falling off my seat laughing

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:05 pm

we were in bombay on a visit from the u.s. it was the 80s. we were passing through on our way to madras, but had wanted to spend a day in bombay.

w's closest friend lived there, and we wanted to meet her. she was a newly-minted i.a.s. officer, and had just returned from the admin staff college in mussoorie, then got married. she's a malayali, and he, a maharashtrian.

we took a taxi to the part of the city given in her address, but the driver didn't know the precise location. we drove around, but failed to find the building. when we saw a few men on the street, we stopped to ask for directions. i pulled out the address and asked a man in pyjamas, "how do we get to this address?"

he asked, "vaat caashTt he is?"

i fell off the seat laughing.

i had lived in madras for 20 years, and had never heard the word caste mentioned.

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:24 pm

they are undoubtedly an important factor in the low standard of living of about one billion people in india.

by chameli Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:54 pm

lucky you were still in that taxi when u fell off laughing ..or you would have been hospitalized and operated "where the sun don't shine "

get with their current names will ya ?.......they are Mumbai and Chennai

This means Chennai is a far more cosmopolitan city than Mumbai ...a statement hard to believe

whereas I am told the locals dont even answer newcomers to the city in any language other than Tamil

not many say" vaaat caaste" unless he/she is a Tamilian ..that's why u didnt hear it in Madras

they have all relocated to Mumbai ha ha

by Nila Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:23 pm

Madrasians carry that some sort of self pride (highly educated self image...u know!) within themselves...they don't have to ask...their background processor would've already scanned and fetched the nearly appropriative data of the caste and creed and Parampara of any individual. It will be too proud for them to ask anything but it is okay to make guesses. (Most of the time it will be only guesses - old processor and outdated data content)

After 3 decades you fell of the chair and you will keep falling off the chair even after many more decades. Please consider safety issues falling of the chair...just saying.

by Merlot Daruwala Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:25 am

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote: when we saw a few men on the street, we stopped to ask for directions. i pulled out the address and asked a man in pyjamas, "how do we get to this address?"

Silly man, you asked a bunch of tourists. If they were Indians, they'd be squatting there, defecating in the open and not lounging around in their jammies.

by Another Brick Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:53 am

you are either making this spit up* or you did not hear him very well, just like you could not hear d n bhonsle, the "dean" of that hospital in Mumbai. it is highly likely that he asked you if it is (dadar/vile parle) eas(h)t or wes(h)t.

* i say that because nobody in MH asks for caste when the query is about address.

by MulaiAzhagi Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:04 pm

====> Another Brick,

You are absloutely correct.

What you say about FF is similar to what happened to V.S. Naiapul.

When Naipaul got off the ship at Bompay port on his first visit to India in 1960, the customs officer seeing Naipaul, an Indian by race asked him whether he brought any "Cheez" which means things in Hindi. The man mistook Naipaul, a Trinidadian to be an Indian citizen who spoke Hindi. The Customs official wanted to know if the Indian who returned from abroad had brought any goods made there so that he could collect any duties. Naipaul who did not know any Hindi heard it as "Have you brought any Cheese?."

So in his gloomy book "Area of Darkness" which portrayed India as one place of a hell, he criticized India as a country which could not make even cheese of decent quality and the only thing the customs official could think of was taking a piece of the cheese Naipaul might have brought into the country.

by Another Brick Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:18 pm

sara bojiji, i know flimflam is at least 68 and suffers from hearing problems, but i had no idea that he has been suffering from that problem for over thirty years.

by Guest Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:22 pm

Get updated. His b'day is a public information now.

by MulaiAzhagi Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:40 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin

Japanese had and still have their untouchables too.

The current economic underdevelopment of India is due to the following.

1. Centuries of subjugation under Muslims who were anti-science.

2. Following Socialism under Nehru and Indira Gandhi.

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:27 pm

MulaiAzhagi wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin

Japanese had and still have their untouchables too.

>> how's that relevant?

The current economic underdevelopment of India is due to the following.

1. Centuries of subjugation under Muslims who were anti-science.

>> why did north indian hindus allow themselves to be subjugated? muslims were not anti-science; otoh, many hindus rejected, and continue to reject science. aren't astrological characterization and forecasts still an important part of determining compatibility in hindu marriage?

2. Following Socialism under Nehru and Indira Gandhi.

>> yes, absolutely on mrs gandhi. her socialism was 100x more harmful than nehru's planned economic development.

on nehru: in the 40s and 50s, i believe, there was considerable evidence, especially from the scandinavian economists, the london school of economics, and even american economists, that a planned, mixed economic system would be the best for a newly-independent nation with a 20% or so literacy rate and a life expectancy of about 40 years.

was mrs gandhi blind? couldn't she see america's rise to the top even as she was nationalizing entire industries? didn't she receive any education on market-based economics from her economic advisers? the conclusion: mrs gandhi was far more concerned with holding on to power than with india's economic development.

final result: mrs gandhi (not nehru) = fail!

final result: the hindu caste system = fail!

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:42 pm

Tracy Whitney wrote:Get updated. His b'day is a public information now.

mrs shirivastav-khare, get updated; information can't be counted like eggs or lehngas can, so it's "His b'day is public information now."

by MulaiAzhagi Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:48 pm

Japanese had and still have their untouchables too.

>> how's that relevant?

===> My point is this: Even a substantial part of the society is forced to do dirty work and be subservient to others, the country could still be an econoimc powerhouse if it does not eschew science, industrialization and free market principles.

Afterall America was still an economic and military superpower when Blacks were under virulent segregation.

The same case with Japan.

Even South Africa under apartheid fared better than India in 1960s.

In fact, if India had adopted the pro business approach earlier, more Dalits would have been educated and living better now because implementing free market policies would have resulted in the need for a better trained workforce.

Regarding the astrology, superstition and all that, have you observed that the religious Hindu Banias are quick to implement the modern technology in their business ventures?

A lot of middle class Hindus use horoscopes for marriage as a face- saving device. It is easy to blame it on the horoscope than to tell someone's parents that they don't want to enter into a marriage alliance.

by garam_kuta Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:59 pm

MulaiAzhagi wrote:Japanese had and still have their untouchables too.

>> how's that relevant?

===> My point is this: Even a substantial part of the society is forced to do dirty work and be subservient to others, the country could still be an econoimc powerhouse if it does not eschew science, industrialization and free market principles.

Afterall America was still an economic and military superpower when Blacks were under virulent segregation.

The same case with Japan.

Even South Africa under apartheid fared better than India in 1960s.

In fact, if India had adopted the pro business approach earlier, more Dalits would have been educated and living better now because implementing free market policies would have resulted in the need for a better trained workforce.

Regarding the astrology, superstition and all that, have you observed that the religious Hindu Banias are quick to implement the modern technology in their business ventures?

A lot of middle class Hindus use horoscopes for marriage as a face- saving device. It is easy to blame it on the horoscope than to tell someone's parents that they don't want to enter into a marriage alliance.

Mullai - Do you believe in KulaKalvi for contemporary living?

by MulaiAzhagi Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:11 pm

Mullai - Do you believe in KulaKalvi for contemporary living?

===> The reality is that a lot of non-brahmins give their kids both modern education and the KulaKalvi as well.

Nadars, Chettiars, Marwadis and other trading communities train their kids how to run their family trade after they come back from school in the evenings.

If M.K.Stalin and Alagiri had not received their Kulakalvi from M.K, they would not be in politics now.

by MulaiAzhagi Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:23 pm

===> Disclaimer

I was only trying to prove FF's claim that the caste system resulted in the low standard of living for a billion people in India.

I gave a counter-example of Japan which has the caste system where millions are untouchables. Even though the Burakhumins in Japan may suffer social discrimination in certain phases of life like marriage etc., their living standards are in no way less than the other Japanese.

I am not advocating a life of misery for anyone simply based on caste.

by MulaiAzhagi Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:34 pm

===> More on the Japanese outcasts

http://www.tofugu.com/2011/11/18/the-burakumin-japans-invisible-race/

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/fl20090120zg.html

http://www.iheu.org/untouchability-japan-discrimination-against-burakumin

http://blhrri.org/blhrri_e/blhrri/buraku.htm

http://www.bookmice.net/darkchilde/japan/burak.html

by MulaiAzhagi Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:35 pm

MulaiAzhagi wrote:===> Disclaimer

I was only trying to prove FF's claim that the caste system resulted in the low standard of living for a billion people in India.

==> Correction.

Should be

I was only trying to disprove FF's claim that the caste system resulted in the low standard of living for a billion people in India.

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