pandit ravi shankar no more

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:37 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/13/arts/music/ravi-shankar-indian-sitarist-dies-at-92.html

by Rishi Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:11 am

When Ravi Shankar was 52, he had a female student who was 16. The parents of the girl trusted him. He was old enough to be her father. Because he was very famous, the impressionable child held him in awe. He seduced her and later married her. The pandit abused the authority. Even if the girl had developed feelings for him, as a responsible and mature adult, he should have stopped her.

Imagine how the parents of the 16 year old kid might have felt. They had dreams and hopes for her. He dashed them all.

So what if he was highly talented and world famous?

by indophile Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:40 am

I wonder why they call him Pundit Ravi Shankar with a name like Robindra Shankar Coudhary (a typical Kayasth name).

by southindian Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:50 am

Rishi wrote:When Ravi Shankar was 52, he had a female student who was 16. The parents of the girl trusted him. He was old enough to be her father. Because he was very famous, the impressionable child held him in awe. He seduced her and later married her. The pandit abused the authority. Even if the girl had developed feelings for him, as a responsible and mature adult, he should have stopped her.

Imagine how the parents of the 16 year old kid might have felt. They had dreams and hopes for her. He dashed them all.

So what if he was highly talented and world famous?

Pandit Ravi Shankar was a womaniser much like many famous artists. He had more women than all men combined on SuCh. Many times more, may be many hundreds.

I'm surprised no women came up with his child from Europe, because Europe was his more favorite and visiting place for concerts and women.

by Guest Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:58 am

indophile wrote:I wonder why they call him Pundit Ravi Shankar with a name like Robindra Shankar Coudhary (a typical Kayasth name).

Wiki says he was Bengali Brahmin.

by indophile Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:12 am

Okay, I did not know he was Bengali.

by Seva Lamberdar Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:36 am

indophile wrote:I wonder why they call him Pundit Ravi Shankar with a name like Robindra Shankar Coudhary (a typical Kayasth name).

May R.S. Rest in Peace.

The original / generic use of Pandit as a titlle seems to be for any scholar or specially trained person. Thus R.S. qualifies for the title of Pandit no matter what his birth caste.

by Guest Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:42 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
indophile wrote:I wonder why they call him Pundit Ravi Shankar with a name like Robindra Shankar Coudhary (a typical Kayasth name).

May R.S. Rest in Peace.

The original / generic use of Pandit as a titlle seems to be for any scholar or specially trained person. Thus R.S. qualifies for the title of Pandit no matter what his birth caste.

u misunderstand the question. The question is: Why is he called Pandit Ravi Shankar and not Pandit Robindro Shaunkor Chowdhury ( since Robindro Shaunkor Chowdhury is his real name).

by Seva Lamberdar Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:51 am

Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
indophile wrote:I wonder why they call him Pundit Ravi Shankar with a name like Robindra Shankar Coudhary (a typical Kayasth name).

May R.S. Rest in Peace.

The original / generic use of Pandit as a titlle seems to be for any scholar or specially trained person. Thus R.S. qualifies for the title of Pandit no matter what his birth caste.

u misunderstand the question. The question is: Why is he called Pandit Ravi Shankar and not Pandit Robindro Shaunkor Chowdhury ( since Robindro Shaunkor Chowdhury is his real name).

because Indo put the emphasis on his Kayasth (family) name (a typical Kayasth name).

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:02 am

the simplification of his name is to make it easier on western tongues i think. the honorific pandit is applied to any accomplished hindu hindustani musician regardless of caste. accomplished muslim musicians are always called ustad so and so.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:05 am

i liked RS's music just fine, but he is by no means top of my list of hindustani instrumentalists. that place belongs to the late pandit nikhil banerjee who learned music from baba allaudin khan after ravi shankar had left his gurukul. he might have been allaudin khan's last student.

by indophile Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:54 am

Sometimes "pundit" is used as derogatory too. When Indira Gandhi was shot down, one of my friend's neighbors in Delhi, an elderly Sikh woman, knocked on my friends' door and asked if she could use their phone (back in thosedays there were no cellphones). And when told okay, she called her friend and excitedly informed her/him - "panditaani margayi!"

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:28 pm

indophile wrote:Sometimes "pundit" is used as derogatory too. When Indira Gandhi was shot down, one of my friend's neighbors in Delhi, an elderly Sikh woman, knocked on my friends' door and asked if she could use their phone (back in thosedays there were no cellphones). And when told okay, she called her friend and excitedly informed her/him - "panditaani margayi!"

could that be because nehru was referred to often as pandit nehru and she was his daughter? aside: i don't think in this case pandit is a reference to nehru's learnedness but the fact that the nehru family if of kashmiri pandit extraction.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:59 pm

India's influence on the world was always through her "soft" power - culture, tradition, knowledge, etc. The Subbulakshmis, Vivekanandas and Ravi Shankars, are some examples.

Thanks to DKheads and CONartists, that era of India is coming to a grinding halt. The new ambassadors of India's culture now are Laloo, Khalmadi, Raja, et al.

Garibi Hatao.

by Seva Lamberdar Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:59 pm

indophile wrote:Sometimes "pundit" is used as derogatory too. When Indira Gandhi was shot down, one of my friend's neighbors in Delhi, an elderly Sikh woman, knocked on my friends' door and asked if she could use their phone (back in thosedays there were no cellphones). And when told okay, she called her friend and excitedly informed her/him - "panditaani margayi!"

Pandit is not used as the derogatory word. The use of "panditaani" (the feminine of Pandit and used generally for a Pandit's wife) in the above (for Mrs. Gandhi) is more in the sense of her "brahminical" roots / caste. Btw a female scholar would be called a Pandit and not Panditaani.

by Idéfix Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:21 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:India's influence on the world was always through her "soft" power - culture, tradition, knowledge, etc. The Subbulakshmis, Vivekanandas and Ravi Shankars, are some examples.

Thanks to DKheads and CONartists, that era of India is coming to a grinding halt. The new ambassadors of India's culture now are Laloo, Khalmadi, Raja, et al.

Garibi Hatao.

Guruvu-gaaru, the new ambassadors of India's culture now are people like Aish, SRK, Sachin, et al. Indian movies are regularly scheduled in one of the theaters a few miles from my place, and our place is not even in an Indian-dominated neighborhood. Nobody here has heard of the Laloos, Kalmadis and Rajas you obsess about.

by pravalika nanda Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:09 pm

Rishi wrote:When Ravi Shankar was 52, he had a female student who was 16. The parents of the girl trusted him. He was old enough to be her father. Because he was very famous, the impressionable child held him in awe. He seduced her and later married her. The pandit abused the authority. Even if the girl had developed feelings for him, as a responsible and mature adult, he should have stopped her.

**if this is true, then it is pedophilia, it's a crime. why aren't more people talking about it?

Imagine how the parents of the 16 year old kid might have felt. They had dreams and hopes for her. He dashed them all.

So what if he was highly talented and world famous?

by Guest Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:01 pm

Rishi wrote:When Ravi Shankar was 52, he had a female student who was 16. The parents of the girl trusted him. He was old enough to be her father. Because he was very famous, the impressionable child held him in awe. He seduced her and later married her. The pandit abused the authority. Even if the girl had developed feelings for him, as a responsible and mature adult, he should have stopped her.

pravalika nanda wrote:

**if this is true, then it is pedophilia, it's a crime. why aren't more people talking about it?

She was 33 and he was 69 then they got married. Their daughter, Anoushka, was already a 5-6 yr old at the time. The woman was married, but since she was in love with shankar, she left her husband and came back to him when she was 26. Then had a child with him too. They married after she got divorced from her husband. She's a UK based indian and is a dancer too. Looks pretty! As they say, love is blind. They got married in Hyderabad, btw. Dancer Sumati Kaushal (actress Bhanupriya's MIL) took care of their wedding.

by pravalika nanda Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:14 pm

kinnera wrote:
Rishi wrote:When Ravi Shankar was 52, he had a female student who was 16. The parents of the girl trusted him. He was old enough to be her father. Because he was very famous, the impressionable child held him in awe. He seduced her and later married her. The pandit abused the authority. Even if the girl had developed feelings for him, as a responsible and mature adult, he should have stopped her.
pravalika nanda wrote:

**if this is true, then it is pedophilia, it's a crime. why aren't more people talking about it?

She was 33 and he was 69 then they got married. Their daughter, Anoushka, was already a 5-6 yr old at the time. The woman was married, but since she was in love with shankar, she left her husband and came back to him when she was 26. Then had a child with him too. They married after she got divorced from her husband. She's a UK based indian and is a dancer too. Looks pretty! As they say, love is blind. They got married in Hyderabad, btw. Dancer Sumati Kaushal (actress Bhanupriya's MIL) took care of their wedding.

**ah, so 16-yr-old girl meets this musical beast, gets married to the average citizen, but leaves him at the age of 26 to reuinte with the beast, has a child with him and marries him six years later after the divorce with the average citizen goes through.

**just like sumati kaushal and her types to get involved in this kind of business to score points with famous people. you have to watch out for these dance-drama teachers. it's a pity that an actress of bhanupriya's caliber had to settle for her son. clearly, she works hard and is the breadwinner of that family.

**you know, these men really frighten me. take the average indian man - they're typically farmers, they till the soil, or work at some dusty construction site, they come back home at night and they want their fish pulusu and their alcohol and they might cheat on their wife b/c they have no education, not much culture, or moral upbringing. then you have these nerdy bengali men and their literature and their music and their anglicization and their cooking and all they do is sleep around, have multiple marriages. it's disgusting. they don't even work hard. at least men in the village will wake up at the rooster's cock-a-doodle-do, till the earth, plant the seeds, sweat in the heat, hunt for small game, worry about their crops, protect their lands, their hands have calluses from this, they have no time for education and culture b/c they live life on the edge (of poverty), so sometimes they go to the bar and may be unfaithful in their marriages. nowadays, so-called men will talk about panniyarams and punctuation and manicures and women in sleazy terms, such a shame, how will these kind of men protect the borders? or save a human being in distress? i suppose we must do it ourselves.

**getting back to this reptilian-looking person, i've never heard his music, but i like norah jones.

by truthbetold Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:53 pm

Not a single mention of his role in spreading the Indian music around the world. Whether he is the best musician or not is a secondary issue . He was most recognized face of Indian music and opened the door for many other artists to show their talent in the west.

That whole discussion whether he was a Brahmin or not is a poor indicator of one's civil attitude.

It is difficult to imagine sitar playing Indian musician as a womanizer. But one knows what is behind the curtain till it is revealed.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:03 pm

truthbetold wrote:Not a single mention of his role in spreading the Indian music around the world.

i thought the NYT article i linked to originally covered all that in great detail.

in any case as a fan of indian classical music, i primarily judge a musician's worth by his music, not his ambassadorial role. and of the sitar trimurthis the order of preference for me is nikhil banerjee > vilayat khan > ravi shankar. the other two gentlemen on that list IMO were superior musicians, but probably did not have the PR skills and stage presence of RS.

and speaking of playing musical ambassador, there were others who were influential too - ali akbar khan, subbulakshmi, l.shankar, viku vinayakram, and zakir hussain. and ali akbar khan who was baba allaudin khan's son (both RS and AAK learned from allaudin khan) has served the cause of indian classical music more effectively through his school in san rafael, california.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:13 pm

truthbetold wrote:

It is difficult to imagine sitar playing Indian musician as a womanizer. But one knows what is behind the curtain till it is revealed.

huh? RS's philandering ways and multiple marriages were very well known.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:23 pm

oh and one more thing, i don't like to listen to RS's recordings post the 1980's because he was already on his way down and quite unfortunately for his legacy, he continued playing way past the point when he should have stopped concertizing in public. the circus activities with his massively undertalented daughter anoushka shankar could have been avoided. such a pity.

by pravalika nanda Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:24 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:

It is difficult to imagine sitar playing Indian musician as a womanizer. But one knows what is behind the curtain till it is revealed.

huh? RS's philandering ways and multiple marriages were very well known.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-02-18/man-woman/31051588_1_pandit-ravi-shankar-sitar-legend-panditji

** in that article they're called "bohemian lovers" and they believe in "free love" et cetera. and they might have fudged sukanya's age to 18, to make it kosher and less criminal but something must've happened. she's clearly also a nut, so easily impressed by his fame, he's not even barack obama. so he played the sukanya, big shyt.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:29 pm

allaudin's boys in concert together. they were concertizing quite a bit together to raise funds for the newly founded nation of bangladesh those days:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1nKVExbewM

by Rishi Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:49 pm

pravalika nanda wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:

It is difficult to imagine sitar playing Indian musician as a womanizer. But one knows what is behind the curtain till it is revealed.

huh? RS's philandering ways and multiple marriages were very well known.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-02-18/man-woman/31051588_1_pandit-ravi-shankar-sitar-legend-panditji

** in that article they're called "bohemian lovers" and they believe in "free love" et cetera. and they might have fudged sukanya's age to 18, to make it kosher and less criminal but something must've happened. she's clearly also a nut, so easily impressed by his fame, he's not even barack obama. so he played the sukanya, big shyt.

Shankar says she has been curious about whether he was ever involved with a woman younger than her. "He said there was but he wouldn't reveal her name!"

by pravalika nanda Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:00 pm

Rishi wrote:
pravalika nanda wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:

It is difficult to imagine sitar playing Indian musician as a womanizer. But one knows what is behind the curtain till it is revealed.

huh? RS's philandering ways and multiple marriages were very well known.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-02-18/man-woman/31051588_1_pandit-ravi-shankar-sitar-legend-panditji

** in that article they're called "bohemian lovers" and they believe in "free love" et cetera. and they might have fudged sukanya's age to 18, to make it kosher and less criminal but something must've happened. she's clearly also a nut, so easily impressed by his fame, he's not even barack obama. so he played the sukanya, big shyt.

Shankar says she has been curious about whether he was ever involved with a woman younger than her. "He said there was but he wouldn't reveal her name!"

**okay, rishi, no more of this salacious stuff. try to enjoy this great hindu indian's music that he learned from some muslim guy named khan while his muse was the tambram sukanya, all which propelled indian music to fame abroad, which is what we want. it's synthesis on more levels than i can count: north-south, east-west, hindu-muslim, different generations. he is a great man whose greatness musn't be tarnished by his free love, pedophilia stuff. let us protect this great indian's reputation.

by truthbetold Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:37 pm

Max,
I am aware of his multiple marriages and Nora jones story. But I did not hear tiger woods side of the story. As long as he did not break law, it could be considered amusing but it is not my business.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:43 pm

truthbetold wrote: As long as he did not break law, it could be considered amusing but it is not my business.

i didn't say it was, so why this unnecessary sanctimony?

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