Genuine Hyderabadis vs Fake Hyderabadis

by Guest Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:54 am

In an article in Outlook magazine titled 'Quo Vadis, Hyderabad?', Bakhtiar Dadabhoy writes:

Whatever happens, the Dakhini in their souls will unite the people of this city.

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?263401

Dadabhoy, it is mentioned at the end of the article, is a civil servant whose family has lived in Hyderabad for over four generations. By Dakhini he is referring to the Dakhini language, whose variant Hyderabadi or Hyderabadi Dakhini, is the lingua franca of Hyderabad. By 'whatever happens' he is referring to the agitation for a separate Telangana state to be carved out of Andhra Pradesh (with Hyderabad as its capital), with some suggesting that the city be made a union territory if a division of the state indeed takes place.

The questions is: why do a few self-proclaimed hyderabadis go around poking fun at Dakhini to the extent that they refer to it as Duckini or Duckini-Cluckini. One can understand a Tamil or a Kannadiga or a North Indian making fun of Dakhini, but why should a Hyderabadi make fun of a language which is the lingua franca of his city? The answer seems to be this: These people have only recently moved to Hyderabad city--either they have moved themselves or their parents have moved. They have failed to absorb the cultural ethos of the city and remain culturally and emotionally connected to the village or town or city in AP in which their families resided for a long time and where they still might own some property. They may even visit these ancestral places from time to time. In my opinion, these people are not genuine Hyderabadis, but fake Hyderabadis. They may enjoy gobbling down Hyderabadi food like Haleem and Hyderabadi biryani, but their contempt for the lingua franca of the city means that genuine Hyderabadis will continue to resent these 'outsiders' who have failed to integrate themselves with Hyderabadi culture.

by Guest Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:40 am

i recently watched a b'wood movie, well done abba, that was in hyderabadi hindi starring boman irani in the lead role who goes through a kafkaesque circus to erect a bavdi (well) under a state subsidized scheme. for the first time i noticed that the hyderabadi hindi dialect has much in common with tapori speak of mumbai. i don't know how this has happened. or maybe i was reading too much or making incorrect connections. perhaps i need to watch it again (it was a good film).

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:32 pm

Max this thread is also for you.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:49 pm

Rashmun wrote:In an article in Outlook magazine titled 'Quo Vadis, Hyderabad?', Bakhtiar Dadabhoy writes:

Whatever happens, the Dakhini in their souls will unite the people of this city.

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?263401

Dadabhoy, it is mentioned at the end of the article, is a civil servant whose family has lived in Hyderabad for over four generations. By Dakhini he is referring to the Dakhini language, whose variant Hyderabadi or Hyderabadi Dakhini, is the lingua franca of Hyderabad. By 'whatever happens' he is referring to the agitation for a separate Telangana state to be carved out of Andhra Pradesh (with Hyderabad as its capital), with some suggesting that the city be made a union territory if a division of the state indeed takes place.

The questions is: why do a few self-proclaimed hyderabadis go around poking fun at Dakhini to the extent that they refer to it as Duckini or Duckini-Cluckini. One can understand a Tamil or a Kannadiga or a North Indian making fun of Dakhini, but why should a Hyderabadi make fun of a language which is the lingua franca of his city? The answer seems to be this: These people have only recently moved to Hyderabad city--either they have moved themselves or their parents have moved. They have failed to absorb the cultural ethos of the city and remain culturally and emotionally connected to the village or town or city in AP in which their families resided for a long time and where they still might own some property. They may even visit these ancestral places from time to time. In my opinion, these people are not genuine Hyderabadis, but fake Hyderabadis. They may enjoy gobbling down Hyderabadi food like Haleem and Hyderabadi biryani, but their contempt for the lingua franca of the city means that genuine Hyderabadis will continue to resent these 'outsiders' who have failed to integrate themselves with Hyderabadi culture.

Who are the other brilliant scholars in India who think along these lines? Raj and Bal Thakarey?

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:05 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:In an article in Outlook magazine titled 'Quo Vadis, Hyderabad?', Bakhtiar Dadabhoy writes:

Whatever happens, the Dakhini in their souls will unite the people of this city.

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?263401

Dadabhoy, it is mentioned at the end of the article, is a civil servant whose family has lived in Hyderabad for over four generations. By Dakhini he is referring to the Dakhini language, whose variant Hyderabadi or Hyderabadi Dakhini, is the lingua franca of Hyderabad. By 'whatever happens' he is referring to the agitation for a separate Telangana state to be carved out of Andhra Pradesh (with Hyderabad as its capital), with some suggesting that the city be made a union territory if a division of the state indeed takes place.

The questions is: why do a few self-proclaimed hyderabadis go around poking fun at Dakhini to the extent that they refer to it as Duckini or Duckini-Cluckini. One can understand a Tamil or a Kannadiga or a North Indian making fun of Dakhini, but why should a Hyderabadi make fun of a language which is the lingua franca of his city? The answer seems to be this: These people have only recently moved to Hyderabad city--either they have moved themselves or their parents have moved. They have failed to absorb the cultural ethos of the city and remain culturally and emotionally connected to the village or town or city in AP in which their families resided for a long time and where they still might own some property. They may even visit these ancestral places from time to time. In my opinion, these people are not genuine Hyderabadis, but fake Hyderabadis. They may enjoy gobbling down Hyderabadi food like Haleem and Hyderabadi biryani, but their contempt for the lingua franca of the city means that genuine Hyderabadis will continue to resent these 'outsiders' who have failed to integrate themselves with Hyderabadi culture.

Who are the other brilliant scholars in India who think along these lines? Raj and Bal Thakarey?

Some people resent the prevalence of Hyderabadi Dakhini as the lingua franca of Hyderabad. They would like Telugu to become the lingua Franca of Hyderabad. They believe that since Hyderabad has expanded and since Telugu is more widely spoken in the suburbs it will eventually displace Hyderabadi Dakhini as the lingua franca of Hyderabad. What they fail to take into account is that North Indians have been migrating in large numbers to Hyderabad and these people are more comfortable communicating in Hyderabadi Dakhini than in Telugu.

by truthbetold Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:56 pm

rashmun,
what makes you an expert on Hyderabad? who the heck is dadabhoy to tell us who is a Hyderabad? utter stupidity. garbage. useless nonsense.

the large number of Hyderabad residents are from ap villages as in any capital of any state. don,t tell us what our language should be. out of 40 square miles of Hyderabad Urdu or local variants of Urdu are confined to about 5 to 10 sq miles. most of the city conducts its economic activity in Telugu and English. people are nice enough to accommodate non Telugu speaking people using some variant of Urdu or Hindi.
Hyderabad of 2013 is cosmopolitan city that happens to have large Urdu variant speaking people.

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:25 pm

truthbetold wrote:rashmun,
what makes you an expert on Hyderabad? who the heck is dadabhoy to tell us who is a Hyderabad? utter stupidity. garbage. useless nonsense.

the large number of Hyderabad residents are from ap villages as in any capital of any state. don,t tell us what our language should be. out of 40 square miles of Hyderabad Urdu or local variants of Urdu are confined to about 5 to 10 sq miles. most of the city conducts its economic activity in Telugu and English. people are nice enough to accommodate non Telugu speaking people using some variant of Urdu or Hindi.
Hyderabad of 2013 is cosmopolitan city that happens to have large Urdu variant speaking people.

Dadadabhoy is a civil servant whose family has lived in hyderabad for over four generations as per the Outlook article. According to Dadabhoy it is the Dakhini ( i.e. Dakhini Hyderabadi language) in their souls that unites the people of the city of Hyderabad.

Dadabhoy's views may well be at variance with the views of someone whose family has migrated to Hyderabad relatively recently from some village or town in AP and who is more emotionally attached to the local culture of his native place than the local culture of Hyderabad.

North Indians have been migrating to Hyderabad in large numbers in search of better opportunities and also because Hyderabadi Dakhini is very similar to Hindustani. In Hyderabad North Indians need not learn Telugu to get by since it would be much easier for them to pick up the Hyderabadi language because it is a special form of Hindi.

by truthbetold Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:02 pm

I do not need dadabhoy or your approval to call myself Hyderabadi.
if ni moves to hyd and feels comfortable with broken Hindi and Urdu spoken there all the power to them. no one in hyd walks around thinking of imposing conditions on new comers language or otherwise.
one can also survive in hyd with English. of course one has to learn to speak at the level of autowallahs.
hyd has two big language groups and several small language groups. English dominates industrial and central govt activities. Telugu is the language of middle class and commercial activity along with state govt. Urdu and its variants are useful but not necessary excepting interactions with Muslim entities. yes Muslims who make up about 20 to 30% of city population communicate in what they think is Urdu. ni are a minority and just like minority in any city they adapt as required.

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:11 pm

truthbetold wrote:I do not need dadabhoy or your approval to call myself Hyderabadi.
if ni moves to hyd and feels comfortable with broken Hindi and Urdu spoken there all the power to them. no one in hyd walks around thinking of imposing conditions on new comers language or otherwise.
one can also survive in hyd with English. of course one has to learn to speak at the level of autowallahs.
hyd has two big language groups and several small language groups. English dominates industrial and central govt activities. Telugu is the language of middle class and commercial activity along with state govt. Urdu and its variants are useful but not necessary excepting interactions with Muslim entities. yes Muslims who make up about 20 to 30% of city population communicate in what they think is Urdu. ni are a minority and just like minority in any city they adapt as required.

In 2001 the population of Muslims in Hyderabad was 41% as per this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyderabad,_India

Autowalahs would of course be knowing both Hyderabadi and also Telugu.

But bottom line is that you reject the notion of Hyderabadi being the lingua Franca of Hyderabad. am I right?

by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:50 pm

Rashmun wrote:I The answer seems to be this: These people have only recently moved to Hyderabad city--either they have moved themselves or their parents have moved. They have failed to absorb the cultural ethos of the city and remain culturally and emotionally connected to the village or town or city in AP in which their families resided for a long time and where they still might own some property. They may even visit these ancestral places from time to time. In my opinion, these people are not genuine Hyderabadis, but fake Hyderabadis. They may enjoy gobbling down Hyderabadi food like Haleem and Hyderabadi biryani, but their contempt for the lingua franca of the city means that genuine Hyderabadis will continue to resent these 'outsiders' who have failed to integrate themselves with Hyderabadi culture.

Hahaha! He sounds just like me! when I whine about current state of test cricket and tontey-tontey diluting Cricket.

In reality, there would be as many Telugus from Telangana region migrated to Hyd as from the other regions of present A.P . So who is he trying to blame. Wait a minute, may be this was sponsored by our buddy KCR.

by truthbetold Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:56 pm

Hyderabadi is used as a communicating tool to some extent but not as much as in 1950s to1970s. it plays a very small or negligible role in newly developed suburbs. today greater hyd include much larger physical area and significant new Telugu speaking population.most population does not interact with old city where Urdu is useful. it is somewhat like downtown in major us city. you can avoid going therefor most of your life.

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:10 pm

truthbetold wrote:Hyderabadi is used as a communicating tool to some extent but not as much as in 1950s to1970s. it plays a very small or negligible role in newly developed suburbs. today greater hyd include much larger physical area and significant new Telugu speaking population.most population does not interact with old city where Urdu is useful. it is somewhat like downtown in major us city. you can avoid going therefor most of your life.

A telugu friend from Rayalaseema told me he is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in Andhra districts which are close to Orissa because many Oriya words are present in the Telugu spoken in these regions. do all telugus understand Telangana Telugu spoken in Hyderabad ?

Also My Rayalaseema friend told me that Telangana Telugu is considered inferior to other Telugu dialects. Vakavaka Pakapaka said on sulekha that Telangana Telugu is highly unmusical. Your comments?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:19 pm

Rashmun wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Hyderabadi is used as a communicating tool to some extent but not as much as in 1950s to1970s. it plays a very small or negligible role in newly developed suburbs. today greater hyd include much larger physical area and significant new Telugu speaking population.most population does not interact with old city where Urdu is useful. it is somewhat like downtown in major us city. you can avoid going therefor most of your life.

A telugu friend from Rayalaseema told me he is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in Andhra districts which are close to Orissa because many Oriya words are present in the Telugu spoken in these regions. do all telugus understand Telangana Telugu spoken in Hyderabad ?

Also My Rayalaseema friend told me that Telangana Telugu is considered inferior to other Telugu dialects. Vakavaka Pakapaka said on sulekha that Telangana Telugu is highly unmusical. Your comments?

my suspicion - different dialects of telugu are as different as urdu and hindi. now you can't take that and extrapolate it unreasonably to say that hyderabad telugu is closer to hindi/urdu than other telugu dialects. this seems to be your MO.

by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:20 pm

Rashmun wrote:
A telugu friend from Rayalaseema told me he is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in Andhra districts which are close to Orissa because many Oriya words are present in the Telugu spoken in these regions. do all telugus understand Telangana Telugu spoken in Hyderabad ?

Also My Rayalaseema friend told me that Telangana Telugu is considered inferior to other Telugu dialects. Vakavaka Pakapaka said on sulekha that Telangana Telugu is highly unmusical. Your comments?

So you wanna rehash same stuff over and over, man! you should change your profession to Bollywood screenplay writing.

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:25 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Hyderabadi is used as a communicating tool to some extent but not as much as in 1950s to1970s. it plays a very small or negligible role in newly developed suburbs. today greater hyd include much larger physical area and significant new Telugu speaking population.most population does not interact with old city where Urdu is useful. it is somewhat like downtown in major us city. you can avoid going therefor most of your life.

A telugu friend from Rayalaseema told me he is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in Andhra districts which are close to Orissa because many Oriya words are present in the Telugu spoken in these regions. do all telugus understand Telangana Telugu spoken in Hyderabad ?

Also My Rayalaseema friend told me that Telangana Telugu is considered inferior to other Telugu dialects. Vakavaka Pakapaka said on sulekha that Telangana Telugu is highly unmusical. Your comments?

my suspicion - different dialects of telugu are as different as urdu and hindi. now you can't take that and extrapolate it unreasonably to say that hyderabad telugu is closer to hindi/urdu than other telugu dialects. this seems to be your MO.

Not true. My Telugu friend from Rayalaseema told me that he is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in regions in AP which are close to Orissa because of the prevalence of a large percentage of Oriya words in the Telugu spoken by these people.

I seem to recall discussing this with Charvaka once and C also agreed that he himself is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in regions of AP close to Orissa for the same reason given by my friend.

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:26 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
A telugu friend from Rayalaseema told me he is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in Andhra districts which are close to Orissa because many Oriya words are present in the Telugu spoken in these regions. do all telugus understand Telangana Telugu spoken in Hyderabad ?

Also My Rayalaseema friend told me that Telangana Telugu is considered inferior to other Telugu dialects. Vakavaka Pakapaka said on sulekha that Telangana Telugu is highly unmusical. Your comments?

So you wanna rehash same stuff over and over, man! you should change your profession to Bollywood screenplay writing.

I am simply pointing out the rich cultural diversity in AP.

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:30 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Hyderabadi is used as a communicating tool to some extent but not as much as in 1950s to1970s. it plays a very small or negligible role in newly developed suburbs. today greater hyd include much larger physical area and significant new Telugu speaking population.most population does not interact with old city where Urdu is useful. it is somewhat like downtown in major us city. you can avoid going therefor most of your life.

A telugu friend from Rayalaseema told me he is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in Andhra districts which are close to Orissa because many Oriya words are present in the Telugu spoken in these regions. do all telugus understand Telangana Telugu spoken in Hyderabad ?

Also My Rayalaseema friend told me that Telangana Telugu is considered inferior to other Telugu dialects. Vakavaka Pakapaka said on sulekha that Telangana Telugu is highly unmusical. Your comments?

my suspicion - different dialects of telugu are as different as urdu and hindi. now you can't take that and extrapolate it unreasonably to say that hyderabad telugu is closer to hindi/urdu than other telugu dialects. this seems to be your MO.

Not true. My Telugu friend from Rayalaseema told me that he is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in regions in AP which are close to Orissa because of the prevalence of a large percentage of Oriya words in the Telugu spoken by these people.

I seem to recall discussing this with Charvaka once and C also agreed that he himself is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in regions of AP close to Orissa for the same reason given by my friend.

I wonder whether Hindustani would serve as the link language for many telugus living in regions in AP close to Orissa ,and also telugus living in Orissa in regions close to AP ,with other telugus.

by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:32 pm

Rashmun wrote:
I am simply pointing out the rich cultural diversity in AP.

Rushmun, this is not unique to AP or Telugu. The same is true for any language. For example, Kannadiga from Mysore might find it extremely difficult to follow Kannada spoken in Bidar or Belgaum.

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:35 pm

So Hindi doesn't have any dialects? Is it spoken the same way everywhere?

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:36 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
I am simply pointing out the rich cultural diversity in AP.

Rushmun, this is not unique to AP or Telugu. The same is true for any language. For example, Kannadiga from Mysore might find it extremely difficult to follow Kannada spoken in Bidar or Belgaum.

Do you know whether Hindustani or its South Indian variant Dakhini serve as the link language to enable people from these different regions to communicate?

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:37 pm

kinnera wrote:So Hindi doesn't have any dialects? Is it spoken the same way everywhere?

The answer is yes with respect to cities. Minor variations may be present but the language is always mutually comprehensible as long as we are talking about cities.

by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:54 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Do you know whether Hindustani or its South Indian variant Dakhini serve as the link language to enable people from these different regions to communicate?

I'm pretty sure that a Telugu from Adilabad or Srikakulam or Ananthpur can read & comprehend Telugu newspaper or follow soaps on TV channel with the same ease. So, thanks but no thanks, we will pass this time.

by truthbetold Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:08 pm

Rashmun,
in your anxiousness to push dakhani theory yougo through some extraordinary contortions. if the telugus from different parts of the state cannot understand another what is the benefit of learning dakhani and use it as a link tool? (assuming at least one of they do not know dakhani, which is true in 99.9% cases? common sense suggest that they will overcome differences in a short period of time without the need for another language. English would a most logical choice for even min educated persons.
stop these mental gyrations and think of some up related subject.

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:10 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Do you know whether Hindustani or its South Indian variant Dakhini serve as the link language to enable people from these different regions to communicate?

I'm pretty sure that a Telugu from Adilabad or Srikakulam or Ananthpur can read & comprehend Telugu newspaper or follow soaps on TV channel with the same ease. So, thanks but no thanks, we will pass this time.

That's not enough. The function of a language is also that it enables people to communicate with each other. Since Telugu is not allowing people from regions in AP close to Orissa and also telugus in Orissa in regions close to AP to communicate with many other Telugus some other link language must be being used to facilitate the communication.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:10 pm

Rashmun wrote:
I wonder whether Hindustani would serve as the link language for many telugus living in regions in AP close to Orissa ,and also telugus living in Orissa in regions close to AP ,with other telugus.

that being of course the real agenda couched in much of this telengana telugu versus other telugu narrative. except occasionally one inadvertently drops one's guard and allows the real agenda to pop up and show its true face in all its splendor.

yes yes, poor communication amongst its people is what ails AP which has no other problems.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:12 pm

is there any proof that poor communication amongst its citizens is what is keeping AP achieve its true economic potential?

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:13 pm

truthbetold wrote:Rashmun,
in your anxiousness to push dakhani theory yougo through some extraordinary contortions. if the telugus from different parts of the state cannot understand another what is the benefit of learning dakhani and use it as a link tool? (assuming at least one of they do not know dakhani, which is true in 99.9% cases? common sense suggest that they will overcome differences in a short period of time without the need for another language. English would a most logical choice for even min educated persons.
stop these mental gyrations and think of some up related subject.

I did think of English but my understanding is that English is the language of the elites in India. In my estimate fewer than 10 percent Indians know sufficient English so as to communicate with another person.

by truthbetold Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:15 pm

Cd,
education, news papers, movies, and above all tv brings language to some level of uniformity. i was told that us English became more alike in the past few decades with tv playing a major role.

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:17 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:is there any proof that poor communication amongst its citizens is what is keeping AP achieve its true economic potential?

People of AP are definitely communicating with each other. My question is: what is the link language used by people in AP from regions close to Orissa and also telugus in Orissa in regions close to AP when they communicate with telugus in other parts of AP?

by truthbetold Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:18 pm

Rashmun wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Rashmun,
in your anxiousness to push dakhani theory yougo through some extraordinary contortions. if the telugus from different parts of the state cannot understand another what is the benefit of learning dakhani and use it as a link tool? (assuming at least one of they do not know dakhani, which is true in 99.9% cases? common sense suggest that they will overcome differences in a short period of time without the need for another language. English would a most logical choice for even min educated persons.
stop these mental gyrations and think of some up related subject.

I did think of English but my understanding is that English is the language of the elites in India. In my estimate fewer than 10 percent Indians know sufficient English so as to communicate with another person.

a much much smaller than 10% know dakhani in the districts in discussion.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:19 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:is there any proof that poor communication amongst its citizens is what is keeping AP achieve its true economic potential?

People of AP are definitely communicating with each other. My question is: what is the link language used by people in AP from regions close to Orissa and also telugus in Orissa in regions close to AP when they communicate with telugus in other parts of AP?

-- why is that important to YOU and how does it affect YOUR life?
-- why is this important to the people of AP?
-- of all the problems that presently impede economic development in AP, is lack of optimal communication between its people an important factor?

by truthbetold Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:20 pm

Rashmun,
Telugu and toan extent English followed by Tamil and Kannada.

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:28 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:is there any proof that poor communication amongst its citizens is what is keeping AP achieve its true economic potential?

People of AP are definitely communicating with each other. My question is: what is the link language used by people in AP from regions close to Orissa and also telugus in Orissa in regions close to AP when they communicate with telugus in other parts of AP?

-- why is that important to YOU and how does it affect YOUR life?
-- why is this important to the people of AP?
-- of all the problems that presently impede economic development in AP, is lack of optimal communication between its people an important factor?

1. I am interested in the history and culture of India.
2. Telugus in AP need a link language to communicate.
3. I never said that. The link language(s) which allow a Telugu to communicate with another Telugu already exist. My question is whether a variation of Hindustani is sometimes used as a link language by two telugus. We will leave Hyderabad and hyderabadis out of this discussion because Hyderabadi and Hindustani are mutually comprehensible.

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:33 pm

truthbetold wrote:Rashmun,
Telugu and toan extent English followed by Tamil and Kannada.

Thank you. Meanwhile please share your thoughts on the following:

****I may relate a personal experience. I was traveling in a taxi from Hyderabad in Andhra Pradesh to Gulbarga in Karnataka where I had to attend a function. The taxi driver was a Telugu speaking person while the Professor of Gulbarga University who came to fetch me was a Kannada speaking gentleman, but they spoke to each other in Hindi. I was surprised, since both these persons were South Indians, and I asked them why they were speaking in Hindi. They said that that was because Hindi was the link language for them both.

http://kgfindia.com/jamia-speech-on-urdu.php

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:35 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:is there any proof that poor communication amongst its citizens is what is keeping AP achieve its true economic potential?

People of AP are definitely communicating with each other. My question is: what is the link language used by people in AP from regions close to Orissa and also telugus in Orissa in regions close to AP when they communicate with telugus in other parts of AP?

It's telugu. What else? scratch

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:38 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Hyderabadi is used as a communicating tool to some extent but not as much as in 1950s to1970s. it plays a very small or negligible role in newly developed suburbs. today greater hyd include much larger physical area and significant new Telugu speaking population.most population does not interact with old city where Urdu is useful. it is somewhat like downtown in major us city. you can avoid going therefor most of your life.

A telugu friend from Rayalaseema told me he is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in Andhra districts which are close to Orissa because many Oriya words are present in the Telugu spoken in these regions. do all telugus understand Telangana Telugu spoken in Hyderabad ?

Also My Rayalaseema friend told me that Telangana Telugu is considered inferior to other Telugu dialects. Vakavaka Pakapaka said on sulekha that Telangana Telugu is highly unmusical. Your comments?

my suspicion - different dialects of telugu are as different as urdu and hindi. now you can't take that and extrapolate it unreasonably to say that hyderabad telugu is closer to hindi/urdu than other telugu dialects. this seems to be your MO.

Not true. My Telugu friend from Rayalaseema told me that he is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in regions in AP which are close to Orissa because of the prevalence of a large percentage of Oriya words in the Telugu spoken by these people.

I seem to recall discussing this with Charvaka once and C also agreed that he himself is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in regions of AP close to Orissa for the same reason given by my friend.

Kinnera please read the above.

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:45 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Not true. My Telugu friend from Rayalaseema told me that he is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in regions in AP which are close to Orissa because of the prevalence of a large percentage of Oriya words in the Telugu spoken by these people.

I seem to recall discussing this with Charvaka once and C also agreed that he himself is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in regions of AP close to Orissa for the same reason given by my friend.

Kinnera please read the above.[/quote]

My SIL got married to a guy from Bhubaneshwar and lives there. It's a slightly different dialect, but nothing close to 'incomprehensible'. I understand it fine. No probs at all. Do you not understand other dialects of hindi?

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:52 pm

kinnera wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Not true. My Telugu friend from Rayalaseema told me that he is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in regions in AP which are close to Orissa because of the prevalence of a large percentage of Oriya words in the Telugu spoken by these people.

I seem to recall discussing this with Charvaka once and C also agreed that he himself is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in regions of AP close to Orissa for the same reason given by my friend.

Kinnera please read the above.

My SIL got married to a guy from Bhubaneshwar and lives there. It's a slightly different dialect, but nothing close to 'incomprehensible'. I understand it fine. No probs at all. Do you not understand other dialects of hindi?[/quote]

This was not what I heard from my friend from Rayalaseema and also from Charvaka. the presence of Oriya words in this dialect is what causes the problem I think. I think you are being economical with the truth.

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:56 pm

Rashmun wrote:
kinnera wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Not true. My Telugu friend from Rayalaseema told me that he is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in regions in AP which are close to Orissa because of the prevalence of a large percentage of Oriya words in the Telugu spoken by these people.

I seem to recall discussing this with Charvaka once and C also agreed that he himself is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in regions of AP close to Orissa for the same reason given by my friend.

Kinnera please read the above.

My SIL got married to a guy from Bhubaneshwar and lives there. It's a slightly different dialect, but nothing close to 'incomprehensible'. I understand it fine. No probs at all. Do you not understand other dialects of hindi?

This was not what I heard from my friend from Rayalaseema and also from Charvaka. the presence of Oriya words in this dialect is what causes the problem I think. I think you are being economical with the truth.[/quote]

eh? If you don't hear what you want to hear, then the other person is economical with the truth which means i am lying? What the heck! Pls know what you are talking.
btw, you didn't answer my question. Do you not understand other dialects of hindi? If so, how do you communicate with them, esp if the other knows only hindi and no other language?

by truthbetold Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:57 pm

Rashmun,
what is the point of your gulbarga example? Are you trying to say that example signifies all communication beeteen telugu and kannada people?
you have to understand that the world is much larger than your experience. Do not project your experiences as proof of a world you have limited or no knowledge.
It is ok to ask. It is not wise to make assertive statements about tn or ap without gaining substantially more experience.

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:00 pm

truthbetold wrote:Rashmun,
what is the point of your gulbarga example? Are you trying to say that example signifies all communication beeteen telugu and kannada people?
you have to understand that the world is much larger than your experience. Do not project your experiences as proof of a world you have limited or no knowledge.
It is ok to ask. It is not wise to make assertive statements about tn or ap without gaining substantially more experience.

Why are you getting angry? I am only pointing out that in some ( not all) instances a variant of Hindustani is used as a link language in south India.

by truthbetold Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:04 pm

Rashmun,
what is the point of your gulbarga example? Are you trying to say that example signifies all communication beeteen telugu and kannada people?
you have to understand that the world is much larger than your experience. Do not project your experiences as proof of a world you have limited or no knowledge.
It is ok to ask. It is not wise to make assertive statements about tn or ap without gaining substantially more experience.

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:06 pm

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:i recently watched a b'wood movie, well done abba, that was in hyderabadi hindi starring boman irani in the lead role who goes through a kafkaesque circus to erect a bavdi (well) under a state subsidized scheme. for the first time i noticed that the hyderabadi hindi dialect has much in common with tapori speak of mumbai. i don't know how this has happened. or maybe i was reading too much or making incorrect connections. perhaps i need to watch it again (it was a good film).

I don't think the two are same. much difference. Loved that movie, btw.

by Propagandhi711 Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:07 pm

Rashmun wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Rashmun,
in your anxiousness to push dakhani theory yougo through some extraordinary contortions. if the telugus from different parts of the state cannot understand another what is the benefit of learning dakhani and use it as a link tool? (assuming at least one of they do not know dakhani, which is true in 99.9% cases? common sense suggest that they will overcome differences in a short period of time without the need for another language. English would a most logical choice for even min educated persons.
stop these mental gyrations and think of some up related subject.

I did think of English but my understanding is that English is the language of the elites in India. In my estimate fewer than 10 percent Indians know sufficient English so as to communicate with another person.

Rashmun, late last night I was on the internets and this fella who claimed to be your Telugu friend from rayalaseeema engaged me in small talk over chat. I told him about your performance and theories on a myriad of topics and he said that as long as he knew you, you were prone to wild contortions, twisting yourself into a pretzel on a variety of occasions and that one time due to an unfortunate accident you ended up with your ass next to your face. He said ever since then whenever you ate dal makhini you would pass gas directly into your brain and come up with wild duckini theories until the noxious fumes were flushed down the spinal column. Is that true?

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:15 pm

kinnera wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
kinnera wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Not true. My Telugu friend from Rayalaseema told me that he is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in regions in AP which are close to Orissa because of the prevalence of a large percentage of Oriya words in the Telugu spoken by these people.

I seem to recall discussing this with Charvaka once and C also agreed that he himself is unable to understand the Telugu spoken in regions of AP close to Orissa for the same reason given by my friend.

Kinnera please read the above.

My SIL got married to a guy from Bhubaneshwar and lives there. It's a slightly different dialect, but nothing close to 'incomprehensible'. I understand it fine. No probs at all. Do you not understand other dialects of hindi?

This was not what I heard from my friend from Rayalaseema and also from Charvaka. the presence of Oriya words in this dialect is what causes the problem I think. I think you are being economical with the truth.

eh? If you don't hear what you want to hear, then the other person is economical with the truth which means i am lying? What the heck! Pls know what you are talking.
btw, you didn't answer my question. Do you not understand other dialects of hindi? If so, how do you communicate with them, esp if the other knows only hindi and no other language?[/quote]

A native speaker of Awadhi or Bhojpuri would have to know Hindustani if he wants to communicate with me. I have till date not encountered anyone whose native language was one of these rural dialects who also did not know Hindi (Hindustani). I think Hindi movies play a big role in this.

What you are telling me about the telugu spoken in Orissa is different from what my Rayalaseema friend --who i knew very well--and also Charvaka told me. My suggestion is that my Rayalaseema friend and also Charvaka are talking about telugus living in AP in regions close to Orissa and also telugus in Orissa in regions close to AP. these people have been living in these regions for several generations. Your BIL and his family could be recent immigrants to Orissa from Rayalaseema or from coastal Andhra from a region not close to the Orissa border.

Notice that your BIL is living in the capital of Orissa and not in a region in Orissa adjoining AP. Assumimg that most telugus in Bhubaneswar are recent immigrants and your BIL and his family is one of them provides a satisfactory explanation to the contradiction.

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:19 pm

truthbetold wrote:Rashmun,
what is the point of your gulbarga example? Are you trying to say that example signifies all communication beeteen telugu and kannada people?
you have to understand that the world is much larger than your experience. Do not project your experiences as proof of a world you have limited or no knowledge.
It is ok to ask. It is not wise to make assertive statements about tn or ap without gaining substantially more experience.

I never said my example signifies all communication between kannadigas and telugus but I would expect Hindustani to be the typical link language of someone from Hyderabad and someone from Gulbarga.

by truthbetold Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:26 pm

Why are you getting angry? I am only pointing out that in some ( not all) instances a variant of Hindustani is used as a link language in south India.[/quote]
The word is not angry. It is exasperated.
The word some implies a portion that can be considered not in significant. Neither your lone example nor your experience supports the usage of some.
Stick to topics you know or topics we do not know (ex: moghul stories).

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:31 pm

truthbetold wrote:

Why are you getting angry? I am only pointing out that in some ( not all) instances a variant of Hindustani is used as a link language in south India.

The word is not angry. It is exasperated.
The word some implies a portion that can be considered not in significant. Neither your lone example nor your experience supports the usage of some.
Stick to topics you know or topics we do not know (ex: moghul stories).[/quote]

I will see if I can give more such examples after some further research on this topic.

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:55 pm

Rashmun wrote:

What you are telling me about the telugu spoken in Orissa is different from what my Rayalaseema friend --who i knew very well--and also Charvaka told me. My suggestion is that my Rayalaseema friend and also Charvaka are talking about telugus living in AP in regions close to Orissa and also telugus in Orissa in regions close to AP. these people have been living in these regions for several generations. Your BIL and his family could be recent immigrants to Orissa from Rayalaseema or from coastal Andhra from a region not close to the Orissa border.

Notice that your BIL is living in the capital of Orissa and not in a region in Orissa adjoining AP. Assumimg that most telugus in Bhubaneswar are recent immigrants and your BIL and his family is one of them provides a satisfactory explanation to the contradiction.

ok...ask Indophile then. He's a telugu from Orissa.

by Guest Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:56 pm

Rashmun wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

Why are you getting angry? I am only pointing out that in some ( not all) instances a variant of Hindustani is used as a link language in south India.
The word is not angry. It is exasperated.
The word some implies a portion that can be considered not in significant. Neither your lone example nor your experience supports the usage of some.
Stick to topics you know or topics we do not know (ex: moghul stories).

I will see if I can give more such examples after some further research on this topic.

GUMMIDIPOONDI : Native Tamil businessmen in a tiny industrial town in the State, bordering Andhra Pradesh, have become keener on learning Hindi and Odia. Shopkeepers now ensure their stores’ names are displayed in Hindi as well. Thanks to Gummidipoondi steel plants’ growing labour demand, the town, situated about 50 km north of Chennai, has seen recent a spurt in the number of migrants from Odisha.

Keeping in mind the 15,000 odd strong population from Bihar, West Bengal and Odisha, shops here have begun selling DVDs of recent Odia movies and mobile phone memory cards that have the latest Ollywood earworms.

Gummidipoondi’s Odisha connection dates back to over two decades with the establishment of heavy industries here in the late 1980’s. Steel plants started attracting hard-working labourers from remote villages in Odisha, opening the doors for large-scale migration.

“Cashing in on the migrants, many small accommodation facilities for labourers spruced up. We are even thinking of starting an association for migrant labourers who are subjected to exploitation,” said K K Dhalay, a shopkeeper from Odisha and a resident of Gummidipoondi for over 20 years. Over 300 people from Gummidipoondi participated in the Utkal Divas celebrations in Chennai recently, he proudly added.

“We are trying to familiarise ourselves with Hindi to communicate with people from north India. I can speak basic Hindi words like ek, dho, theen (one, two, three) and pani (water),” said Ravichandran, who runs a pharmacy on G N T road.� Stores here even sell Hindi magazines and varieties of paan.

http://content.ibnlive.in.com/article/19-May-2012south-india/tn-shares-border-with-odisha-259371-60.html

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