Is this the future for India?

by Guest Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:39 pm

In Central America intermixing and intermarriages between European men and the indigenous women in Cuzcatlán or what is now El Salvador happened almost immediately after the arrival of the European Spanish led by Pedro de Alvarado. The majority of Salvadorans in El Salvador identify themselves as 90% Mestizo with heavy Meso-American indigenous and European-Spanish traditions, leaving the 9% White and 1% indigenous Salvadoran population as a minority. The mixing between the Europeans and the Native American indigenous people in El Salvador was so extensive that it is the only country in Latin America to be composed almost entirely of the Mestizo population which completely dominates other racial populations in the small nation. Salvadorans who are racially European, especially Mediterranean, and indigenous people in El Salvador who do not speak indigenous languages nor have an indigenous culture, also identify themselves as Mestizo culturally.

The African slaves that were brought to El Salvador during the colonial times, eventually came to mix and merged in to the much larger and vaster Mestizo mixed European Spanish/Native Indigenous population creating Afromestizos. At the end of the colonial era the mixing of the various races in the country was well on its way in creating a population that no longer had strong ethnic identities as Native American, European, or African, but that of tri or Multiracial, perhaps one of the only places in the Americas were these three racial groups entirely mixed together.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestizo

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with more and more inter-regional, inter-caste, and even inter-religious marriages taking place, one's regional, caste, and even religious identity may eventually wither away leaving only the national identity.

by Guest Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:50 pm

on further reflection: religious identities will probably remain in place long after regional and caste identities have disappeared. but eventually there will be a transition from religion to deism i.e. belief in God, but not in any organized religion.

by Kumarg Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:37 am

Is it a good thing for one's regional and religions identity to disappear? (I think it ok, perhaps even necessary for caste identity to disappear, but what about blending of regional and religious identity?)

by garam_kuta Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:13 pm

Kumarg wrote:Is it a good thing for one's regional and religions identity to disappear? (I think it ok, perhaps even necessary for caste identity to disappear, but what about blending of regional and religious identity?)

As long as there is no holier than thou/supremacist's attitude, can you elaborate what is wrong in being different with distinctive identity, as in individual/group/community whatever..

by Petrichor Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:54 pm

garam_kuta wrote:
As long as there is no holier than thou/supremacist's attitude, can you elaborate what is wrong in being different with distinctive identity, as in individual/group/community whatever..

This is an interesting question. Identity is a complex topic but to the extent it denotes a subscription to a set of core beliefs there should be no issue. It is when those beliefs translate into action that is either unjust, unfair or unethical that it raises the heckles of other social groups. Due to the rapid expansion of communications capabilities, the pace at which change propagates through multiple social groups subsuming Identity in the process is proving to be phenomenal. The minority influence on broader groups resulting in beliefs being absorbed into the mainstream and the mutual castration of Identities leading to a homogeneity of cultures and thus a homogeneity of beliefs will lead to new orthodoxies in the future.

I guess my simple point is, change is inevitable - either you get on with the program and lend your beliefs so that it becomes part of the new orthodoxy or get left behind.

Sorry if that was abstruse.

by Kumarg Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:59 pm

garam_kuta wrote:
Kumarg wrote:Is it a good thing for one's regional and religions identity to disappear? (I think it ok, perhaps even necessary for caste identity to disappear, but what about blending of regional and religious identity?)

As long as there is no holier than thou/supremacist's attitude, can you elaborate what is wrong in being different with distinctive identity, as in individual/group/community whatever..

I never said that there is anything wrong. Well we complain all the time about how America is so homogeneous,
boring with no religious festivals, no culture and identity of its own.
I am afraid India will become like that when all the future generation
will care about it money. Anyway I do not have any strong view points
about this, and I am not sure if one is better than the other.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:08 pm

atcg wrote:

I guess my simple point is, change is inevitable - either you get on with the program and lend your beliefs so that it becomes part of the new orthodoxy or get left behind.

american jews (and there are many flavors of american judaism) provide a sharp contrast to what you've just said. they've neither "gotten with the program" nor gotten left behind. in the community where i live they are standout different from the rest of us. if anything the indians are more homogenized here.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:13 pm

Kumarg wrote:
I never said that there is anything wrong. Well we complain all the time about how America is so homogeneous,
boring with no religious festivals, no culture and identity of its own.

heard of the delta blues or jazz music? how about miles davis, thelonious monk, george gershwin, faulkner or steinbeck?

by garam_kuta Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:39 pm

atcg wrote:
garam_kuta wrote:
As long as there is no holier than thou/supremacist's attitude, can you elaborate what is wrong in being different with distinctive identity, as in individual/group/community whatever..

This is an interesting question. Identity is a complex topic but to the extent it denotes a subscription to a set of core beliefs there should be no issue. It is when those beliefs translate into action that is either unjust, unfair or unethical that it raises the heckles of other social groups. Due to the rapid expansion of communications capabilities, the pace at which change propagates through multiple social groups subsuming Identity in the process is proving to be phenomenal. The minority influence on broader groups resulting in beliefs being absorbed into the mainstream and the mutual castration of Identities leading to a homogeneity of cultures and thus a homogeneity of beliefs will lead to new orthodoxies in the future.

I guess my simple point is, change is inevitable - either you get on with the program and lend your beliefs so that it becomes part of the new orthodoxy or get left behind.

Sorry if that was abstruse.

is it progress to move with the mob..I believe that could well be the latest SAT prompt

OTOH, Isn't variety the spice of life? look at your choice of men's clothing vis-a-vis at the possibilities of attire for women - some may be minimalists and choose nothing Wink

just the various marks that hindu men put on their forehead- wonderful and again women beat them
hair style - same story
this is just between those men and women who haven't been homogenized..Now with embellishments offered/derived from different communities, wow the possibilities are endless. i wouldn't miss any of it for anything !!!!

aside - your fine print is A+

by Kumarg Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:48 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kumarg wrote:
I never said that there is anything wrong. Well we complain all the time about how America is so homogeneous,
boring with no religious festivals, no culture and identity of its own.

heard of the delta blues or jazz music? how about miles davis, thelonious monk, george gershwin, faulkner or steinbeck?

No. :-)

by Petrichor Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:43 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
american jews (and there are many flavors of american judaism) provide a sharp contrast to what you've just said.

On the contrary, they are an excellent case of Minority Influence - their general worldview has been mainstreamed. You cannot really point out the differences between the "beliefs" of the average secular Jew from the average mainstream mythical secular American.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:49 pm

but this identity business is not just about beliefs. it also has to do with external symbols of group affiliation -- the yarmulke or the signature beard for example. also the speaking of hebrew at home, taking religious days off, the eating of specially grown or prepared food etc. none of this can be considered mainstream.

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