Tamil Wacko

by MulaiAzhagi Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:24 pm

This Indian culture is the most radical idea in recent years to have simultaneously entered the minds of Hindu fundamentalist groups and self-proclaimed feminists like National Commission for Women chairperson Mamta Sharma. In keeping with the patriotic spirit of the season, I call upon these outfits to revive the said culture by promoting the elegant style of clothing showcased by Chola bronzes. Desi Designer Wear. Since it’s always summer in south India, there’s no need to bother about a Fall/Winter collection.

Moving from apparel to food, I want to remind the right-wing outfits that Sangam-era warriors enjoyed their booze after a delicious meal cooked to such perfection that distinguishing meat from rice was like picking silt from river sand. That’s a couple of thousand years ago, but country booze can be brought back into fashion. In Tamil, there is documented evidence of toddy from the root of the fig tree, toddy from the bark of the usilam (sirisa) tree, toddy from the flowers of iluppai (mahua) tree, palmyra toddy, peepal toddy, coconut toddy and even paddy toddy. We Tamils were known to dig our drinks in its highly fermented form, so sour you would make a face just sipping it. My personal pick would be the mattu, distilled liquor from the sugarcane, a recommended aphrodisiac. Or, it would be the undaattu, an eponymous spirit that required you to drink, then dance. Ideally, I would buy it from a patuvi, a lady who sells liquor. Sorry for making references to my mother-tongue alone, but since you have Indian culture in mind, don’t forget that there are at least a thousand different languages here and 10 times as many drinks. Each of them is as Indian as the other. Dear Protector of Indian Culture, doesn’t this bubbly idea intoxicate you? Bring it back, bring it on, we’ll get drunk on this delight. Let us hit the dance floor, now.

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?281835

by Propagandhi711 Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:29 pm

Are there other types?

by Maria S Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:45 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:Are there other types?

Hey, hey DUT Garu! Easy now:)

Think Sara is just attracted to some..well, to fiery and "unusual" women (with the exception of kallu women).. like a moth to a flame! But, he means well!

Sara,

Is Meena still your object of attraction:) She's my Fb friend, know her..will come to her defense and say- she's "colorful and unusual" and attracts a lot of.. you know that "forbidden caste" thing..although, this was a difficult read..sometimes she does go off on a tangent.. seeks "complications" with a passion and loves partying..but, I thought her suggestions were in fun..kind of fun..I don't drink..but, for those who do..perhaps this may be appealing!

by Impedimenta Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:35 pm

M akka
Who is meena? And is she being punished by being the object of breast beauty's affection?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:52 pm

Maria S wrote:

Sara,

Is Meena still your object of attraction:) She's my Fb friend, know her..will come to her defense and say- she's "colorful and unusual" and attracts a lot of.. you know that "forbidden caste" thing..although, this was a difficult read..sometimes she does go off on a tangent.. seeks "complications" with a passion and loves partying..but, I thought her suggestions were in fun..kind of fun..I don't drink..but, for those who do..perhaps this may be appealing!

Any pix?

by Maria S Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:59 pm

Here you go..

Ms. Meena Kandasamy..colorful young Indian woman- loves to live life to the fullest..poet/writer, dalit- anti caste activist, self-proclaimed feminist (bordering on anti-men) at times, imo..*on a personal level.. a lovely e-friend..sweet and always polite in her interactions.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:03 pm

Maria S wrote:Here you go..

Ms. Meena Kandasamy..colorful young Indian woman- loves to live life to the fullest..poet/writer, dalit- anti caste activist, self-proclaimed feminist (bordering on anti-men) at times, imo..*on a personal level.. a lovely e-friend..sweet and always polite in her interactions.

What is it surprising that a dalit is an anti-caste activist? Of course, just like the poor will be against anti-poor policies, it is only natural that a dalit will be an anti-caste policies/politics.

I would not mind if Meena herself responds to this....I am a vehement anti-caste activist when it comes to women's interests..... Wink

by Idéfix Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:13 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Maria S wrote:Here you go..

Ms. Meena Kandasamy..colorful young Indian woman- loves to live life to the fullest..poet/writer, dalit- anti caste activist, self-proclaimed feminist (bordering on anti-men) at times, imo..*on a personal level.. a lovely e-friend..sweet and always polite in her interactions.

What is it surprising that a dalit is an anti-caste activist? Of course, just like the poor will be against anti-poor policies, it is only natural that a dalit will be an anti-caste policies/politics.

Ah, I see. By the same logic, are you equally dismissive of "upper" caste people who oppose reservations? Wait, aren't you one of those "upper" caste people who oppose reservations yourself?

by Maria S Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:20 pm

*You know what I meant Saami..

She is quite bold and outspoken for sure! Some of her honest writings about rape and sexual abuse..can make some people very uncomfortable..not surprisingly..it takes really a certain kind of man-with a lot of patience and understanding..to be involved with someone like her..she was head-over-heels in love..eloped- think it was impulsive..don't think it was too surprising..that ended..with all kinds of complications:)

It would be interesting to see..how she is..20 years from now/as she continues to evolve..I don't want to compare her with anyone else..she's Meena, one of a kind;)

by Maria S Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:05 pm

I wish I had found this recent article/profile of Meena sooner..

Straight from the heart

http://www.thehindu.com/life-and-style/metroplus/article3558917.ece

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:07 pm

i remember reading a poorly argued article by her in the outlook magazine on the serving and eating of beef in some university mess. she was trying to be funny while also making the case for serving beef, and she ended up doing neither. she is certainly VERY pretty and reminds me of someone i know. i haven't read her poetry, but i am quite sure it's better than her prose.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:28 pm

after boji and maria's post here i happened to chance upon her writing about her marriage. it is shocking on so many levels! i'll have more to say about it later, but one question is foremost in my mind. how did someone who is as smart and as firebrand a feminist as she claims she is in her writings, put up with SO much and for so long? i have no wish to pry into her personal life, but i hope this is a legitimate question given that she has chosen to write publicly about it.

by Guest Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:41 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:after boji and maria's post here i happened to chance upon her writing about her marriage. it is shocking on so many levels! i'll have more to say about it later, but one question is foremost in my mind. how did someone who is as smart and as firebrand a feminist as she claims she is in her writings, put up with SO much and for so long? i have no wish to pry into her personal life, but i hope this is a legitimate question given that she has chosen to write publicly about it.

link please? i don't know anything about the situation. But (grossly generalizing here), most people stay long enough in a bad marriage, coz they think they are strong enough to control/influence/manipulate/correct certain behavior of the spouse. Then there is also an unwillingness to embrace 'failure', coz that's what it means. And finally they realize, what's been said to them for centuries, that you can't change anyone. Also, eventually the chance of having a better future life starts appearing more appealing than this present failure. That's when they decide to pick up and move on.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:29 pm

Natalia Romanova wrote:
link please?

you know her name and you know how to type a search term in google, and you have time on your hands.

by Maria S Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:30 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:after boji and maria's post here i happened to chance upon her writing about her marriage. it is shocking on so many levels! i'll have more to say about it later, but one question is foremost in my mind. how did someone who is as smart and as firebrand a feminist as she claims she is in her writings, put up with SO much and for so long? i have no wish to pry into her personal life, but i hope this is a legitimate question given that she has chosen to write publicly about it.

No Mariakka today? Hmm.. It's alright:)

Seriously..obviously, only she can speak for herself..but, I am not surprised at all..

One can write volumes about how brave feminists they are, how smart they are, how independent they are..but, love and passion makes women very weak, clingy and vulnerable.

Add to that the artist/creative people personalities..people like Meena (esp. poets/artists)..who have extremely melodramatic, volatile personalities are highly sensitive..have a harder time-difficult time adapting to - adjusting in intimate relationships/marriages which are filled with love-hate dynamics..and hate to be "controlled"..
*I am not saying that there was no abuse..and am sure- there was as she claims..(at least she percieves as how the man treats her) and I do think there is *another side (her husband's side)* to her claims..as I said before..it's not easy for most men to deal with women who are so emotional/independent/outspoken who will lash out with them rather violently/totally demolish their egos- with words and hit back with physical violence too- and that only worsens the violent cycles..reading some of the ways she looks at sexuality..is rather intimidating..am sure..it's quite challenging for most men, imo.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:37 pm

Maria S wrote:
Add to that the artist/creative people personalities..people like Meena (esp. poets/artists)..who have extremely melodramatic, volatile personalities are highly sensitive..have a harder time-difficult time adapting to - adjusting in intimate relationships/marriages which are filled with love-hate dynamics..

very true.

by Guest Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:51 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Natalia Romanova wrote:
link please?

you know her name and you know how to type a search term in google, and you have time on your hands.

ah so much love. well, i wanted to read the same article that u did.

by MulaiAzhagi Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:27 pm

http://chenthil.blogspot.com/search/label/%E0%AE%9A%E0%AF%8A%E0%AE%A8%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%A4%20%E0%AE%9A%E0%AF%86%E0%AE%B2%E0%AE%B5%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%B2%E0%AF%8D%20%E0%AE%9A%E0%AF%82%E0%AE%A9%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%AF%E0%AE%AE%E0%AF%8D

===> She was married to some LTTE jerk.

by Ponniyin Selvan Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:20 am

Maria S wrote:Here you go..

Ms. Meena Kandasamy..colorful young Indian woman- loves to live life to the fullest..poet/writer, dalit- anti caste activist, self-proclaimed feminist (bordering on anti-men) at times, imo..*on a personal level.. a lovely e-friend..sweet and always polite in her interactions.

Meena Kandasamy claims to be a Dalit activist, but she is not a Dalit, using the tag for getting famous. Her mom is a asst.prof in IIT Madras.
http://mat.iitm.ac.in/home/wbv/public_html/Biodata.htm

She seems fake and without getting the other side of the story from her husband we cannot really know the true story of her marriage.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:25 am

panini press wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Maria S wrote:Here you go..

Ms. Meena Kandasamy..colorful young Indian woman- loves to live life to the fullest..poet/writer, dalit- anti caste activist, self-proclaimed feminist (bordering on anti-men) at times, imo..*on a personal level.. a lovely e-friend..sweet and always polite in her interactions.

What is it surprising that a dalit is an anti-caste activist? Of course, just like the poor will be against anti-poor policies, it is only natural that a dalit will be an anti-caste policies/politics.
Ah, I see. By the same logic, are you equally dismissive of "upper" caste people who oppose reservations? Wait, aren't you one of those "upper" caste people who oppose reservations yourself?

My position on reservation is well established here. Ask the staunch pro-reservationist PS about it.

Something is fake about this Meena Kandasamy - just dont know what.

by Maria S Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:05 am

PS,

Are you sure that this is her mother..what about her father? Her profiles I have read mention that, and she was the Editor for "The Dalit" magazine.

http://redroom.com/member/meena-kandasamy/bioagazine.

I don't think she is fake (just a colorful personality) and likes "over-exposure" in the media.. has some "Kim Kadarshian-like" tendencies..treats life like a reality show- rather impulsive with men. Unfortunately that stirs up men too..they post terrible things in public about her.

*Any woman activist who is charismatic knows- got to take that, but sometimes she mixes reality and fantasy- which is much too obvious at times. It is hard to believe that she did not know her ex was married and some of the other things she says.

But, who knows! As I said, in her case..it's much too complicated, and it triggers mixed views/feelings about her:)

by Merlot Daruwala Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:45 am

She writes well. Her barbs at the chaddis running amuck in Mangalore are well aimed. And she looks delicious. What's not to like? Why are OBC warriors picking on her??

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:53 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:And she looks delicious. What's not to like?

delicious is right. there's nothing not to like, but plenty to be intrigued about including her seeming naivete, given all the fiery writing. but the naivete could be an act too.

an interview in tamil that i found mildly interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcKtfq0Jbcs

by Guest Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:32 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:after boji and maria's post here i happened to chance upon her writing about her marriage. it is shocking on so many levels! i'll have more to say about it later, but one question is foremost in my mind. how did someone who is as smart and as firebrand a feminist as she claims she is in her writings, put up with SO much and for so long? i have no wish to pry into her personal life, but i hope this is a legitimate question given that she has chosen to write publicly about it.

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?280179

The guy is a typical abuser and Meena, a typical woman and the whole thing is a typical scenario in an abusive relationship. Nothing surprising or shocking there. It's just sad. I am glad she isn't legally married to him, was kicked out in four months, and is free now.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:39 am

ok...time to synthesize all the posts...

Her mother, by her own statements, is a math "teacher" at IIT-M.

Her father is a Tamil writer.

She is a Dalit or not; by blabbering about dalit all the time, she is contradicting herself as an Anti-Caste activist - my foot..

Good she wrote about Mangalore Mafia. Wish she had also criticized Murderous Muslim Mafia. Hey..why anti caste? she should become anti-religion.

Finally she is a B- ..sort of ok... May be She should hook up with Merlot and they can live happily ever after..... Wink

by Guest Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:42 am

question... people who are anti-caste to the extent that they don't even wanna mention or question the caste of people they meet, are they against [caste-based] reservations too? If not, is that a double standard or there is another deeper reason to support it? If poverty is the reason, then shouldn't they be done based on that, and not caste?

What about ch'ers here? Views?

by Propagandhi711 Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:56 am

There are stupid questions and then there are stupid questions...the above is the latter.

by Maria S Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:02 pm

Natalia Romanova wrote:question... people who are anti-caste to the extent that they don't even wanna mention or question the caste of people they meet, are they against [caste-based] reservations too? If not, is that a double standard or there is another deeper reason to support it? If poverty is the reason, then shouldn't they be done based on that, and not caste?

What about ch'ers here? Views?

It's not a contradiction/double standard to talk about the realites of caste-based societal problems, imo *no matter which caste one may belong to...I think Meena and others- when they say "anti-caste"..it's really about rights related to caste-equality.

I know how the caste system is still a huge deal in TN, in many communties..and can't deny people from certain lower castes have been discriminated enormously/and still are- and it's not time to "fully abolish" caste-based reservations.

*I certainly agree..that the Caste-based reservations have to be modified- the numbers must be significantly decreased (esp. for those who are economically doing well) and as economic and social changes occur- they can be even reduced further.

by Guest Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:06 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote: May be She should hook up with Merlot and they can live happily ever after.....

is Merlot available to be hooked? Why don't I know anything anytime?

by MulaiAzhagi Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:12 pm

http://mat.iitm.ac.in/home/wbv/public_html/biodata.pdf

Dr. W.B.VASANTHA KANDASAMY
Department of Mathematics
Indian Institute of Technology
Chennai 600 036, India
web: http://mat.iitm.ac.in/~wbv, http://www.vasantha.in
e-mail: vasanthakandasamy@gmail.com
mobile: +9198847 75009, phone: +914422570517

Date of Birth : 24 December 1951
Residential Address : D-3/1, First Link Road
(Near State Bank of India)
Indian Institute of Technology
Chennai – 600 036
Father’s Name : Worathur Balasubramaniam
(Ex-Headmaster, Thondaimandala
Thuluva Vellala Higher
Secondary School, Chennai)
Mother’s Name : Krishnaveni Balasubramaniam
Community : Backward Class
Martial Status : Married to Dr. K. Kandasamy
Children : Two daughters

===>

1. This lady's father was well educated. You cannot become the headmaster of a higher secondary school without a college degree.
Obviously she from a middle class family in India.

2. She had very good education and is really bright. She holds a good and a respetable position.

3. What is the need for proclaiming her "backward community" status?. Is she really backward?

4. Did she use the "backward" tag to get her daughters get ahead academically and professionally?

5. This lady and her daughter Meena are both light skinned. They already belong to the superior class in the Indian society which grants high status to the fair skinned ones.

6. Finally, this woman is exactly one of the "freeloaders" FF was referring to.

by Idéfix Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:45 pm

Natalia Romanova wrote:question... people who are anti-caste to the extent that they don't even wanna mention or question the caste of people they meet, are they against [caste-based] reservations too? If not, is that a double standard or there is another deeper reason to support it? If poverty is the reason, then shouldn't they be done based on that, and not caste?

What about ch'ers here? Views?

I don't ask people I meet for their caste, and I don't really want to know. I support caste-based reservations. I support them because caste is strongly correlated with economic status in India. (As in any correlation, there will be outliers).

Theoretically it makes sense to have reservations be based solely on economic considerations. But it is easy to fake poverty and low income in India, and there is no social stigma attached to such fakery. A rich businessman who produces a fake certificate of low income suffers no status reduction in the eyes of his peers. But there still is social stigma attached to being from a "lower" caste, which acts as a natural barrier that prevents "upper" caste people faking that they are dalits. Not only is the social stigma stronger if they are caught doing it, but the likelihood of getting caught is also higher, because in most small towns and villages everybody knows everybody's caste, while people may not know your financial circumstances as clearly. (Again there are outliers. Breasty Beauty may know some "upper" caste people who have pretended to be dailts for the sake of reservations).

by Maria S Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:06 pm

panini press wrote:

Theoretically it makes sense to have reservations be based solely on economic considerations. But it is easy to fake poverty and low income in India, and there is no social stigma attached to such fakery. A rich businessman who produces a fake certificate of low income suffers no status reduction in the eyes of his peers. But there still is social stigma attached to being from a "lower" caste, which acts as a natural barrier that prevents "upper" caste people faking that they are dalits. Not only is the social stigma stronger if they are caught doing it, but the likelihood of getting caught is also higher, because in most small towns and villages everybody knows everybody's caste, while people may not know your financial circumstances as clearly. (Again there are outliers. Breasty Beauty may know some "upper" caste people who have pretended to be dailts for the sake of reservations).

*Ditto* (except..for the breasty last line:)

And "freeloader/taking advantage" when it comes to using systems is in the eyes of the beholder..in ref to caste, everyone knows certain groups of people were able to take advantage of the system for years and years- just because others were denied most of the same opportunties.

Unfortunately, life is not fair..and no group can permanently have/control the advantages..and they point to others and say.."you freeloaders/folks who take advantage"..

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:13 pm

Maria S wrote:

And "freeloader/taking advantage" when it comes to using systems is in the eyes of the beholder..in ref to caste, everyone knows certain groups of people were able to take advantage of the system for years and years- just because others were denied most of the same opportunties.

that the system was corrupt one way in the past is no reason to continue to allow it to be corrupt the other way today. i am for increasing investments in K-12 education a hundred fold if that's what it takes for everyone to get everyone the same high quality education, while simultaneously eliminating reservations. two generations of reservation for any family should be more than sufficient for the govt to be able to tell them, no more.

if you don't know think there are freeloaders, then you don't know my friend who got in through the SC/ST category whose father was the governor of the RBI. and there were quite a number like him. i also had another friend whose pride prevented him from applying the reserved categories despite being eligible, and got in through the open quota with a sub 200 rank.

by MulaiAzhagi Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:22 pm

Breasty Beauty may know some "upper" caste people who have pretended to be dailts for the sake of reservations

===> I do not know personally any "upper" caste person who have pretended to be dailts for the sake of reservations.

BTW Max posted about his Brahmin relative who had married a Mudaliar lady. The man got his kids certified as belonging to Backward Caste. However, he makes sure they follow the orthodox Brahmin rituals of wearing the sacred thread and reciting mantras at home.

by Idéfix Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:25 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i am for increasing investments in K-12 education a hundred fold if that's what it takes for everyone to get everyone the same high quality education, while simultaneously eliminating reservations.

That would be ideal. But we cannot make the perfect the enemy of the pragmatic good.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:if you don't know think there are freeloaders, then you don't know my friend who got in through the SC/ST category whose father was the governor of the RBI. and there were quite a number like him. i also had another friend whose pride prevented him from applying the reserved categories despite being eligible, and got in through the open quota with a sub 200 rank.

I know examples that run both ways as well. But the creamy layer concept the Supreme Court put in place is a good way to overcome the most egregious of those violations. Children of businessmen and politicians (i.e. people who are not salaried) can still get past the creamy layer exemption with ease, but it has become harder for children of highly placed government employees to take advantage of quotas just because of their birth into a community that is on the whole disadvantaged compared to other communities.

by Idéfix Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:28 pm

MulaiAzhagi wrote:Breasty Beauty may know some "upper" caste people who have pretended to be dailts for the sake of reservations

===> I do not know personally any "upper" caste person who have pretended to be dailts for the sake of reservations.

BTW Max posted about his Brahmin relative who had married a Mudaliar lady. The man got his kids certified as belonging to Backward Caste. However, he makes sure they follow the orthodox Brahmin rituals of wearing the sacred thread and reciting mantras at home.

Cunning brahmin, trying to have the "best" of both worlds for his children. Reminds me of another guy who was trying to have the "best" of both worlds (aka paneer dosa) in Son of Edison, New Jersey, Texas.

by MulaiAzhagi Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:49 pm

Charvaka

What makes you think that I am against reservations for poor dalits or OBC?

by Idéfix Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:56 pm

MulaiAzhagi wrote:Charvaka

What makes you think that I am against reservations for poor dalits or OBC?

I don't think much about your views for or against reservations. If you say that you are not against those reservations, I will believe you.

by Maria S Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:08 pm

Don't think anyone is going to agree or change their views on this one!

I have nothing more to add..and have to conserve all the energy to take on some important stuff today!

Moving on to something light.

by Guest Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:54 pm

panini press wrote:
Natalia Romanova wrote:question... people who are anti-caste to the extent that they don't even wanna mention or question the caste of people they meet, are they against [caste-based] reservations too? If not, is that a double standard or there is another deeper reason to support it? If poverty is the reason, then shouldn't they be done based on that, and not caste?

What about ch'ers here? Views?
I don't ask people I meet for their caste, and I don't really want to know. I support caste-based reservations. I support them because caste is strongly correlated with economic status in India. (As in any correlation, there will be outliers).

Theoretically it makes sense to have reservations be based solely on economic considerations. But it is easy to fake poverty and low income in India, and there is no social stigma attached to such fakery. A rich businessman who produces a fake certificate of low income suffers no status reduction in the eyes of his peers. But there still is social stigma attached to being from a "lower" caste, which acts as a natural barrier that prevents "upper" caste people faking that they are dalits. Not only is the social stigma stronger if they are caught doing it, but the likelihood of getting caught is also higher, because in most small towns and villages everybody knows everybody's caste, while people may not know your financial circumstances as clearly. (Again there are outliers. Breasty Beauty may know some "upper" caste people who have pretended to be dailts for the sake of reservations).

it's the fuzzy OBC category that not many people feel bad about abusing.

by Idéfix Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:49 pm

Natalia Romanova wrote:it's the fuzzy OBC category that not many people feel bad about abusing.

My observation is that most "upper" caste people do not want to say that they belong to an "other backward caste" -- in Indian society there is still a sense of hierarchy, and anything "below" you is supposed to be inferior in one way or another.

by Guest Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:53 pm

panini press wrote:
Natalia Romanova wrote:it's the fuzzy OBC category that not many people feel bad about abusing.
My observation is that most "upper" caste people do not want to say that they belong to an "other backward caste" -- in Indian society there is still a sense of hierarchy, and anything "below" you is supposed to be inferior in one way or another.

Isn't it ironic that on one hand u are counting on 'higher' caste people to never abuse this system, and at the same time u r resenting them thinking that they are higher caste.

Something more got to be done in that system so that both the parties stop abusing this system, and stop feeling special about their caste, higher or lower. Get a scrict data system in place. Once u have got a job based on a quota, u are marked. No one in ur next generation can use it. period.

by Idéfix Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:19 pm

Natalia Romanova wrote:

Isn't it ironic that on one hand u are counting on 'higher' caste people to never abuse this system, and at the same time u r resenting them thinking that they are higher caste.

Yes, in an imperfect world, you can't have perfect solutions. Think about it this way... "upper" caste people can sabotage the entire reservation system. All they have to do is claim to be lower caste and get a certificate. If most "upper" caste people start claiming to be from "lower" castes, what is to stop them from using reservations? It is not like there is a national register where each person's caste is recorded. The very prejudice that necessitates a reservation system also sustains it, so yes, that much is ironic indeed.

Natalia Romanova wrote:

Something more got to be done in that system so that both the parties stop abusing this system, and stop feeling special about their caste, higher or lower. Get a scrict data system in place. Once u have got a job based on a quota, u are marked. No one in ur next generation can use it. period.

Yes, that would be theoretically better. But we know how these things work in India. Everything that can be subverted will be.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:23 pm

panini press wrote:My observation is that most "upper" caste people do not want to say that they belong to an "other backward caste" ...

i could tell you stories from my boyhood and reasons why i wanted to do precisely that, but won't bore you with them. small town TN is a whole other place from the rest of india. maybe i am just a tamil wacko.

by Guest Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:09 pm

panini press wrote:
Natalia Romanova wrote:

Isn't it ironic that on one hand u are counting on 'higher' caste people to never abuse this system, and at the same time u r resenting them thinking that they are higher caste.
Yes, in an imperfect world, you can't have perfect solutions. Think about it this way... "upper" caste people can sabotage the entire reservation system. All they have to do is claim to be lower caste and get a certificate. If most "upper" caste people start claiming to be from "lower" castes, what is to stop them from using reservations? It is not like there is a national register where each person's caste is recorded. The very prejudice that necessitates a reservation system also sustains it, so yes, that much is ironic indeed.

Natalia Romanova wrote:

Something more got to be done in that system so that both the parties stop abusing this system, and stop feeling special about their caste, higher or lower. Get a scrict data system in place. Once u have got a job based on a quota, u are marked. No one in ur next generation can use it. period.
Yes, that would be theoretically better. But we know how these things work in India. Everything that can be subverted will be.

I have a very different mindset. When it comes to politics, anything that is based upon compromise and/or coercion and/or injustice for any group will never sustain in the long run. That includes that fasting gig. Never supported it. Short term solutions do more harm.

Ideology is what does work in the long run. At least have the theories right, even if it takes a 100 year to attain it. US constitution wrote 'equality to all' loooooong before it was really achieved. Point is, at least it was written by some foreseer. The more people got that right, the more they made changes happen, in the right direction. Imagine what would have happened in this country if someone had said - give more rights to blacks for 1 or 2 generations sacrificing the rights of whites, and we will then try to flip it back. more bloodshed?

by Guest Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:38 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
panini press wrote:My observation is that most "upper" caste people do not want to say that they belong to an "other backward caste" ...

i could tell you stories from my boyhood and reasons why i wanted to do precisely that, but won't bore you with them. small town TN is a whole other place from the rest of india. maybe i am just a tamil wacko.

I've been to your hometown (Thanjavur, if i am right) recently, max. The Brihadeeswara temple there is awesome! amazing that it was built 1000 yrs ago.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:50 pm

kinnera wrote:

I've been to your hometown (Thanjavur, if i am right) recently, max. The Brihadeeswara temple there is awesome! amazing that it was built 1000 yrs ago.

yeah the brihadeeswara temple is quite awesome. meet any interesting tamil wackos?

by Guest Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:01 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
kinnera wrote:

I've been to your hometown (Thanjavur, if i am right) recently, max. The Brihadeeswara temple there is awesome! amazing that it was built 1000 yrs ago.

yeah the brihadeeswara temple is quite awesome. meet any interesting tamil wackos?

yes she did, if I may answer for her. sorta... dowry seeking tamil wackos.

by Guest Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:17 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
kinnera wrote:

I've been to your hometown (Thanjavur, if i am right) recently, max. The Brihadeeswara temple there is awesome! amazing that it was built 1000 yrs ago.

yeah the brihadeeswara temple is quite awesome. meet any interesting tamil wackos?

Yeah, I did Smile

. Don't want to go into details.

by Guest Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:01 pm

kinnera wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
kinnera wrote:

I've been to your hometown (Thanjavur, if i am right) recently, max. The Brihadeeswara temple there is awesome! amazing that it was built 1000 yrs ago.

yeah the brihadeeswara temple is quite awesome. meet any interesting tamil wackos?

Yeah, I did . Don't want to go into details.

Not wackos. I saw Ilaya Raja at Ramanashramam (Thiruvannamalai) and Vishwanathan Anand on my flight to Chennai.

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