Stereo Typing a Brahmin…

by MulaiAzhagi Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:27 pm

I often get asked “Why did you brahmins treat us lower caste people badly? Untouchables huh? You deserve it all!” kind of statements. Its very very funny because i have to travel back in time using a time machine and find out which loser great grand father of mine abused which lower caste person, hand cuff him and probably in a shariya style punishment execute him or something, perhaps that would chill down these questions and statements.

http://chennai.metblogs.com/2007/11/12/stereo-typing-a-brahmin/#more-1406

by truthbetold Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:08 pm

Don't forget how reservations stole educations of your well deserved.cousins. self pity.
The collective responsibility of caste hindus cannot be confused by such innocent sounding arguments.

by Merlot Daruwala Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:08 am

truthbetold wrote:The collective responsibility of caste hindus cannot be confused by such innocent sounding arguments.

TBT, there's no confusion, except perhaps in your mind. Individuals supposedly belonging to forward castes today don't bear any responsibility or liability for the sins of their forefathers. Just to be clear, reservations are not some form of collective penalty borne by the forward castes as atonement for historical sins. They are merely a leg up for the historically disadvantaged.

by truthbetold Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:57 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
truthbetold wrote:The collective responsibility of caste hindus cannot be confused by such innocent sounding arguments.

TBT, there's no confusion, except perhaps in your mind. Individuals supposedly belonging to forward castes today don't bear any responsibility or liability for the sins of their forefathers. Just to be clear, reservations are not some form of collective penalty borne by the forward castes as atonement for historical sins. They are merely a leg up for the historically disadvantaged.

Really. What is meant by historically disadvantaged mean? Who are the tax payers footing the bill? Suddenly it is a helpinghand that ambedkar sought not a historical correction of past misdeeds. Some revisionist history.

by Merlot Daruwala Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:56 am

truthbetold wrote:Really. What is meant by historically disadvantaged mean?

"Historically disadvantaged" refers to the downtrodden sections of society which were systematically denied opportunities for individual betterment on the basis of their caste for millenia.

truthbetold wrote:Who are the tax payers footing the bill?

There is no special expense being incurred for reserving a certain % of seats for some section. Even if you were to argue that the government has to create additional educational infrastructure so that those reservations don't hamper others' opportunities, the incremental tax burden is borne by all taxpayers regardless of caste and religion. Brahmins or forward castes do not pay any special forward caste surcharge as far as I know.

truthbetold wrote:Suddenly it is a helpinghand that ambedkar sought not a historical correction of past misdeeds. Some revisionist history.

Ambedkar's rationale for reservation was always the amelioration of the downtrodden classes, and never the penalization of the forward castes. You seem to have drunk some Kancha Ilaiah-brand koolaid.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:49 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

There is no special expense being incurred for reserving a certain % of seats for some section.

there is an opportunity cost to society for not allowing the most meritorious and talented people receive the highest quality education and training that they can potentially receive.

by garam_kuta Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:00 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:

There is no special expense being incurred for reserving a certain % of seats for some section.

there is an opportunity cost to society for not allowing the most meritorious and talented people receive the highest quality education and training that they can potentially receive.

Isn't that a negligible price to pay when Reservation is the ~~optimal, no the~~ only solution to make India as the one country where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking and all the children are above average. study

by Merlot Daruwala Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:24 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:

There is no special expense being incurred for reserving a certain % of seats for some section.

there is an opportunity cost to society for not allowing the most meritorious and talented people receive the highest quality education and training that they can potentially receive.

With the exception of TN where reservations have reached levels which Ambedkar himself said were undesirable, everywhere else, the most meritorious still get the opportunities they deserve.

If 40 out of 100 seats are reserved, it's fallacious to view that as a reduction in opportunity for others. After all, no such thought would have crossed your mind if there were only 60 available seats to begin with.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:33 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

With the exception of TN where reservations have reached levels which Ambedkar himself said were undesirable, everywhere else, the most meritorious still get the opportunities they deserve.

and it is from that vantage point that i speak.

Merlot Daruwala wrote:If 40 out of 100 seats are reserved, it's fallacious to view that as a reduction in opportunity for others. After all, no such thought would have crossed your mind if there were only 60 available seats to begin with.

if there's a fallacy in reasoning here, i don't think it's mine. i start with the premise that class size is optimized subject to the constraints of available resources. so class size is not even relevant to the discussion.

by MulaiAzhagi Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:46 pm

===> Seriously speaking, I favor setting aside for women at least 60% of the seats in medical colleges.

We need lot more female OB/GYN and pediatricians in India.

Never heard of female OB/GYN and pediatricians who abused their patients.

by indophile Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:27 pm

What happens to the engineering, medical and other professional seats obtained through reservations when the beneficieries drop out of school because of academic reasons? Do they put them back in open competition?

I was thinking of Thomas Jefferson High School in Fairfax, VA in the Washington suburbs. It's considered as one of the best schools in the country, and admission there is purely based on merit and an entrance exam. If a student gets in, say in the 9th grade, can't stand the rigor and fails to cut the mustard, and drops back to his area school, his position is thrown open as a 10th grade admission for everyone in the county.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:37 pm

Reminds me of the schools in the great land of Kansaaas.

Here the IB programs are run by the school districts - there are only a handful in the state. there is an entrance exam, then interview invitation for the selected ones+the parents+ then the class is picked at 6th grade, then the process is repeated again in the 9th grade. Usually, there are some 500 applicants for 50 seats at 6th grade and then 500+ for a class of 90 at grade 9. Almost always, the graduating class goes to colleges across the country from Harvard, Yale, Stanford to Berkeley and Oxford. Almost 100% go onto college. Almost all end up with (at least) partial scholarship someplace and start as a sophomore with 30+ credits This is almost like the Indian private school and the kids are shown no mercy and thrown out. An 89.9 is a B+ - sorry no dice. But, I agree...there are hardly any blacks and the one or two drop out at 11th (junior) and revert to the regular school. The classes are filled with Whites, and Pseudo whites.

And of course, the stupid Kansans have no idea that they have one of the best school systems in the country and never advertise that huge advantage.

P.S. there is ONE big drawback for students in these programs which they realize only after graduating.

by MulaiAzhagi Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:21 pm

there is ONE big drawback for students in these programs which they realize only after graduating

===> I guess not all colleges let you transfer IB courses. They accept AP courses.

by truthbetold Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:15 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Really. What is meant by historically disadvantaged mean?

"Historically disadvantaged" refers to the downtrodden sections of society which were systematically denied opportunities for individual betterment on the basis of their caste for millenia.
Merlot
in your own words you stated the problem is caused by caste hindus. The political leadership of caste hindus compromised with ambedkar to give reservations so that they can buy peace and the right to run the country for their own benefit.

truthbetold wrote:Who are the tax payers footing the bill?

There is no special expense being incurred for reserving a certain % of seats for some section. Even if you were to argue that the government has to create additional educational infrastructure so that those reservations don't hamper others' opportunities, the incremental tax burden is borne by all taxpayers regardless of caste and religion. Brahmins or forward castes do not pay any special forward caste surcharge as far as I know.
merlot
some level of honesty is required to have a discussion. It is utter nonsense to suggest an engg or med seat costs nothing. Ask ap govt that is going bonkers to pay fees hostel bills book costs for reservation students.
It is laughble to say everybody is paying taxes. Who owns property and well paying jobs in india. Who pays taxes in india. More than 90% is paid by caste hindus.
Whether an ordinary brahminor caste person sat at the table or not the nehrus the patels the rajajis ogindia agreed to collective punishment of reservation so that can rule india.

truthbetold wrote:Suddenly it is a helpinghand that ambedkar sought not a historical correction of past misdeeds. Some revisionist history.

Ambedkar's rationale for reservation was always the amelioration of the downtrodden classes, and never the penalization of the forward castes. You seem to have drunk some Kancha Ilaiah-brand koolaid.

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