian govt process to a large extent is driven by scientific data when it is not driven by corruption or powerful industrial corporations. Saudi Arabia is an example of a state mired hopelessly in religious governing.

India will take a long time to reach secular state not only because it has to resolve its minority issues but also because of constantly morphing Hindu religion which has a habit of absorbing conflicting logic.

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:45 am

rawemotions wrote:UCC, Triple Talaq: It Is Time To Call The Bluff Of AIMPLB And Fake Secularists

I've not heard of anyone other than the Muslim clergy defending the triple talaq nonsense. Even Congress leaders, those original fake seculars, are making noises on the need for reform.

But here's a koschen. How come the Jains get to starve their kids to death in the name of religion and there's no peep from any of you crusaders for social reform and the uniform civil code? Or are Muslim women's married lives more important to you than Jain kids' lives??

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