mrs bagchi,

bw wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i know women who would be offended that the sum being expended on the necklace is too little.

damn. i haven't got a necklace, expensive or cheap. let me go get offended for that before i start questioning the amount spent.

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

artood2 wrote:

bw wrote:

artood2 wrote:

bw wrote:

why is this offensive?

because he did not account for inflation.

you mean, 9 lacs doesn't buy one much these days?

yeah. "naulakha haar" was promised long ago. There was a Hindi movie by that name in 1953. 60 years and no increase in valuation has to be offensive to someone. We finally found that someone.

I should have been money minded when I was younger. Too late to regret now.

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:Do lyrics matter when the hero is clearly harassing the heroine? Should the victim of the harassment feel very good that the lyrics were "harmless" and sung very melodiously by an approved singer?

Lyrics do matter when it comes to roadside Romeos harassing girls by singing these songs. It is one thing to sing Lal chadi maidan khadi and another to sing dalunga dalunga Sajni main dalunga. The first is harmless while the second is definitely offensive.

both are 'harmless' if all they do is sing but it doesn't really matter what they sing - they have no business harassing a person if all this loveydoveyness isn't encouraged and reciprocated.

Lal chadi maidan khadi the shammi kapoor song is an iconic song and I met an old aunt recently who said she would be teased by roadside Romeos when she would wear a red dress at the time the song was released. This came up because we were watching old Hindi movie songs together. From I could gather she found it mildly annoying. And yet here she was happy to watch shammi kapoor in the song once again.

artood2 wrote:

bw wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i know women who would be offended that the sum being expended on the necklace is too little.

damn. i haven't got a necklace, expensive or cheap. let me go get offended for that before i start questioning the amount spent.

You missed your window of opportunity.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the stadium stood up upon seeing a red tree? doesn't make any sense.

Vidya Bagchi wrote:lal chhadi = red stick
maidan khadi = standing on the ground

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:Do lyrics matter when the hero is clearly harassing the heroine? Should the victim of the harassment feel very good that the lyrics were "harmless" and sung very melodiously by an approved singer?

Lyrics do matter when it comes to roadside Romeos harassing girls by singing these songs. It is one thing to sing Lal chadi maidan khadi and another to sing dalunga dalunga Sajni main dalunga. The first is harmless while the second is definitely offensive.

both are 'harmless' if all they do is sing but it doesn't really matter what they sing - they have no business harassing a person if all this loveydoveyness isn't encouraged and reciprocated.

Lal chadi maidan khadi the shammi kapoor song is an iconic song and I met an old aunt recently who said she would be teased by roadside Romeos when she would wear a red dress at the time the song was released. This came up because we were watching old Hindi movie songs together. From I could gather she found it mildly annoying. And yet here she was happy to watch shammi kapoor in the song once again.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the stadium stood up upon seeing a red tree? doesn't make any sense.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:lal chhadi = red stick
maidan khadi = standing on the ground

still don't get it. must be some cultural innuendo that i'm missing. so chhadi is stick, not tree?

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:Do lyrics matter when the hero is clearly harassing the heroine? Should the victim of the harassment feel very good that the lyrics were "harmless" and sung very melodiously by an approved singer?

Lyrics do matter when it comes to roadside Romeos harassing girls by singing these songs. It is one thing to sing Lal chadi maidan khadi and another to sing dalunga dalunga Sajni main dalunga. The first is harmless while the second is definitely offensive.

both are 'harmless' if all they do is sing but it doesn't really matter what they sing - they have no business harassing a person if all this loveydoveyness isn't encouraged and reciprocated.

Lal chadi maidan khadi the shammi kapoor song is an iconic song and I met an old aunt recently who said she would be teased by roadside Romeos when she would wear a red dress at the time the song was released. This came up because we were watching old Hindi movie songs together. From I could gather she found it mildly annoying. And yet here she was happy to watch shammi kapoor in the song once again.

your aunt may have found it mildly annoying but there may be others who find it more than mildly annoying. my point is that lyrics and the song have nothing to do it. also, these roadside romeos aren't exactly shammi kapoors and other assorted heartthrobs of the time though they like to imagine themselves to be so.

bw wrote:he calls her a stick? a red stick? how unromantic.

bw wrote:he calls her a stick? a red stick? how unromantic.

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:he calls her a stick? a red stick? how unromantic.

There is a deliberate ambiguity involved in the song since he is holding a red stick in his hand.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:now i'm going to date myself, but here is one from my era with the same stick theme:

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:he calls her a stick? a red stick? how unromantic.

There is a deliberate ambiguity involved in the song since he is holding a red stick in his hand.

he really should have been holding something else, maybe a red flower of something - a stick? bah!

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:he calls her a stick? a red stick? how unromantic.

There is a deliberate ambiguity involved in the song since he is holding a red stick in his hand.

he really should have been holding something else, maybe a red flower of something - a stick? bah!

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:now i'm going to date myself, but here is one from my era with the same stick theme:

hated this song... also the other that goes 'chikni chikni patli kamar aise na hila' that came out later for the same movie.... all my friends in my 11th-12th class would tease me with that song, coz I hated it. By that time they had witnessed all kinds of stalking being done on me by boys in coaching classes. And at the time had a very tiny waist (haha). So any girl would jump on me from behind, grabbing my waist with one hand and sing this. ugh.

Anyways, the one I literally didn't like much later was this one. Song is 'fine', but the video is something else.

artood2 wrote:

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:he calls her a stick? a red stick? how unromantic.

There is a deliberate ambiguity involved in the song since he is holding a red stick in his hand.

he really should have been holding something else, maybe a red flower of something - a stick? bah!

ahh.. you got mildly annoyed too. It is the song not the taporis.

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
thank you. i watched it when you first posted it, and thought it was pure harassment. most of all, i marveled at the woman - you - who dug up that video and wanted to share it with others here. what was your intent?

haha, I knew this would come to that. My song postings come without any particular intent, and they rarely suggest my mood (or message) of the day. Some random song gets triggered in my head, and then it stays there. So I find that song on youtube, and post it here.

In this particular case, don't remember what may have triggered it, since it was a month ago. Quite likely I was saying those lines to someone who was saying bye.

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
thank you. i watched it when you first posted it, and thought it was pure harassment. most of all, i marveled at the woman - you - who dug up that video and wanted to share it with others here. what was your intent?

haha, I knew this would come to that. My song postings come without any particular intent, and they rarely suggest my mood (or message) of the day. Some random song gets triggered in my head, and then it stays there. So I find that song on youtube, and post it here.

In this particular case, don't remember what may have triggered it, since it was a month ago. Quite likely I was saying those lines to someone who was saying bye.

mrs bagchi, thank you for the explanation; it was quite revealing. you say, "My song postings come without any particular intent,... Some random song gets triggered in my head, and then it stays there. So I find that song on youtube, and post it here." in other words, your song postings are entirely instinctive. i am glad, because the mental process you describe tends to be a reflection of your true self.

the northindian woman is largely alien to my experience. still, i am curious. i suspect that the video you posted - of rishi kapoor harassing, physically restricting the movements of a college girl, pulling at her clothes, and making her stumble and fall - is from the seventies, and you were either not yet born or still an infant. how then did that song-and-dance pop into your head so instinctively when you were saying goodbye to someone?

were you subjected to a barrage of such hindi movies day in and day out? by whom? your mother? your much-older sister? you gave us the impression that your mother is an educated woman. could you confirm that? perhaps there's a vast difference between what each of considers "educated" or "civilized."

may i also ask you whether scenes such as the ones you posted represent love and romance to you and your culture? does it excite you and your northindian relatives and friends to watch a good-looking young man harasss a well-dressed, good-looking young woman, and engage in acts that verge on the violent? in other words, does a mix of sex and violence excite you and the people of your culture?

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:perhaps there's a vast difference between what each of us considers "educated" or "civilized."

Rashmun wrote:

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
thank you. i watched it when you first posted it, and thought it was pure harassment. most of all, i marveled at the woman - you - who dug up that video and wanted to share it with others here. what was your intent?

haha, I knew this would come to that. My song postings come without any particular intent, and they rarely suggest my mood (or message) of the day. Some random song gets triggered in my head, and then it stays there. So I find that song on youtube, and post it here.

In this particular case, don't remember what may have triggered it, since it was a month ago. Quite likely I was saying those lines to someone who was saying bye.

mrs bagchi, thank you for the explanation; it was quite revealing. you say, "My song postings come without any particular intent,... Some random song gets triggered in my head, and then it stays there. So I find that song on youtube, and post it here." in other words, your song postings are entirely instinctive. i am glad, because the mental process you describe tends to be a reflection of your true self.

the northindian woman is largely alien to my experience. still, i am curious. i suspect that the video you posted - of rishi kapoor harassing, physically restricting the movements of a college girl, pulling at her clothes, and making her stumble and fall - is from the seventies, and you were either not yet born or still an infant. how then did that song-and-dance pop into your head so instinctively when you were saying goodbye to someone?

were you subjected to a barrage of such hindi movies day in and day out? by whom? your mother? your much-older sister? you gave us the impression that your mother is an educated woman. could you confirm that? perhaps there's a vast difference between what each of considers "educated" or "civilized."

may i also ask you whether scenes such as the ones you posted represent love and romance to you and your culture? does it excite you and your northindian relatives and friends to watch a good-looking young man harasss a well-dressed, good-looking young woman, and engage in acts that verge on the violent? in other words, does a mix of sex and violence excite you and the people of your culture?

JM are there no tamil songs depicting MGR harassing, restricting the movements of a collge girl, and making her stumble and fall?

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:i suspect that the video you posted - of rishi kapoor harassing,...

Vidya Bagchi wrote: I don't remember an eve-teasing song in movies since last decade. There is so much more to fit in in now-shorter movies.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:frankly, the shashi kapoor song though it was silly, seems like a barney the purple dinosaur episode compared with what passes for romancing in indian movies these days. whenever i have gone back to india the last couple of decades, it has always amazed me that multigenerational families -- grandmothers down to kindergartners all assemble in front of the idiot box and watch the alhar masth jawani type of movie sequences without missing a beat. the only one squirming with embarrassment in the room to look at that image with an eighty year old woman in the room is yours truly.

there is something deeply messed up with the collective indian psyche. actual sex in movies is still difficult to get through the censors, but not heaving bosoms, pelvic thrusts, and grabbing male paws. rape is just A-ok. i don't think this is about just bombay cinema. tamil cinema is full of the same crap.

Vidya Bagchi wrote:JM,

We watched all those songs on doordarshan, and watched all those movies too, either on doordarshan, or on the big screen in the village, where they would show old movies every sunday.

Old hindi movie dialogs and songs come to me instinctively all the time. Even when I am posting on forums. It's lost on you coz you are not familiar with it. Others who are, get it.

My mother is educated and civilized. She is also a hindi movies fan. Audience don't represent every character in every movie, and can definitely watch the movies without being expected to act the same way in real life. They are also not expected to enjoy each and every scene in a movie, even if they like the movie on the whole. I am sure you are civilized enough to know that, JM.

Those acts don't seem like verging on 'violence'. Why did they show that way? I guess in those times, girls and boys didn't talk normally in most towns. 'Good' girls were not supposed to look at boys and initiate convervasions. But if teased, they would definitely react. And once they react, either that itself would feel like you have communicated, or that may start a relationship, bonus.

So boys acted goofy in order to get attention. Men have done stupid stuff to get a woman's attention throughout civilization.

Maybe the same was reflected in the movies, in a more dramatized way. Movie characters are shown a little larger than life anyway. If you ask my opinion, it looks more childish than violent. Such big men acting so childish. Atleast that's what my mom would complain while we watched movies together.

Maybe that was accepted in movies in that generation. Or maybe, I am entirely wrong about the culture. Maybe one such song became a hit, and 10 dozen movies copied the 'formula' and showed it in other creative ways. By 90s is when it became entirely stupid. The cuteness factor of the 70s was gone. This has definitely changed now. I don't remember an eve-teasing song in movies since last decade. There is so much more to fit in in now-shorter movies. Much easier to show them meeting in different ways. Besides, not too many boy-meets-girl scripts either.

Mrs Bagchi wrote:We watched all those songs on doordarshan, and watched all those movies too... Old hindi movie dialogs and songs come to me instinctively all the time... My mother is educated and civilized. She is also a hindi movies fan.

Mrs Bagchi wrote:Maybe that was accepted in movies in that generation.