Pakistan: Valley of Wine

by Guest Sun May 22, 2011 10:40 am

A liberal outlook and festivals where social norms are turned upside down set the Kalash people of north-western Pakistan apart from the rest of the country. But their culture is under threat as Nosheen Abbas found out.

Entering the Rumbur valley, Pakistan, with all of its violence and militancy, felt like it was left behind. No electricity, phone signals or newspaper stands are to be found in the village of Balanguru, precarious and beautiful, perched between mountains.

Preparations for the Joshi (spring) festival were well under way when I visited: women and men were sitting chatting together, brewing the wine to be drunk, stitching colourful outfits, and on the eve of the celebrations, beating a drum late into the night while dancing.

"Parents don't let their small children drink, but by 13 or 14 you can start drinking here," said Jamrat, one young Kalashi, while another 18-year-old girl was too drunk on festival eve to give an interview.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13466250

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun May 22, 2011 11:33 am

Rashmun wrote:A liberal outlook and festivals where social norms are turned upside down set the Kalash people of north-western Pakistan apart from the rest of the country. But their culture is under threat as Nosheen Abbas found out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13466250

One girl told me that more Kalash girls convert, and it generally happens when they get married.

Leave it to The Evil religion to kill anything that is normal in this world.

by Guest Sun May 22, 2011 11:56 am

the kalash people have been advertised -- largely by the western media -- as a microcosm of whites, living in a land of the orient. in reality they are just a tribal bunch with tribal customs like the many other tribes in the several nooks and valleys of that himalayan-karakoram belt. and they are no way "typically" white (blonde and blue-eyed) as portrayed. and they have no religion. so there is no conversion as such that you accuse the evil religion of inveigling them into.

by Guest Sun May 22, 2011 12:11 pm

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:the kalash people have been advertised -- largely by the western media -- as a microcosm of whites, living in a land of the orient. in reality they are just a tribal bunch with tribal customs like the many other tribes in the several nooks and valleys of that himalayan-karakoram belt. and they are no way "typically" white (blonde and blue-eyed) as portrayed. and they have no religion. so there is no conversion as such that you accuse the evil religion of inveigling them into.

--> what do you mean 'they have no religion'? They seem to have their own tribal religion.

Parents don't let their small children drink, but by 13 or 14 you can start drinking here," said Jamrat, one young Kalashi, while another 18-year-old girl was too drunk on festival eve to give an interview.

This is far removed from ordinary Pakistani life where most people adhere to an Islamic code, shunning drink and dance. The Kalash, on the other hand, worship their own gods.

by Guest Sun May 22, 2011 12:18 pm

ok. was there a conversion when, say, let me think, when kanishka became buddhist? is that conversion recorded anywhere? why not? however, babur converted many hindus to islam. it is recorded.

by Guest Sun May 22, 2011 12:33 pm

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:ok. was there a conversion when, say, let me think, when kanishka became buddhist? is that conversion recorded anywhere? why not? however, babur converted many hindus to islam. it is recorded.

i don't see the relevance of kanishka's conversation when he became a budhist to the issue being discussed. With respect to Babur, if he would have indeed converted many hindus to Islam he would have mentioned it in his autobiography but the fact is that he does not.

by Guest Sun May 22, 2011 12:37 pm

Rashmun wrote:i don't see the relevance of kanishka's conversation when he became a budhist to the issue being discussed.

can you kindly repeat the issue being discussed or you would want to be discussed.

With respect to Babur, if he would have indeed converted many hindus to Islam he would have mentioned it in his autobiography but the fact is that he does not.

guru nanak recorded his atrocities. he called his reign a mayhem on hindu women and children.

by Guest Sun May 22, 2011 12:41 pm

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Rashmun wrote:i don't see the relevance of kanishka's conversation when he became a budhist to the issue being discussed.

can you kindly repeat the issue being discussed or you would want to be discussed.

With respect to Babur, if he would have indeed converted many hindus to Islam he would have mentioned it in his autobiography but the fact is that he does not.

guru nanak recorded his atrocities. he called his reign a mayhem on hindu women and children.

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I wanted to discuss the unique culture of the Kalash people and the possibility that Kalash culture may not survive very long. But it appears you are more interested in talking about Kanishka and Babur. If so, may i suggest that you create a new thread.

by Guest Sun May 22, 2011 1:07 pm

Rashmun wrote:I wanted to discuss the unique culture of the Kalash people and the possibility that Kalash culture may not survive very long. But it appears you are more interested in talking about Kanishka and Babur. If so, may i suggest that you create a new thread.

i will repeat. kalash is yet another tribal culture that has hardly been insular since the dawn of mankind (like you would like to believe -- that they were insular) nor steeped in hellenistic traditions (like the western media might want us to believe). a large portion of them have already been assimilated. a small fragment remains. this bugle call should have been made when the larger fragment had begun getting assimilated by the neighbours (that is if you can at all demarcate their boundary). the people have no oral or written tradition that can support the idea that they have been following something faithfully for the last several thousand years. they are yet another tribal people that have been exoticised by the west. there is nothing magical about the kalash. if it were so, then there is something magical everywhere -- the bnei manashe of mizoram are one of the lost tribes of israel; jesus resurrected and is entombed in kashmir; alexander met buddha.

show me some concrete and unique kalash culture. i am open to ideas. banishing a pubescent boy to the hills to live with goats is not a unique or fantastic culture. allowing the women to have conjugal union with a pubescent boy is not a unique or old or whatever culture. sorry if i am sounding a bit condescending about the kalash. but there has to be some substance. i mean i must know what exactly are you trying to preserve?

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