Random Thoughts on NI-SI synthesis

by Guest Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:18 pm

In a recent post Charvaka gives some stats which show that there are more school dropouts in NI than in SI. Prior this i had given the link to an article which says that SI is greying (i.e. percentage of old people in the population) at a significantly faster rate than NI:

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-03-03/india/28123228_1_fertility-rate-poor-states-northern-states

One suggestion i have is to open educational centers in NI where educated SI's who are old can teach young NI's. This will also ensure that the old southerners will not have to worry about this:

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/15/world/la-fg-india-mercy-killings-20130116

by Guest Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:31 pm

the concept of north indian and south indian is also going to become more and more meaningless with people going to other states for job opportunities and people having spouses from other states.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:23 pm

how about converting all those dakshin bhArat hindi prachAr sabhAs to utthar bhArat sAksharatA prachAr sabhAs?

by Guest Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:27 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:how about converting all those dakshin bhArat hindi prachAr sabhAs to utthar bhArat sAksharatA prachAr sabhAs?

you mean get the Malimath types to be involved in educating kids in UP and other NI states? According to Justice Sathasivam it would be beneficial for tamil kids to know some hindi in the event that they have to go to work in NI. I bow to the experience and wisdom of his lordship and am not prepared to express disagreement with him.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:28 pm

if his lordship is for dbhps even after reading about the school dropout stats in utthar bhArat, then i am afraid his lordship has his brains in his assship.

by Hellsangel Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:31 pm

Lordship? What are we, in the 19th century now?

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:32 pm

Rashmun wrote:the concept of north indian and south indian is also going to become more and more meaningless with people going to other states for job opportunities and people having spouses from other states.

Then why are you campaigning for Hindi? Let people learn whatever language they want to and go where ever they want to.

Also, tell Mulayam and Akhilesh to talk in English when they are on NDTV's English channel.

I wonder why MT ji says, "Garibi Hatao" and not, "uplift the poor"! Is she thinking that the message is for BimarU and not for Karnataka-TN-Kerala-AP? Hmm.....

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:11 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:the concept of north indian and south indian is also going to become more and more meaningless with people going to other states for job opportunities and people having spouses from other states.

Then why are you campaigning for Hindi? Let people learn whatever language they want to and go where ever they want to.

The most vociferous proponents of Hindi are North Indian upper-castes, who insist on everyone learning and using Hindi, while they (and their kids) are themselves beneficiaries of an English education.

This is all a casteist ploy to keep the Dalits from moving up the social strata. Knowledge of English is key to all the economic opportunities in today's world and today's Manuvadis are determined to keep the Dalits from availing those. But the ploy is not working.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:15 pm

"This is all a casteist ploy to keep the Dalits from moving up the
social strata. Knowledge of English is key to all the economic
opportunities in today's world and today's Manuvadis are determined to
keep the Dalits from availing those. But the ploy is not working."

Indeed! Kancha also advocates English for Dalits.

by Rishi Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:18 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:the concept of north indian and south indian is also going to become more and more meaningless with people going to other states for job opportunities and people having spouses from other states.

Then why are you campaigning for Hindi? Let people learn whatever language they want to and go where ever they want to.

The most vociferous proponents of Hindi are North Indian upper-castes, who insist on everyone learning and using Hindi, while they (and their kids) are themselves beneficiaries of an English education.

This is all a casteist ploy to keep the Dalits from moving up the social strata. Knowledge of English is key to all the economic opportunities in today's world and today's Manuvadis are determined to keep the Dalits from availing those. But the ploy is not working.

Not True.

Mulyam Singh Yadav is a OBC guy. He and his other goonds from hisparty shouted down an ADMK MP who spoke in Tamil in the parliament. They asked him to speak in Hindi. Deva Gowda when he was nominated for the PM job, he had to promise Mulyam that he will learn to speak Hindi in 6 months. The same situation for Abdul kalam also.

by Kris Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:18 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:the concept of north indian and south indian is also going to become more and more meaningless with people going to other states for job opportunities and people having spouses from other states.

Then why are you campaigning for Hindi? Let people learn whatever language they want to and go where ever they want to.

The most vociferous proponents of Hindi are North Indian upper-castes, who insist on everyone learning and using Hindi, while they (and their kids) are themselves beneficiaries of an English education.

....[/url]

>>>> This double standard is not uncommon among TN politicians as well. I actually had the opportunity to see this first hand with MK's granddaughter.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
The most vociferous proponents of Hindi are North Indian upper-castes, who insist on everyone learning and using Hindi, while they (and their kids) are themselves beneficiaries of an English education.

This is all a casteist ploy to keep the Dalits from moving up the social strata. Knowledge of English is key to all the economic opportunities in today's world and today's Manuvadis are determined to keep the Dalits from availing those. But the ploy is not working.

i can understand utthar pradeshi trivedis and chaturvedis keeping english away from the people who carry their nightsoil, but why insist on hindi for southern indians?

by Kris Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:20 pm

Rishi wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:the concept of north indian and south indian is also going to become more and more meaningless with people going to other states for job opportunities and people having spouses from other states.

Then why are you campaigning for Hindi? Let people learn whatever language they want to and go where ever they want to.

The most vociferous proponents of Hindi are North Indian upper-castes, who insist on everyone learning and using Hindi, while they (and their kids) are themselves beneficiaries of an English education.

This is all a casteist ploy to keep the Dalits from moving up the social strata. Knowledge of English is key to all the economic opportunities in today's world and today's Manuvadis are determined to keep the Dalits from availing those. But the ploy is not working.

Not True.

Mulyam Singh Yadav is a OBC guy. He and his other goonds from hisparty shouted down an ADMK MP who spoke in Tamil in the parliament. They asked him to speak in Hindi. Deva Gowda when he was nominated for the PM job, he had to promise Mulyam that he will learn to speak Hindi in 6 months. The same situation for Abdul kalam also.

>>>>Didn't Gowda say something like 'my not speaking hindi is the least of this country's problems?'

by Kayalvizhi Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:29 pm

Rashmun wrote:the concept of north indian and south indian is also going to become more and more meaningless with people going to other states for job opportunities and people having spouses from other states.

That is why we, the people of Tamil Nadu, want to restrict inflow of Hindians into Tamilnadu. Until Tamil Nadu v=becomes independent state gov should implement an immigration scheme to allow only people with skills we need. Alo leave rif rafs out. Thinathanthi reported that ticketless traiun travel increased in TN because of Hindian influx.

We also want to bar Hindians who do not learn Tamil from voting in TN. Here is the suggestion

"Why? Tourists, visitors and short-term residents (say, for short-term work assignments) should not be allowed to vote in Tamil Nadu; they should vote by mail in the place of their permanent residence as absentee voters. Why should a Gujarati who is on a one-month work assignment in Tamilnadu vote here and decide who heads the city corporation, village council or state, or who represents Tamil Nadu in the Indian parliament? As for permanent residents or long-term residents, they should learn the local language. Can you even think of someone settling in China or having a long-term employment in China and refusing to learn Chinese? This is true for many other countries also. There are many foreign nurses, especially from Southeast Asian countries, going to Japan for work. Japan requires that they learn Japanese if they want long-term employment there. Recently a court in United Kingdom (UK) upheld that a government rule that foreign spouses married to UK citizens must learn English before they are allowed to come and live in UK. The judge said that the rule was aimed at promoting integration and protecting public services. UK Immigration Minister Damian Green said that it was “entirely reasonable that someone intending to live in the UK should understand English, so that they can integrate and participate fully in our society.”

Anyone who settles permanently in a region must learn the local language. Those who are not permanent residents should not have the right to vote in the state of non-permanent residence. Let them vote by mail in their hometowns or villages."

Read the full article at

http://www.tamiltribune.com/12/0101.html

by Rishi Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:33 pm

Oops.

Correction.

The ADMK MP spoke in English which Mulyam Singh could not tolerate.

by Kayalvizhi Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:34 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
I wonder why MT ji says, "Garibi Hatao" and not, "uplift the poor"! Is she thinking that the message is for BimarU and not for Karnataka-TN-Kerala-AP? Hmm.....

Good one.

by Kayalvizhi Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:37 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:The most vociferous proponents of Hindi are North Indian upper-castes, who insist on everyone learning and using Hindi, while they (and their kids) are themselves beneficiaries of an English education.
.

Read this

The Day a Hindi Fanatic was dragged out of the Closet (by P. Kumaresan)
http://www.tamiltribune.com/97/1002.html

it is about former Chief Minister of the Hindi-speaking State of Uttar Predesh, Mulayam Singh Yadav

by Kayalvizhi Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:40 pm

Kris wrote:
>>>>Didn't Gowda say something like 'my not speaking hindi is the least of this country's problems?'

Thats why he was kicked out as PM

Why Gowda Went Out, and Gujral Came In As The Prime Minister? (by Usha Ramanathan),
http://www.tamiltribune.com/07/0901.html

by Idéfix Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:44 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:the concept of north indian and south indian is also going to become more and more meaningless with people going to other states for job opportunities and people having spouses from other states.

Then why are you campaigning for Hindi? Let people learn whatever language they want to and go where ever they want to.

The most vociferous proponents of Hindi are North Indian upper-castes, who insist on everyone learning and using Hindi, while they (and their kids) are themselves beneficiaries of an English education.

This is all a casteist ploy to keep the Dalits from moving up the social strata. Knowledge of English is key to all the economic opportunities in today's world and today's Manuvadis are determined to keep the Dalits from availing those. But the ploy is not working.

Yes, as I've suggested here before, it is all about the need for "servants" and the economics of keeping those wages "affordable" enough for the n-vedis (where n runs from 1 or 2 to 4).

by Idéfix Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:47 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Indeed! Kancha also advocates English for Dalits.

Guruvu-gaaru, another little teaching moment from sishyuDu to guruvu gaaru: not everything Kancha says is bad, not everything Kancha says is good. The fact that Kancha said has almost no relevance at all to the proposition, once you step outside your own thought process.

Reference: Kalidasa, new books, old books, etc.

by goodcitizn Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:58 am

Let me understand Rashmun's logic.

On the one hand, he says that SI's need to learn Hindi so that they can take jobs in North India but, on the other, he says that the prosperity of SI cities is due to the insurgence of NI's there.

Using his own logic, it can be surmised that SI's knowing Hindi is advantageous to the migrating NI's to find jobs in South India without having to learn any South Indian languages.

His solution to solving the illiteracy and school dropout rates in the Hindi Belt is to have the greying old SI teachers come to its rescue, and NOT by diverting the crores and crores of taxpayers' money spent on DBHPS to this cause because the government ought to be more concerned with teaching Hindi to the literate SI's than bringing literacy to the Hindi Belt states. (Keep in mind that half of all illiterates in India are in the Hindi Belt states).

By his own logic, it can be surmised that NI's are less concerned about their own kind and more concerned with SI's which explains the disparity in literacy, employment and prosperity between the two segments.

by Guest Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:56 am

panini press wrote:Yes, as I've suggested here before, it is all about the need for "servants" and the economics of keeping those wages "affordable" enough for the n-vedis (where n runs from 1 or 2 to 4).

ha ha ha! this tactic was used by jyoti basu too (education only in bengali) to keep poor bengalis poor.

by Idéfix Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:11 am

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
panini press wrote:Yes, as I've suggested here before, it is all about the need for "servants" and the economics of keeping those wages "affordable" enough for the n-vedis (where n runs from 1 or 2 to 4).

ha ha ha! this tactic was used by jyoti basu too (education only in bengali) to keep poor bengalis poor.

I wonder if West Bengal is in a race with UP. The prize: to be the next Bihar, i.e. the poorest large state of India. It is fitting and proper that Bihar's competition comes from its east and its west. I was hoping the resounding defeat the Communists suffered would change things for the better and put Bengal on the path back to growth. What's your view -- has it?

by Guest Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:16 am

panini press wrote:I was hoping the resounding defeat the Communists suffered would change things for the better and put Bengal on the path back to growth. What's your view -- has it?

no it hasn't. bengali is fast slipping (for example there is now poor air connectivity to kolkata because of poor demand, leading to astronmmical fares in rush season). see this height of absurdity: http://www.telegraphindia.com/1130129/jsp/frontpage/story_16495706.jsp#.UQdpEr_VWds

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:40 am

panini press wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Indeed! Kancha also advocates English for Dalits.
Guruvu-gaaru, another little teaching moment from sishyuDu to guruvu gaaru: not everything Kancha says is bad, not everything Kancha says is good. The fact that Kancha said has almost no relevance at all to the proposition, once you step outside your own thought process.

Reference: Kalidasa, new books, old books, etc.

Kancha actually explained his reason for the suggestion. He referred to what Ambedkar said in the context and was wondering if Mayawati (she was the CM then) would see the benefit for dalits. This line of thinking was similar to what Merlot was suggesting. So, I decided to add what Kancha said.

My views of Kancha? He thinks of religion in a narrow sense - as a political tool. His approach actually fosters more conflicts.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:10 pm

2-dwivedi, 3-trivedi, 4-chaturvedi.

what is a mono-vedi called?

by Hellsangel Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:11 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:2-dwivedi, 3-trivedi, 4-chaturvedi.

what is a mono-vedi called?

No Vedi worth his salt will be a mono-vedi. That being said, there is a last name Vedi.

by Guest Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:44 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:2-dwivedi, 3-trivedi, 4-chaturvedi.

what is a mono-vedi called?

No Vedi worth his salt will be a mono-vedi. That being said, there is a last name Vedi.

In other words, PP was poo pooing when he spoke of mono-vedis?

by Propagandhi711 Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:49 pm

I know a filipino girl with last name of unvedi...dunno where she got it from but she was a fine specimen, with long legs, slim trunk, high breasts, shiny hair etc mmm slants

by Hellsangel Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:09 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:2-dwivedi, 3-trivedi, 4-chaturvedi.

what is a mono-vedi called?

No Vedi worth his salt will be a mono-vedi. That being said, there is a last name Vedi.

In other words, PP was poo pooing when he spoke of mono-vedis?

Still obsessed with the great glut Admin, even after he put you on ignore?

by Guest Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:13 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:2-dwivedi, 3-trivedi, 4-chaturvedi.

what is a mono-vedi called?

No Vedi worth his salt will be a mono-vedi. That being said, there is a last name Vedi.

In other words, PP was poo pooing when he spoke of mono-vedis?

Still obsessed with the great glut Admin, even after he put you on ignore?

i am only pointing out that he was talking nonsense when he spoke of the existence of mono-vedis.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:26 pm

"i am only pointing out that he was talking nonsense when he spoke of the existence of mono-vedis."

Could this be the real problem for BimarU? Bhaiyyas seem to think that one needs to be a vedi in 2, 3 or 4 (jack of all trades but master of none...). Where do the Sharmas fit in this game (not the ones who murder, rape and cheat, I am thinking of the non-ravans)? How come there are no parallel episodes in UP to what happened in TN (DKheads going after the threads)? Are people like ND Tiwari the best vedis that UP can show? Any Ramanuajams and Subrahmanya Bharatis?

by Guest Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:40 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:"i am only pointing out that he was talking nonsense when he spoke of the existence of mono-vedis."

Could this be the real problem for BimarU? Bhaiyyas seem to think that one needs to be a vedi in 2, 3 or 4 (jack of all trades but master of none...). Where do the Sharmas fit in this game (not the ones who murder, rape and cheat, I am thinking of the non-ravans)? How come there are no parallel episodes in UP to what happened in TN (DKheads going after the threads)? Are people like ND Tiwari the best vedis that UP can show? Any Ramanuajams and Subrahmanya Bharatis?

One reason for this is that in TN the population of brahmins is about 3% while in UP it is 9%. Further the population of upper caste hindus in UP is 25% and that of muslims is 18% and of dalits it is 20%. In contrast, the population of OBC's is very high in TN. My contention is that upper caste bashing is inevitably done by the OBC's who also oppress the dalits in rural India. The worst oppressors of dalits in TN are the Goundars, Thevars, etc. while in UP they are yadavas, kurmis, etc. In other words, the OBC community.

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