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God and guru

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God and guru Empty God and guru

Post by Seva Lamberdar Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:04 am

Regarding "गुरु ब्रह्मा गुरुविष्णुः गुरुदेव महेश्वरः।गुरु साक्षात्परब्रह्मा तस्मैश्री गुरुवे नमः ।।", there is no scriptural support for this statement indicating human guru (teacher) as God (Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva or Para-Brahma).

The above seems to be a self-serving and fake chant put together by some guru to seek undue importance by talking about human guru as God (Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva or Para-Brahma), considering it is clearly mentioned in the Bhagavad Gita (Ch. 11 - V. 43) by Arjuna (after he acquired vision and wisdom) that God (Krishna) is the greatest / ultimate guru (teacher), implying thus that no human being (including human guru) comes close or is equal to God as guru.
Seva Lamberdar
Seva Lamberdar

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God and guru Empty Re: God and guru

Post by Seva Lamberdar Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:43 am

Any mention or support from secondary Hindu texts (e.g. Smritis, Epics and Puranas etc.) is not sufficient for a teacher / guru to qualify at par or above God (Krishna, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, ParaBrahma or any other name for God), considering especially that the Shrutis (Vedas - Rig, Yajur and Sam, and the Upanisads) show no support for such claim, which certainly is refuted according to the above Gitopanishad / Bhagavad Gita citation (Ch. 11 - V. 43).

Moreover, as the Mimamsa (Purva Mimamsa philosophy) is in favor of upholding the Shrutis over Smritis (including Puranas) in matters of ideological conflict, any support from a Purana to a human guru as God is not admissible religio-philosophically (theologically) because it has no similar support from Shrutis, as explained earlier.
Seva Lamberdar
Seva Lamberdar

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God and guru Empty Re: God and guru

Post by Seva Lamberdar Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:08 pm

Let's consider some of the attributes of Brahman (God) in the following, as an example of Brahman as Vishnu in Ramanuja's Visistadvaita (qualified non-dualism), which show clearly that no human can achieve the status as guru matching Brahman (or any other name for God: Brahma, Vishnu or Shiva).

'Brahman's knowledge is immediate, and is not dependent on the organs of sense. He is all-knowing and has direct intuition of all. Brahman is the supreme personality, while the individuals are personal in an imperfect way. Personality implies the power to plan and realize one's purposes. God is perfect personality, since he contains all experience within himself and is dependent on nothing external to him. The differences necessary to personality are contained within himself. The most prominent qualities of God are knowledge, power and love (karuna). Out of his love, God has created the world, established laws, and helps constantly all who seek to attain perfection. While each quality by itself is different from the others, they all belong to one identity and do not divide its integrity of being. The Lord's connection with them is natural (svabhavika) and eternal (sanatana). These attributes are said to be abstract, as distinct from matter and souls, which are also called attributes of God. Isvara is the support of his own essential qualities, as well as those of the objects dependent on him. The supreme has "a divine form peculiar to itself, not of the stuff prakrti and not due to karma."'

Ref.: "Vaisnava philosophies of Ramanuja, Madhva, Nimbarka, Vallabha, Caitanya, Bhaskara and Yadavaprakasa," 2004, http://www.oocities.org/lamberdar/vaisnava-philosophies.html
Seva Lamberdar
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God and guru Empty Re: God and guru

Post by Seva Lamberdar Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:44 am

(1)  Brahman (God) according to Samkara (Advaita):

" Brahman, free from space, attributes, motion, fruition and difference, being in the highest sense and without a second. It transcends the opposition of permanence and change, whole and part, relative and absolute, finite and infinite, which are all based on the oppositions of experience. "

Ref.:  "Not everyone and everything is same or equal to Brahman (God) in Advaita:
Brahman according to Samkara's Advaita",     http://web.archive.org/web/20091026194848/geocities.com/lamberdar/brahman_absolute.html


(2)  Brahman (God)  according to Madhava  (Dvaita):

"There are three entities existing from all eternity to all eternity, fundamentally different from one another, which are God, soul and the world (including humans). Though these are all real and eternal, the latter two are subordinate to God and dependent on him. Independent reality is Brahman, the absolute creator of the universe. We can know his nature through the study of the Vedas, and so his nature is not indefinable. When the Supreme is said to be indefinable, all that is meant that a complete knowledge of him is difficult to acquire. Brahman is unsurpassed in excellence and without an equal, since it penetrates everywhere. The attributes of God are absolute in their character and so do not limit him. Brahman possesses every kind of perfection. He is identified with Vishnu, and is said to direct by his will the world and all that is in it as an absolute ruler. He creates and destroys the world again and again. He is endowed with a supernatural body and is regarded as transcendent to the world as well as immanent, since he is the inner ruler (antaryamin) of the souls. He manifests himself in various forms (vyuhas), appears periodically in incarnations (avataras), and is said to be mystically present in the sacred images. He creates, maintains and destroys the universe, imparts knowledge, manifests himself in several ways, condemns some and redeems others."

Ref.:  "Vaisnava philosophies of Ramanuja, Madhva, Nimbarka, Vallabha, Caitanya, Bhaskara and Yadavaprakasa" (2004), http://www.oocities.org/lamberdar/vaisnava-philosophies.html

(3)  Brahman (God) as Shiva, according to Saiva Siddhanta:

"The supreme reality is called Siva (or Shiva), and is regarded as beginningless, uncaused, free from defects, the all-doer and all-knower, who frees the individual soul from the bonds which fetter them. The formula of saccidananda (sat-chit-ananda) is interpreted as implying the eight attributes of self-existence, essential purity, intuitive wisdom, infinite intelligence, freedom from all bonds, infinite grace or love, omnipotence, and infinite bliss. The world is undergoing change. Siva is everlasting, since he is not limited by time. He is omnipresent."

Ref.: "The doctrines of Saivism and Saktism" (2004),    http://www.oocities.org/lamberdar/saivism-saktism.html
Seva Lamberdar
Seva Lamberdar

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God and guru Empty Re: God and guru

Post by Seva Lamberdar Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:18 am

Incidentally, the Bhagavad Gita appears to be in favor of less number of holy rituals religiously for the sake of spiritual well-being in this world and moksha later,

as the Bhagavad Gita suggests in verses 45-46 of chapter 18:

"They all, whatever their activity or duty, attain perfection when they find joy in their work. Hear how a man / woman attains perfection and finds joy in his / her work." (BG: 18.45)

"A man (or a woman) attains perfection when his (her) work (whatever it might be) is worship of (or in dedication to) God, from whom all things come and who is in all." (BG: 18.46)

Seva Lamberdar
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