Re: Nizam's generous side and love for books

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:48 pm

charvaka wrote:
kinnera wrote:Someone writes something and you take it as a gospel? How foolish can that be? Wonder if you have been to hyd even once in your life. You read some article somewhere and claim to be an authority, even challenging the ones who grew up in that culture. Go ask any one of the millions of hyderabadis if they ever heard of anything called 'dakni', that the language that they talk 24/7 is called 'dakhni'. They'll give you a 'what the heck are you talking abt. u crazy?' look.
Max gave some excellent advice to Rashmun the other day in this connection.

you are a prime example of how our education system does not foster
critical thinking skills. if something is printed somewhere, that
doesn't mean it is automatically true. you have to be particularly
careful in this internet era when any monkey with an internet connection
and a keyboard can wreak havoc on hapless individuals like you.

True. This fella got no 'viveka buddhi'. He's a 'moorkha' of the first kind.

by charvaka Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:50 pm

kinnera wrote:
charvaka wrote:
kinnera wrote:Someone writes something and you take it as a gospel? How foolish can that be? Wonder if you have been to hyd even once in your life. You read some article somewhere and claim to be an authority, even challenging the ones who grew up in that culture. Go ask any one of the millions of hyderabadis if they ever heard of anything called 'dakni', that the language that they talk 24/7 is called 'dakhni'. They'll give you a 'what the heck are you talking abt. u crazy?' look.
Max gave some excellent advice to Rashmun the other day in this connection.

you are a prime example of how our education system does not foster
critical thinking skills. if something is printed somewhere, that
doesn't mean it is automatically true. you have to be particularly
careful in this internet era when any monkey with an internet connection
and a keyboard can wreak havoc on hapless individuals like you.

True. This fella got no 'viveka buddhi'. He's a 'moorkha' of the first kind.

https://such.forumotion.com/t5858-wise-thoughts

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:51 pm

Rashmun wrote:

in my opinion, it is wrong to make fun of any language which is dear to the hearts of many people.

i wasn't making fun of any language. i was making fun of you. in my twenty odd years of living in india, i'd never heard of this language of which you have cut-and-pasted tomes and occasionally written about called dakhini. and i bet i've led a more cosmopolitan life than you. that's evident from the fact that you don't know any other indian languages besides english and hindi and i know one more than you. and if i haven't heard of it (and nobody else here seems to have either) you must be making it up at worst, or painting some obscuring name as if it is a mainstream usage at best, just to gather support for your own peculiar integro-synthesis agenda. hence the leg pulling and mirth making.

hope that helps.

by charvaka Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:58 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

in my opinion, it is wrong to make fun of any language which is dear to the hearts of many people.

i wasn't making fun of any language. i was making fun of you. in my twenty odd years of living in india, i'd never heard of this language of which you have cut-and-pasted tomes and occasionally written about called dakhini. and i bet i've led a more cosmopolitan life than you. that's evident from the fact that you don't know any other indian languages besides english and hindi and i know one more than you. and if i haven't heard of it (and nobody else here seems to have either) you must be making it up at worst, or painting some obscuring name as if it is a mainstream usage at best, just to gather support for your own peculiar integro-synthesis agenda. hence the leg pulling and mirth making.

hope that helps.

The duckini-cluckini story is like a soap opera. Rashmun makes it up as he goes along. When writing episode 13, he doesn't know where episode 127 is going to go. He really hasn't thought the whole thing through. That is why we had that confusing episide where Hindi and Urdu first traveled south, had intercourse in the south and their child returned to the north, and immediately after, their child was actually born in the north, traveled south and got polished there before returning north.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:01 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

in my opinion, it is wrong to make fun of any language which is dear to the hearts of many people.

i wasn't making fun of any language. i was making fun of you. in my twenty odd years of living in india, i'd never heard of this language of which you have cut-and-pasted tomes and occasionally written about called dakhini. and i bet i've led a more cosmopolitan life than you. that's evident from the fact that you don't know any other indian languages besides english and hindi and i know one more than you. and if i haven't heard of it (and nobody else here seems to have either) you must be making it up at worst, or painting some obscuring name as if it is a mainstream usage at best, just to gather support for your own peculiar integro-synthesis agenda. hence the leg pulling and mirth making.

hope that helps.

i have spent several years of my life in the most multi lingual city in India--Bangalore. On this subject, i speak from personal experience.

by charvaka Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:02 pm

Rashmun wrote:i have spent several years of my life in the most multi lingual city in India--Bangalore. On this subject, i speak from personal experience.

Without letting any of those languages rub off on you. Remarkable personal experience, that!

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:05 pm

Rashmun wrote:

i have spent several years of my life in the most multi lingual city in India--Bangalore. On this subject, i speak from personal experience.

so what? you didn't even make an attempt to learn kannada or try to find out about something that's deeply southern indian, like say carnatic music. more's the pity. you must have lived in a northindian ghetto.

i am originally from rural tamil nadu and know a reasonable amount of hindi and know as much about hindustani music as i know about carnatic music.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:08 pm

Visitors from north India’s Hindi belt are often puzzled by the
contradictory signals they get about Hindi in south India. On the one
hand, they feel that every one understands them in the street--rikshawalas,
shopkeepers, bus conductors and so on. Some of these visitors, like the
Ugly American, patronizingly approve that the natives are speaking a
tolerably understandable Hindi!

On the other hand, they find strong anti-Hindi feelings among the
middle-class educated people. They conclude that actually Hindi is
understood and ‘accepted’ by the common man in the south but it is being
opposed by the ‘vested‘ interests who want to keep English alive for a
better edge in the job market. So English, and for the leftists among
them ‘imperialism’, is the enemy and they try the ‘Angrezi Hatao’
movement. Of course none of these ‘movements’ make a dent in the
non-Hindi regions.

The problem with these people is that they think that Hindi is
‘their’ language, which is inherently so good that the rest of India has
accepted it as the national language. They endlessly quote
Rajgopalachari or Acharya Suniti Kumar Chattopadhyay for this purpose.
In fact they are again puzzled that these stalwarts of Hindi later
denounced Hindi chauvinism.

They fail to understand that the ‘Hindi’ that they hear in the South
is actually Dakhni and that it has a much older literary history and in
fact was the source of inspiration for modern Hindi to emerge as a
literary language. The ‘lingua franca’ of India is not ‘their’ Hindi but
the street Hindi that evolved from Dakhni and reached the Indian masses,
through the Parsi theatre and the Bombay film industry. It is ‘their’
highly Sanskritized Hindi that is opposed all over the non-Hindi region.
In fact, Acharya Suniti Kumar Chattopadhyay, in his article ‘Bharater
Rashtra Bhasha Chalti Hindi’ even proposed Bombay Hindi as a national
language whose ‘grammar can be written on a post card’!....

The true inheritor of Dakhni is the language of the common people,
often called Hindustani, which the vast majority of the working people,
particularly in urban India, understand. Its literary tradition
continued in modern India through Parsi theatre, Hindi theatre in
general, and the Bombay cinema and Hindi film lyrics. Some authors in
Hindi still write in people’s language and the ‘chap’ literature
(religious tracts like Kabir Ke Dohe) sold on the pavement and rural
weekly markets and popular magazines still use this language. This
language carries the common composite cultural tradition of India, a
culture of love, assimilation and tolerance.

http://www.bangalorenotes.com/dakhni.htm

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:13 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

i have spent several years of my life in the most multi lingual city in India--Bangalore. On this subject, i speak from personal experience.

so what? you didn't even make an attempt to learn kannada or try to find out about something that's deeply southern indian, like say carnatic music. more's the pity. you must have lived in a northindian ghetto.

i am originally from rural tamil nadu and know a reasonable amount of hindi and know as much about hindustani music as i know about carnatic music.

There was no need to learn Kannada because i could get by with my knowledge of Hindustani which is an important link language used in the city of Bangalore. Furthermore, it is more difficult to learn a new language as an adult than as a child. Additionally, some people have a knack of picking up new languages quickly.

It may also be a matter of interest. I picked up more Tamil in a few weeks in Tamil Nadu than in a few years in Bangalore. On Tamilian told me very confidently that if you would have spent three months with us continuously you would have been communicating in Tamil.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:16 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

i have spent several years of my life in the most multi lingual city in India--Bangalore. On this subject, i speak from personal experience.

so what? you didn't even make an attempt to learn kannada or try to find out about something that's deeply southern indian, like say carnatic music. more's the pity. you must have lived in a northindian ghetto.

i am originally from rural tamil nadu and know a reasonable amount of hindi and know as much about hindustani music as i know about carnatic music.

There was no need to learn Kannada because i could get by with my knowledge of Hindustani which is an important link language used in the city of Bangalore. Furthermore, it is more difficult to learn a new language as an adult than as a child. Additionally, some people have a knack of picking up new languages quickly.

It may also be a matter of interest. I picked up more Tamil in a few weeks in Tamil Nadu than in a few years in Bangalore. On Tamilian told me very confidently that if you would have spent three months with us continuously you would have been communicating in Tamil.

also, i am not aware of the existence of any north indian ghetto in bangalore.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:19 pm

[quote="Rashmun"]

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

There was no need to learn Kannada because i could get by with my knowledge of Hindustani which is an important link language used in the city of Bangalore. Furthermore, it is more difficult to learn a new language as an adult than as a child. Additionally, some people have a knack of picking up new languages quickly.

It may also be a matter of interest. I picked up more Tamil in a few weeks in Tamil Nadu than in a few years in Bangalore. On Tamilian told me very confidently that if you would have spent three months with us continuously you would have been communicating in Tamil.

South indians shld stop communicating in hindi or english with others living in their respective states. This way, the suckers will be forced to learn the local language.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:20 pm

[quote="kinnera"]

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

There was no need to learn Kannada because i could get by with my knowledge of Hindustani which is an important link language used in the city of Bangalore. Furthermore, it is more difficult to learn a new language as an adult than as a child. Additionally, some people have a knack of picking up new languages quickly.

It may also be a matter of interest. I picked up more Tamil in a few weeks in Tamil Nadu than in a few years in Bangalore. On Tamilian told me very confidently that if you would have spent three months with us continuously you would have been communicating in Tamil.

South indians shld stop communicating in hindi or english with others living in their respective states. This way, the suckers will be forced to learn the local language.

Dakhini is a South Indian language. Only an ignoramus will claim otherwise.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:23 pm

[quote="Rashmun"]

kinnera wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

There was no need to learn Kannada because i could get by with my knowledge of Hindustani which is an important link language used in the city of Bangalore. Furthermore, it is more difficult to learn a new language as an adult than as a child. Additionally, some people have a knack of picking up new languages quickly.

It may also be a matter of interest. I picked up more Tamil in a few weeks in Tamil Nadu than in a few years in Bangalore. On Tamilian told me very confidently that if you would have spent three months with us continuously you would have been communicating in Tamil.

South indians shld stop communicating in hindi or english with others living in their respective states. This way, the suckers will be forced to learn the local language.

Dakhini is a South Indian language. Only an ignoramus will claim otherwise.

Moorkha sikhamani! Kannada is the local language of B'lore. You shld've learned that.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:25 pm

Rashmun:Sasthi, as i understand your home town is Bangalore. Would you agree
that the common man in Bangalore like autowallahs and taxi drivers,
vegetable and fruit vendors, security guards, servants, small
shopkeepers, barbers, small restaurant owners and waiters typically know
the hindi/hindustani language?

Sasthi:Most of the common B'lore ppl converse fluently in Hindi. For the matter of fact...Hindi is a very local language.

Rashmun: That was also my experience in Bangalore. Thanks.

https://such.forumotion.com/t5875-is-hindi-the-common-language-of-south-indian-students-in-iit-madras#46388

by charvaka Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:26 pm

Rashmun wrote:There was no need to learn Kannada because i could get by with my knowledge of Hindustani

There was no need to sing praises of the communal traitor the Nizam. There was no need to shoot your mouth about Telugu and Sanskrit grammar, neither of which you know to any meaningful extent. But you had an interest in doing those things. You had no interest in learning any southern Indian language while living in Bangalore, but you keep starting threads about southern Indian languages ad nauseam. Is it because you prefer to operate from the vantage point of ignorance?

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:27 pm

[quote="kinnera"]

Rashmun wrote:
kinnera wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

There was no need to learn Kannada because i could get by with my knowledge of Hindustani which is an important link language used in the city of Bangalore. Furthermore, it is more difficult to learn a new language as an adult than as a child. Additionally, some people have a knack of picking up new languages quickly.

It may also be a matter of interest. I picked up more Tamil in a few weeks in Tamil Nadu than in a few years in Bangalore. On Tamilian told me very confidently that if you would have spent three months with us continuously you would have been communicating in Tamil.

South indians shld stop communicating in hindi or english with others living in their respective states. This way, the suckers will be forced to learn the local language.

Dakhini is a South Indian language. Only an ignoramus will claim otherwise.

Moorkha sikhamani! Kannada is the local language of B'lore. You shld've learned that.

Read the words of Sasthi, who is a Kannadiga and whose home city is Bangalore, and shed your ignorance.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:28 pm

charvaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:There was no need to learn Kannada because i could get by with my knowledge of Hindustani
There was no need to sing praises of the communal traitor the Nizam. There was no need to shoot your mouth about Telugu and Sanskrit grammar, neither of which you know to any meaningful extent. But you had an interest in doing those things. You had no interest in learning any southern Indian language while living in Bangalore, but you keep starting threads about southern Indian languages ad nauseam. Is it because you prefer to operate from the vantage point of ignorance?

I did have an interest in learning one south indian language while i was in bangalore. in fact i contemplated getting a tutor to teach me this south indian language. but that south indian language was not Kannada.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:34 pm

Rashmun wrote:Rashmun:Sasthi, as i understand your home town is Bangalore. Would you agree
that the common man in Bangalore like autowallahs and taxi drivers,
vegetable and fruit vendors, security guards, servants, small
shopkeepers, barbers, small restaurant owners and waiters typically know
the hindi/hindustani language?

Sasthi:Most of the common B'lore ppl converse fluently in Hindi. For the matter of fact...Hindi is a very local language.

Rashmun: That was also my experience in Bangalore. Thanks.

https://such.forumotion.com/t5875-is-hindi-the-common-language-of-south-indian-students-in-iit-madras#46388

I didn't deny that. Ppl of other south indian states should be like tamilians. They shld refuse to speak to others in any language other than the local south indian language. That's only when others will learn the local language.

"I picked up more Tamil in a few weeks in Tamil Nadu than in a few years
in Bangalore. On Tamilian told me very confidently that if you would
have spent three months with us continuously you would have been
communicating in Tamil."

Necessity is the mother of all learning. The reason you picked up more tamil in a few weeks in TN than a few years in B'lore is because you were forced to. Nothing more than that. The confidence of the tamilian who said that if you would've spent three months with them continuously you would've been communicating in tamil comes from that. If the locals spoke to you in hindi, you would've cared less to learn tamil. All south indians need to emulate tamilians. Seriously!

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:37 pm

kinnera wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Rashmun:Sasthi, as i understand your home town is Bangalore. Would you agree
that the common man in Bangalore like autowallahs and taxi drivers,
vegetable and fruit vendors, security guards, servants, small
shopkeepers, barbers, small restaurant owners and waiters typically know
the hindi/hindustani language?

Sasthi:Most of the common B'lore ppl converse fluently in Hindi. For the matter of fact...Hindi is a very local language.

Rashmun: That was also my experience in Bangalore. Thanks.

https://such.forumotion.com/t5875-is-hindi-the-common-language-of-south-indian-students-in-iit-madras#46388

I didn't deny that. Ppl of other south indian states should be like tamilians. They shld refuse to speak to others in any language other than the local south indian language. That's only when others will learn the local language.

"I picked up more Tamil in a few weeks in Tamil Nadu than in a few years
in Bangalore. On Tamilian told me very confidently that if you would
have spent three months with us continuously you would have been
communicating in Tamil."

Necessity is the mother of all learning. The reason you picked up more tamil in a few weeks in TN than a few years in B'lore is because you were forced to. Nothing more than that. The confidence of the tamilian who said that if you would've spent three months with them continuously you would've been communicating in tamil comes from that. If the locals spoke to you in hindi, you would've cared less to learn tamil. All south indians need to emulate tamilians. Seriously!

the person who told me that i would pick up tamil in three months if i stayed continuously in TN knew that i had a vested interest in learning Tamil.

by charvaka Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:40 pm

Rashmun wrote:in fact i contemplated getting a tutor to teach me this south indian language.

You didn't merely contemplate writing tons of posts about things you have personal understanding of (e.g. the communal nature of the Nizam, Telugu and Sanskrit grammar, etc.) You did something about those topics. If only you had a real interest in learning that southern Indian language, you would have been able to learn it in Bangalore even without a formal tutor.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:42 pm

charvaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:in fact i contemplated getting a tutor to teach me this south indian language.
You didn't merely contemplate writing tons of posts about things you have personal understanding of (e.g. the communal nature of the Nizam, Telugu and Sanskrit grammar, etc.) You did something about those topics. If only you had a real interest in learning that southern Indian language, you would have been able to learn it in Bangalore even without a formal tutor.

I did pick up certain words and phrases of that language. Enough to serve my purpose.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:53 pm

kinnera wrote:

South indians shld stop communicating in hindi or english with others living in their respective states. This way, the suckers will be forced to learn the local language.

this after all the years i was crying myself hoarse on sulekha! yippideedoodah! you now know the source of tamilian stubornness.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:56 pm

Rashmun wrote:

There was no need to learn Kannada because i could get by with my knowledge of Hindustani which is an important link language used in the city of Bangalore. Furthermore, it is more difficult to learn a new language as an adult than as a child. Additionally, some people have a knack of picking up new languages quickly.

It may also be a matter of interest. I picked up more Tamil in a few weeks in Tamil Nadu than in a few years in Bangalore. On Tamilian told me very confidently that if you would have spent three months with us continuously you would have been communicating in Tamil.

this is why everybody should summarily reject your claims of wanting to integrate and synthesize. you want nothing of the sort. you just want all indians to learn hindi. your ONLY agenda here. everything else is just cover for this one thing. you stand revealed as a single point agenda man. and i am glad we had this conversation. thank you.

go learn to speak, read, and write one (any one) dravidian language fluently. then we'll take your intentions more seriously. until then no dice. NO DICE.
age is just a cover. i learned hindi as an adult. you can learn tamil as an adult. you have reason to do so. go take care of business instead of copy pasting.

by charvaka Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:00 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
kinnera wrote:

South indians shld stop communicating in hindi or english with others living in their respective states. This way, the suckers will be forced to learn the local language.

this after all the years i was crying myself hoarse on sulekha! yippideedoodah! you now know the source of tamilian stubornness.

The unraveling of Rashmun in front of our eyes may have something to do with how northindian attitudes toward the language issue are perceived by those southern Indians who don't care deeply about the linguistic divide. When "live and let live" attitudes are confronted by "kill or die trying to kill" attitudes, the former group hardens in its opposition to the latter. This is why attitudes like Rashmun's are dangerous to the unity of India which is rooted in its magnificent diversity.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:03 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

There was no need to learn Kannada because i could get by with my knowledge of Hindustani which is an important link language used in the city of Bangalore. Furthermore, it is more difficult to learn a new language as an adult than as a child. Additionally, some people have a knack of picking up new languages quickly.

It may also be a matter of interest. I picked up more Tamil in a few weeks in Tamil Nadu than in a few years in Bangalore. On Tamilian told me very confidently that if you would have spent three months with us continuously you would have been communicating in Tamil.

this is why everybody should summarily reject your claims of wanting to integrate and synthesize. you want nothing of the sort. you just want all indians to learn hindi. your ONLY agenda here. everything else is just cover for this one thing. you stand revealed as a single point agenda man. and i am glad we had this conversation. thank you.

go learn to speak, read, and write one (any one) dravidian language fluently. then we'll take your intentions more seriously. until then no dice. NO DICE.

Sorry i want one link language. i don't want north indians like me to be inconvenienced by a few obdurate tamilians who do not learn hindi either from personal choice or because of incorrect state govt policies and then who come to me and ask me to act as interpreter with the security guard who speaks bengali, assamese, and hindi. this actually happened in bangalore. if the security guard can know three languages, then so can educated tamilians. It is idiotic on the part of educated tamilians to expect a poorly educated or uneducated person from north-east or nepal, who is working as a security guard in Bangalore, to communicate with them in english or in tamil.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:06 pm

charvaka wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
kinnera wrote:

South indians shld stop communicating in hindi or english with others living in their respective states. This way, the suckers will be forced to learn the local language.

this after all the years i was crying myself hoarse on sulekha! yippideedoodah! you now know the source of tamilian stubornness.
The unraveling of Rashmun in front of our eyes may have something to do with how northindian attitudes toward the language issue are perceived by those southern Indians who don't care deeply about the linguistic divide. When "live and let live" attitudes are confronted by "kill or die trying to kill" attitudes, the former group hardens in its opposition to the latter. This is why attitudes like Rashmun's are dangerous to the unity of India which is rooted in its magnificent diversity.

Charvaka you have already been exposed as a communal and regionalist bigot on quite a few occasions now. You may keep whining as much as you like though.

by charvaka Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:12 pm

Rashmun wrote:
charvaka wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
kinnera wrote:

South indians shld stop communicating in hindi or english with others living in their respective states. This way, the suckers will be forced to learn the local language.

this after all the years i was crying myself hoarse on sulekha! yippideedoodah! you now know the source of tamilian stubornness.
The unraveling of Rashmun in front of our eyes may have something to do with how northindian attitudes toward the language issue are perceived by those southern Indians who don't care deeply about the linguistic divide. When "live and let live" attitudes are confronted by "kill or die trying to kill" attitudes, the former group hardens in its opposition to the latter. This is why attitudes like Rashmun's are dangerous to the unity of India which is rooted in its magnificent diversity.

Charvaka you have already been exposed as a communal and regionalist bigot on quite a few occasions now. You may keep whining as much as you like though.

Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies
his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then
ascribed to the outside world, usually to other people. Thus, projection
involves imagining or projecting the belief that others originate those feelings.^[1]

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:13 pm

charvaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
charvaka wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
kinnera wrote:

South indians shld stop communicating in hindi or english with others living in their respective states. This way, the suckers will be forced to learn the local language.

this after all the years i was crying myself hoarse on sulekha! yippideedoodah! you now know the source of tamilian stubornness.
The unraveling of Rashmun in front of our eyes may have something to do with how northindian attitudes toward the language issue are perceived by those southern Indians who don't care deeply about the linguistic divide. When "live and let live" attitudes are confronted by "kill or die trying to kill" attitudes, the former group hardens in its opposition to the latter. This is why attitudes like Rashmun's are dangerous to the unity of India which is rooted in its magnificent diversity.

Charvaka you have already been exposed as a communal and regionalist bigot on quite a few occasions now. You may keep whining as much as you like though.
Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies
his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then
ascribed to the outside world, usually to other people. Thus, projection
involves imagining or projecting the belief that others originate those feelings.^[1]

Thank you. This psychological projection is what you are doing now.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:14 pm

Rashmun wrote: It is idiotic on the part of educated tamilians to expect a poorly educated or uneducated person from north-east or nepal, who is working as a security guard in Bangalore, to communicate with them in english or in tamil.

poorly educated tamilians in dharavi have been learning hindi for a millenia now. the nepali guard can learn kannada if he wants to survive in bangalore.

eta: this discussion though is neither about nepali guards nor dharavi slum dwellers. poor folks always do what is necessary for survival. it's about educated northindians like you who have the opportunity to learn a new language but don't because of your obstinacy. and you of all people have the absolute need to learn tamil. it's not just a choice anymore. do it pronto.

by charvaka Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:20 pm

Rashmun wrote:i don't want north indians like me to be inconvenienced by a few obdurate tamilians who do not learn hindi either from personal choice or because of incorrect state govt policies and then who come to me and ask me to act as interpreter with the security guard who speaks bengali, assamese, and hindi. this actually happened in bangalore.

If you didn't want you and your ilk to be inconvenienced, I hope you advised the Nepali security guard to learn Kannada pronto. It is his livelihood at stake, not the educated Tamilian's.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:20 pm

i've been cussing myself for letting myself be drawn into this perpetual and fruitless discussion. but i finally got one reward however feeble it might be. the sentence that kinnera wrote is worth all my trouble.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:20 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote: It is idiotic on the part of educated tamilians to expect a poorly educated or uneducated person from north-east or nepal, who is working as a security guard in Bangalore, to communicate with them in english or in tamil.

poorly educated tamilians in dharavi have been learning hindi for a millenia now. the nepali guard can learn kannada if he wants to survive in bangalore.

some of them, especially those who spent their childhood in Bangalore, know kannada and some of them don't. The problem in this case was the tamilians did not even know kannada. they only knew english and tamil. it is idiotic for them to expect security guards from nepal or north-east to communicate with them in english or tamil.
in the incident i described the security guard from assam knew three languages: assamese, bengali, and hindi. even if he knew a fourth language--kannada--he would have been unable to communicate with my tamil colleague.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:24 pm

forget about poor tamilians, nepali security guards, kannada waiters at restaurants, and maharashtrian bus drivers. let's talk about you rashmun. when will you learn tamil?

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:26 pm

rashmun you need tamil, the language that is going to link you to many grandmothers, grandfathers, chittappas, periappas, aththais, and athimbers who won't know a lick of hindi. get to it NOW. english will work but if you want to get to know them well, you know what you need to do.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:54 pm

charvaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:i don't want north indians like me to be inconvenienced by a few obdurate tamilians who do not learn hindi either from personal choice or because of incorrect state govt policies and then who come to me and ask me to act as interpreter with the security guard who speaks bengali, assamese, and hindi. this actually happened in bangalore.
If you didn't want you and your ilk to be inconvenienced, I hope you advised the Nepali security guard to learn Kannada pronto. It is his livelihood at stake, not the educated Tamilian's.

in the example i gave, the security guard was from assam and he knew hindi, bengali, and assamese. and the tamil guy knew english and hindi. knowing kannada would not have helped the security guard to communicate with a tamilian who only knew english and tamil. the very fact that the guy from assam was able to get employed in bangalore without knowing kannada should tell you something. he would not have obtained the job of a security guard in bangalore if he did not know hindi and only knew bengali and assamese.

by Kayalvizhi Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:59 pm

>> the very fact that the guy from assam was able to get employed in bangalore without knowing kannada should tell you something.

Yes it is telling that Karnataka is under Hindian army occupation.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:03 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:forget about poor tamilians, nepali security guards, kannada waiters at restaurants, and maharashtrian bus drivers. let's talk about you rashmun. when will you learn tamil?

i know enough words and phrases in tamil to serve my purpose. also, once i started listening to tamil carefully, i realized that many of the words were familiar because they are also used in hindi. words like shaabaash (congratulations) and raatri (for night) and svarga (for heaven) for instance. (the typical word for night in hindi is raat, but raatri is a well accepted if slightly esoteric synonym for raat.) I find it peculiar that the word for heaven in tamil is of sanskrit origin.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:06 pm

Kayalvizhi wrote:>> the very fact that the guy from assam was able to get employed in bangalore without knowing kannada should tell you something.

Yes it is telling that Karnataka is under Hindian army occupation.

Dakhini, a variant of Hindi, has a long and rich tradition in the linguistic history of Karnataka.

by Kayalvizhi Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:09 pm

Rashmun you said you understand some Tamil, Do you understand this:

en thamizai pazhiththaanai thuNdaakki veddi uramaaki

vaNdaadum poo malara vaipoom nanngal. - Paavaenthar Barathi Thasan

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:10 pm

then you are already well on your way. persist and get fluent. it will do you good.

someone mentioned the other day that literary telugu is very sanskritized but not colloquial telugu. in tamil it is exactly the other way around. words like swargam are very colloquial and somewhat brahmanical tamil. you'd never see that word used in great literary works from the sangam era, sillapadikAram, or the kambarAmAyaNam etc.

by Kayalvizhi Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:12 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Kayalvizhi wrote:>> the very fact that the guy from assam was able to get employed in bangalore without knowing kannada should tell you something.

Yes it is telling that Karnataka is under Hindian army occupation.

Dakhini, a variant of Hindi, has a long and rich tradition in the linguistic history of Karnataka.

As usual you say something totally unrelated to my post.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:13 pm

Kayalvizhi wrote:Rashmun you said you understand some Tamil, Do you understand this:

en thamizai pazhiththaanai thuNdaakki veddi uramaaki

vaNdaadum poo malara vaipoom nanngal. - Paavaenthar Barathi Thasan

i said i know some words and phrases of tamil. unfortunately i do not know enough tamil to have a conversation in tamil.
and i do not understand what you have written.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:14 pm

Kayalvizhi wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Kayalvizhi wrote:>> the very fact that the guy from assam was able to get employed in bangalore without knowing kannada should tell you something.

Yes it is telling that Karnataka is under Hindian army occupation.

Dakhini, a variant of Hindi, has a long and rich tradition in the linguistic history of Karnataka.

As usual you say something totally unrelated to my post.

in fact it is you who posted something totally unrelated to my post. my post exposed the idiocy and foolishness in your post.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:26 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:then you are already well on your way. persist and get fluent. it will do you good.

someone mentioned the other day that literary telugu is very sanskritized but not colloquial telugu. in tamil it is exactly the other way around. words like swargam are very colloquial and somewhat brahmanical tamil. you'd never see that word used in great literary works from the sangam era, sillapadikAram, or the kambarAmAyaNam etc.

you cannot deny that many important works in literary tamil use highly sanskritised tamil. examples are the works of subramanya bharati and vedanta desika.

by charvaka Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:30 pm

Yay! We are back to Weekend Linguistics. Crisis averted.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:31 pm

Kayalvizhi wrote:Rashmun you said you understand some Tamil, Do you understand this:

en thamizai pazhiththaanai thuNdaakki veddi uramaaki

vaNdaadum poo malara vaipoom nanngal. - Paavaenthar Barathi Thasan

really? pAventhar wrote that? can you give me a reference to the collection you got that from. i have to read this.

for rashmun's benefit a rough translation: "he who insulted my tamil, we shall dice, mince and make manure out of him; and use it (the manure) to make a nectar filled flower plant bloom."
(and this last bit is the hardest part to translate because it is a recurring theme in tamil poetry but it doesn't translate well in english). nectar filled flower as a translation for the phrase vaNdaadum poo is rather weak. the phrase actually calls to one's imagination a picture of a honey bee hovering over a flower.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:32 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i've been cussing myself for letting myself be drawn into this perpetual and fruitless discussion. but i finally got one reward however feeble it might be. the sentence that kinnera wrote is worth all my trouble.

LOL, Max.

Charu's analyis above was right on spot.

"The unraveling of Rashmun in front of our eyes may have something to do
with how northindian attitudes toward the language issue are perceived
by those southern Indians who don't care deeply about the linguistic
divide. When "live and let live" attitudes are confronted by "kill or
die trying to kill" attitudes, the former group hardens in its
opposition to the latter. This is why attitudes like Rashmun's are
dangerous to the unity of India which is rooted in its magnificent
diversity."

The sucker preaches about integration, synthesis and stuff like that, wants all south indians to learn hindi, but he himself doesn't care to learn kannada even after living in b'lore for years! What a loser! *puke!*

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:33 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:then you are already well on your way. persist and get fluent. it will do you good.

someone mentioned the other day that literary telugu is very sanskritized but not colloquial telugu. in tamil it is exactly the other way around. words like swargam are very colloquial and somewhat brahmanical tamil. you'd never see that word used in great literary works from the sangam era, sillapadikAram, or the kambarAmAyaNam etc.

you cannot deny that many important works in literary tamil use highly sanskritised tamil. examples are the works of subramanya bharati and vedanta desika.

bharathi wrote lovely poetry. but no tamil scholar would consider it high literary tamil. it was beautifully lyrical nevertheless.

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:37 pm

kinnera wrote:
The sucker preaches about integration, synthesis and stuff like that, wants all south indians to learn hindi, but he himself doesn't care to learn kannada even after living in b'lore for years! What a loser! *puke!*

Gulti does Ulti!

by Kayalvizhi Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:41 pm

>> pAventhar wrote that?

Yes, I remember it from my college days in Madurai. Most likely it is in Vol. 1 of the anthology (I coulkd be wrong about this reference)

I think Tamil Virtual University web site has Paaventhar poems. I know it has Bharathi poems.

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