hindustani influences in carnatic music

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:29 pm

there are real, well-documented and demonstrable influences of hindustani music, particularly dhrupad on carnatic music. this is very evident in the music of mutthuswamy dikshitar. his travel to benares and the subsequent introduction of ragas like dwijavanthi (hindustani jaijaiwanthi), yamuna kalyani (hindustani yaman kalyan) attest to this. even his compositions in traditional carnatic ragas are suffused with the slow majesty of dhrupad. one often hears the gait of dikshitar's music being compared to that of an elephant.

those interested in cross pollination between the two genres should listen to the music of dikshitar rather than positing ridiculously silly, unprovable conjectures.

here is dikshitar's canonical krithi in raga dwijavanthi, akhilandeshwari rendered in all its majesty by MSS:

and here is a representative jaijaiwanti piece, part of a larger recording (all of which is available on youtube), just the drut cheej in this case by pandits rajan and sajan mishra;

if you listen to the two one after the other you will immediately recognize the swaroopam of the raga and how skillfully dikshitar has incorporated the scalar material of jaijaiwanti from hindustani into carnatic music without copying the aesthetic also.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:35 pm

in the case of the hindustani sample, i deliberately posted the drut cheej because the vilambit khayal is too slow in development to get a sense of the swaroopa of the raga in a short listen. there are many other beautiful examples of jaijaiwanti - amir khan, nikhil banerjee to name just two which are much better than this one on youtube.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:44 pm

as you listen to the MSS rendition of dikshitar's krithi carefully, you may notice the word "guruguha". this is dikshitar's mudra or stamp which he put in all his songs. the one additional specialty of dikshitar's compositions was that he weaved the name of the raga into the text of the song.

by goodcitizn Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:58 am

Good stuff, Max. I learned a lot listening to both videos. Thanks.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:04 am

goodcitizn wrote:Good stuff, Max. I learned a lot listening to both videos. Thanks.

you're welcome. looks like now that mr.agenda has discovered mutthuswamy dikshitar (MD), all of a sudden MD is the poster boy for his fantasies. he has now even concluded that MD "learned" his music in benares. and now he has discovered that MD composed all his music in sanskrit. wow! thanks for telling us. we didn't know after listening to his compositions for more than thirty years.

MD was well schooled in CM before he stepped out to travel. his visit was more in the nature of a traveling scholar on a sabbatical. the relationships between HM & CM are rich, complex, and varied to capture in a short post. MD brought back a lot of scalar material from benares, but he never compromised the intrinsic aesthetic of his music whose grammar was unmistakably CM. this is what i love about his music. this is also why despite the fact that i love MSS's music to death, i was never fond of her silly meera bhajan singing. something is lost when you do that. this is also the reason why i respect musicians like ustad amir khan who took ragas from CM -- hamsadwani and charukeshi to name just two, and sang beautiful khayals in them, but they sound distinctly hindustani. there is nothing carnatic about them other than the scale. there is a lot more to be said about this and i will in this thread as time allows. mr.agenda has no interest in music whatsoever, just like he has no interest in dance whatsoever. there is only one reason why he participates in these threads.

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:09 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:Good stuff, Max. I learned a lot listening to both videos. Thanks.

you're welcome. looks like now that mr.agenda has discovered mutthuswamy dikshitar (MD), all of a sudden MD is the poster boy for his fantasies. he has now even concluded that MD "learned" his music in benares. and now he has discovered that MD composed all his music in sanskrit. wow! thanks for telling us. we didn't know after listening to his compositions for more than thirty years.

MD was well schooled in CM before he stepped out to travel. his visit was more in the nature of a traveling scholar on a sabbatical. the relationships between HM & CM are rich, complex, and varied to capture in a short post. MD brought back a lot of scalar material from benares, but he never compromised the intrinsic aesthetic of his music whose grammar was unmistakably CM. this is what i love about his music. this is also why despite the fact that i love MSS's music to death, i was never fond of her silly meera bhajan singing. something is lost when you do that. there is a lot more to be said about this and i will in this thread as time allows. mr.agenda has no interest in music whatsoever, just like he has no interest in dance whatsoever. there is only one reason why he participates in these threads.

You are being silly. I have attended various BN and CM performances. What I said about MD was a speculation, not a statement of fact.

by Idéfix Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:55 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:mr.agenda has no interest in music whatsoever, just like he has no interest in dance whatsoever. there is only one reason why he participates in these threads.

Or languages. Or history. I am not sure if he has a real interest in the strong men he worships*, or if that's agenda-driven too.

* Not that there is anything wrong with that.

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:59 am

panini press wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:mr.agenda has no interest in music whatsoever, just like he has no interest in dance whatsoever. there is only one reason why he participates in these threads.
Or languages. Or history. I am not sure if he has a real interest in the strong men he worships, or if that's agenda-driven too.

Don't agree with this ignorant mud-boy. His job is to toss around mud, hoping some of it sticks around. Probably a hired help!... was brought up in a brahmin family but now he has become an atheist. But that probably is not just his fault alone. He grew up (as he indicated before) in a family of brahmins, who used to mispronounce the Sanskrit words and not understand properly the meaning of even those Vedic shlokas which were part of their priestly recitations. So you see, based on his family’s poor Vedic knowledge, anything related to the Vedas now is type of a revelation to him and totally unbelievable. Considering from where he has started, it’s hard to take his comments seriously or feel offended by his questions.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:24 pm

mr.agendaman aka gonepostalman has started to do the usual inundation. the present topic of obsession seems to have been set in motion by yours truly's post about dikshitar. as is his wont he has cut and paste indiscriminately without checking for accuracy or errors. in one howler of a post by someone called kamat, the claim is that MD has introduced hameer kalyan from hindustani. the thing is there is no hameer kalyan in HM. there is a raga called hameer in HM which to my knowledge has no equivalent in CM. there is also a thAt called kalyan but no individual raga called kalyan. of course there is yaman kalyan and shudh kalyan, and several other hyphenated kalyans but no kalyan itself. there is a raga called hameer kalyani in CM which is the equivalent of the hindustani kedar (not to be confused with the carnatic kedaram, an entirely different beast).

the profusion of similar sounding names often causes confusion which this kamat seems to have succumbed to. this is what we called arai vekkAdu (half boiled) in tamil.

fun fun fun. more later.

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:35 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:mr.agendaman aka gonepostalman has started to do the usual inundation. the present topic of obsession seems to have been set in motion by yours truly's post about dikshitar. as is his wont he has cut and paste indiscriminately without checking for accuracy or errors. in one howler of a post by someone called kamat, the claim is that MD has introduced hameer kalyan from hindustani. the thing is there is no hameer kalyan in HM. there is a raga called hameer in HM which to my knowledge has no equivalent in CM. there is also a thAt called kalyan but no individual raga called kalyan. of course there is yaman kalyan and shudh kalyan, and several other hyphenated kalyans but no kalyan itself. there is a raga called hameer kalyani in CM which is the equivalent of the hindustani kedar (not to be confused with the carnatic kedaram, an entirely different beast).

the profusion of similar sounding names often causes confusion which this kamat seems to have succumbed to. this is what we called arai vekkAdu (half boiled) in tamil.

fun fun fun. more later.

Whenever one writes on history it is understandable that some inadvertent errors will creep in sometimes. For instance, Pulitzer Prize winner Will Durant's book 'Our Oriental Heritage' is a great book but it does have some errors in it.

Personally i am impressed by Kamat's encyclopaedic knowledge on a range of different topics.

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:37 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:mr.agendaman aka gonepostalman has started to do the usual inundation. the present topic of obsession seems to have been set in motion by yours truly's post about dikshitar. as is his wont he has cut and paste indiscriminately without checking for accuracy or errors. in one howler of a post by someone called kamat, the claim is that MD has introduced hameer kalyan from hindustani. the thing is there is no hameer kalyan in HM. there is a raga called hameer in HM which to my knowledge has no equivalent in CM. there is also a thAt called kalyan but no individual raga called kalyan. of course there is yaman kalyan and shudh kalyan, and several other hyphenated kalyans but no kalyan itself. there is a raga called hameer kalyani in CM which is the equivalent of the hindustani kedar (not to be confused with the carnatic kedaram, an entirely different beast).

the profusion of similar sounding names often causes confusion which this kamat seems to have succumbed to. this is what we called arai vekkAdu (half boiled) in tamil.

fun fun fun. more later.

Whenever one writes on history it is understandable that some inadvertent errors will creep in sometimes. For instance, Pulitzer Prize winner Will Durant's book 'Our Oriental Heritage' is a great book but it does have some errors in it.

Personally i am impressed by Kamat's encyclopaedic knowledge on a range of different topics.

http://www.kamat.com/jyotsna/blog/a2z.htm

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:40 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:mr.agendaman aka gonepostalman has started to do the usual inundation. the present topic of obsession seems to have been set in motion by yours truly's post about dikshitar. as is his wont he has cut and paste indiscriminately without checking for accuracy or errors. in one howler of a post by someone called kamat, the claim is that MD has introduced hameer kalyan from hindustani. the thing is there is no hameer kalyan in HM. there is a raga called hameer in HM which to my knowledge has no equivalent in CM. there is also a thAt called kalyan but no individual raga called kalyan. of course there is yaman kalyan and shudh kalyan, and several other hyphenated kalyans but no kalyan itself. there is a raga called hameer kalyani in CM which is the equivalent of the hindustani kedar (not to be confused with the carnatic kedaram, an entirely different beast).

the profusion of similar sounding names often causes confusion which this kamat seems to have succumbed to. this is what we called arai vekkAdu (half boiled) in tamil.

fun fun fun. more later.

Whenever one writes on history it is understandable that some inadvertent errors will creep in sometimes. For instance, Pulitzer Prize winner Will Durant's book 'Our Oriental Heritage' is a great book but it does have some errors in it.

Personally i am impressed by Kamat's encyclopaedic knowledge on a range of different topics.

http://www.kamat.com/jyotsna/blog/a2z.htm

Kamat seems to be right about Raga Hameer Kalyan. See for instance:

http://www.firstpost.com/topic/place/lahore-raag-hameer-kalyan-on-vichitra-veena-by-faqir-habib-ali-k-video-Bzng06fe-D4-4186-6.html

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:41 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Kamat seems to be right about Raga Hameer Kalyan. See for instance:

http://www.firstpost.com/topic/place/lahore-raag-hameer-kalyan-on-vichitra-veena-by-faqir-habib-ali-k-video-Bzng06fe-D4-4186-6.html

So..are YOU now speculating or making a Statement of Fact?

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:42 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Kamat seems to be right about Raga Hameer Kalyan. See for instance:

http://www.firstpost.com/topic/place/lahore-raag-hameer-kalyan-on-vichitra-veena-by-faqir-habib-ali-k-video-Bzng06fe-D4-4186-6.html

So..are YOU now speculating or making a Statement of Fact?

inferring.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:54 pm

one must be musically deaf to think that the hameer kalyani (or ameer kalayani) of CM is the same as hameer kalyan of HM. seriously.

on the interwebs i consider rajan parrikar to be THE undisputed authority on matters pertaining to HM, based on decades worth of participation and interaction in a different forum. the name hameer kalyan according to him is used to refer to the hindustani raga hameer itself occasionally (http://www.parrikar.org/hindustani/hameer/). it most certainly has nothing to do with the carnatic hameer kalyani.

here is the carnatic hameer kalyani:

here is the hindustani kedar:

let your ears be your guide. for the sample of hameer (occasionally referred to as hameer kalyan) readers can listen to the sample posted by gonepostalman.

or to this canonical piece, madhuman mein radhika nache re:

once again, relying on name similarity is a path to disaster in trying to discern relationships between HM and CM.

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:56 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:one must be musically deaf to think that the hameer kalyani (or ameer kalayani) of CM is the same as hameer kalyan of HM. seriously.

on the interwebs i consider rajan parrikar to be THE undisputed authority on matters pertaining to HM, based on decades worth of participation and interaction in a different forum. the name hameer kalyan according to him is used to refer to the hindustani raga hameer itself occasionally (http://www.parrikar.org/hindustani/hameer/). it most certainly has nothing to do with the carnatic hameer kalyani.

here is the carnatic hameer kalyani:

here is the hindustani kedar:

let your ears be your guide. for the sample of hameer (occasionally referred to as hameer kalyan) readers can listen to the sample posted by gonepostalman.

or to this canonical piece, madhuman mein radhika nache re:

once again, relying on name similarity is a path to disaster in trying to discern relationships between HM and CM.

Great post. Thanks a lot.

by Idéfix Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:01 pm

Good thread. Thanks for posting the Youtube videos in particular, Max. I find this cross-pollination between the two classical music traditions of India much more fascinating than the agenda-driven nonsense we are often subjected to here.

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:05 pm

panini press wrote:Good thread. Thanks for posting the Youtube videos in particular, Max. I find this cross-pollination between the two classical music traditions of India much more fascinating than the agenda-driven nonsense we are often subjected to here.

Don't agree with this ignorant mud-boy. His job is to toss around mud, hoping some of it sticks around. Probably a hired help!... was brought up in a brahmin family but now he has become an atheist. But that probably is not just his fault alone. He grew up (as he indicated before) in a family of brahmins, who used to mispronounce the Sanskrit words and not understand properly the meaning of even those Vedic shlokas which were part of their priestly recitations. So you see, based on his family’s poor Vedic knowledge, anything related to the Vedas now is type of a revelation to him and totally unbelievable. Considering from where he has started, it’s hard to take his comments seriously or feel offended by his questions.

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:10 pm

panini press wrote:Good thread. Thanks for posting the Youtube videos in particular, Max. I find this cross-pollination between the two classical music traditions of India much ~~more~~ fascinating ~~than the agenda-driven nonsense we are often subjected to here.~~

*corrected*

good job Il Proffesore by the way. you are a gem. Smile

by Hellsangel Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:22 pm

panini press wrote:Good thread. Thanks for posting the Youtube videos in particular, Max. I find this cross-pollination between the two classical music traditions of India much more fascinating than the agenda-driven nonsense we are often subjected to here.

I think Rashman was teased a lot as a kid coz of his stuttering. He found his voice online and fancies himself a great debater now.

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:25 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:Good thread. Thanks for posting the Youtube videos in particular, Max. I find this cross-pollination between the two classical music traditions of India much more fascinating than the agenda-driven nonsense we are often subjected to here.

I think Rashman was teased a lot as a kid coz of his stuttering. He found his voice online and fancies himself a great debater now.

your making fun of the disability i once had smacks of a malicious and sadistic mindset which was no doubt inculcated into you by your parents.

by Hellsangel Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:27 pm

What happened to the lecturing to large audiences?

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:29 pm

Hellsangel wrote:What happened to the lecturing to large audiences?

wtf are you talking about?

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:32 pm

Did Munmun really stutter? Thougt HA was making it up. Kinda mean to bring it up. Evil or Very Mad

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:33 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:Did Munmun really stutter? Thougt HA was making it up. Kinda mean to bring it up.

Thanks Bollywood Auntyji.

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:35 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:Did Munmun really stutter? Thougt HA was making it up. Kinda mean to bring it up.

be nice please or have you forgotten? how is the rickety chair doing?

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:37 pm

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:Did Munmun really stutter? Thougt HA was making it up. Kinda mean to bring it up.
be nice please or have you forgotten? how is the rickety chair doing?

Chair toot gayi.

by Idéfix Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:38 pm

Yes, it is mean to bring that up. I remember Rashmun bringing up the medical situations of posters (including one on this thread), and their family members (another on this thread). I found that rather distasteful -- particularly bringing up the medical complications of the family members of posters.

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:40 pm

panini press wrote:Yes, it is mean to bring that up. I remember Rashmun bringing up the medical situations of posters (including one on this thread), and their family members (another on this thread). I found that rather distasteful -- particularly bringing up the medical complications of the family members of posters.

When a poster claims he is suffering from depression one is obliged to offer emotional support. I for instance advised HK to the effect that Kerala Ayurvedic massages might help him.

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:42 pm

panini press wrote:Yes, it is mean to bring that up. I remember Rashmun bringing up the medical situations of posters (including one on this thread), and their family members (another on this thread). I found that rather distasteful -- particularly bringing up the medical complications of the family members of posters.

On another note, how are your eyes doing now? I recall you saying the power in your eyes was something like -8.5 and you were nearly blind without your eye glasses or contacts due to which you decided to opt for laser surgery.

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:43 pm

I held HA to higher standards maybe. *shrug*

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:45 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:I held HA to higher standards maybe. *shrug*

HA is completely mean, malicious, vindictive, and vicious. He was always like this and he will always remain like this barring something unusual in his life.

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:47 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:I held HA to higher standards maybe. *shrug*

HA is completely mean, malicious, vindictive, and vicious. He was always like this and he will always remain like this barring something unusual in his life.

agreed 100%. i stopped interacting with him after he revealed JM's personal details.

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:50 pm

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:I held HA to higher standards maybe. *shrug*

HA is completely mean, malicious, vindictive, and vicious. He was always like this and he will always remain like this barring something unusual in his life.
agreed 100%. i stopped interacting with him after he revealed JM's personal details.

I am an optimist. I believe he might change after he marries and has children.

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:53 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:I held HA to higher standards maybe. *shrug*

HA is completely mean, malicious, vindictive, and vicious. He was always like this and he will always remain like this barring something unusual in his life.
agreed 100%. i stopped interacting with him after he revealed JM's personal details.

I am an optimist. I believe he might change after he marries and has children.

Or maybe when he crosses 30.

by Idéfix Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:02 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:I held HA to higher standards maybe. *shrug*

HA is completely mean, malicious, vindictive, and vicious. He was always like this and he will always remain like this barring something unusual in his life.
agreed 100%. i stopped interacting with him after he revealed JM's personal details.

I am an optimist. I believe he might change after he marries and has children.

Or maybe when he crosses 30.

Hey, isn't he supposed to be a teenager or something? At least according to the other highly ethical poster who uses people's (or their family members') medical conditions in arguments with them...

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:06 pm

panini press wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:mr.agenda has no interest in music whatsoever, just like he has no interest in dance whatsoever. there is only one reason why he participates in these threads.
Or languages. Or history. I am not sure if he has a real interest in the strong men he worships*, or if that's agenda-driven too.

* Not that there is anything wrong with that.

as the moon waxed and waned ten times, powerful vacuums were applied** in both directions. now the merger is complete! the two are now one. there is nothing but the One. all that is seen is The One; all that is unseen is also The One.

** not that there's anything wrong with that.

by Impedimenta Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:07 pm

panini press wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

HA is completely mean, malicious, vindictive, and vicious. He was always like this and he will always remain like this barring something unusual in his life.
agreed 100%. i stopped interacting with him after he revealed JM's personal details.

I am an optimist. I believe he might change after he marries and has children.

Or maybe when he crosses 30.
Hey, isn't he supposed to be a teenager or something? At least according to the other highly ethical poster who uses people's (or their family members') medical conditions in arguments with them...

like like pick between the two options, people:

a) we all have way too much time on our hands

b) we all have way too much bandwidth

freakin Zoo

by Impedimenta Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:08 pm

MAx, awesome videos. thanks for posting. love dwijavanthi!

by Idéfix Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:08 pm

How about both of the above?

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:16 pm

lol. am sure max cancelled his classes today. at least his students must be happy today.

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:18 pm

Rashmun wrote:I am an optimist. I believe he might change after he marries and has children.

do dykes have children?

by Hellsangel Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:20 pm

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
Rashmun wrote:I am an optimist. I believe he might change after he marries and has children.
do dykes have children?

Hello, old dog! Looks like between the East and the West, the center once again got screwed sideways.

by goodcitizn Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:25 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:Good thread. Thanks for posting the Youtube videos in particular, Max. I find this cross-pollination between the two classical music traditions of India much more fascinating than the agenda-driven nonsense we are often subjected to here.

I think Rashman was teased a lot as a kid coz of his stuttering. He found his voice online and fancies himself a great debater now.

I was a terrible stutterer till the 10th standard and was subjected to a lot of ridicule. I was so upset with my speech impediment that I decided to face it one day by participating in the school's oratorical contest. I recited the "Impeachment Of Warren Hastings" by Edmund Burke and stammered repeatedly but never once thought of quitting. The audience started to clap seeing me struggle, yet fight. That was a great moment for me in helping me eventually overcome my handicap. I won the consolation prize in the debate and still have the small cup on my bookshelf as a reminder of the struggle and shame during my boyhood days. Today people who know me would be hard pressed to believe I was a stutterer. But that is the truth. I can fully empathize with Rashmun on that front.

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:29 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:Good thread. Thanks for posting the Youtube videos in particular, Max. I find this cross-pollination between the two classical music traditions of India much more fascinating than the agenda-driven nonsense we are often subjected to here.

I think Rashman was teased a lot as a kid coz of his stuttering. He found his voice online and fancies himself a great debater now.

I was a terrible stutterer till the 10th standard and was subjected to a lot of ridicule. I was so upset with my speech impediment that I decided to face it one day by participating in the school's oratorical contest. I recited the "Impeachment Of Warren Hastings" by Edmund Burke and stammered repeatedly but never once thought of quitting. The audience started to clap seeing me struggle, yet fight. That was a great moment for me in helping me eventually overcome my handicap. I won the consolation prize in the debate and still have the small cup on my bookshelf as a reminder of the struggle and shame during my boyhood days. Today people who know me would be hard pressed to believe I was a stutterer. But that is the truth. I can fully empathize with Rashmun on that front.

+1

same for my older and same for sharukh khan and hritikh roshan

by Idéfix Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:00 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:Good thread. Thanks for posting the Youtube videos in particular, Max. I find this cross-pollination between the two classical music traditions of India much more fascinating than the agenda-driven nonsense we are often subjected to here.

I think Rashman was teased a lot as a kid coz of his stuttering. He found his voice online and fancies himself a great debater now.

I was a terrible stutterer till the 10th standard and was subjected to a lot of ridicule. I was so upset with my speech impediment that I decided to face it one day by participating in the school's oratorical contest. I recited the "Impeachment Of Warren Hastings" by Edmund Burke and stammered repeatedly but never once thought of quitting. The audience started to clap seeing me struggle, yet fight. That was a great moment for me in helping me eventually overcome my handicap. I won the consolation prize in the debate and still have the small cup on my bookshelf as a reminder of the struggle and shame during my boyhood days. Today people who know me would be hard pressed to believe I was a stutterer. But that is the truth. I can fully empathize with Rashmun on that front.

That's a great story... and a good speech, remember reading it in high school.

by Idéfix Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:07 pm

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
panini press wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:mr.agenda has no interest in music whatsoever, just like he has no interest in dance whatsoever. there is only one reason why he participates in these threads.
Or languages. Or history. I am not sure if he has a real interest in the strong men he worships*, or if that's agenda-driven too.

* Not that there is anything wrong with that.
as the moon waxed and waned ten times, powerful vacuums were applied** in both directions. now the merger is complete! the two are now one. there is nothing but the One. all that is seen is The One; all that is unseen is also The One.

** not that there's anything wrong with that.

Are you...
- upset
- angry
- jealous
- all of the above
... that two other posters seem to agree on something? Not that there is anything wrong with that!

by Guest Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:07 pm

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:Good thread. Thanks for posting the Youtube videos in particular, Max. I find this cross-pollination between the two classical music traditions of India much more fascinating than the agenda-driven nonsense we are often subjected to here.

I think Rashman was teased a lot as a kid coz of his stuttering. He found his voice online and fancies himself a great debater now.

I was a terrible stutterer till the 10th standard and was subjected to a lot of ridicule. I was so upset with my speech impediment that I decided to face it one day by participating in the school's oratorical contest. I recited the "Impeachment Of Warren Hastings" by Edmund Burke and stammered repeatedly but never once thought of quitting. The audience started to clap seeing me struggle, yet fight. That was a great moment for me in helping me eventually overcome my handicap. I won the consolation prize in the debate and still have the small cup on my bookshelf as a reminder of the struggle and shame during my boyhood days. Today people who know me would be hard pressed to believe I was a stutterer. But that is the truth. I can fully empathize with Rashmun on that front.
+1

same for my older and same for sharukh khan and hritikh roshan

Question to GC and HK, did speech therapists help in any way? Or was the condition eliminated entirely through self-therapy?

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:39 pm

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
panini press wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:mr.agenda has no interest in music whatsoever, just like he has no interest in dance whatsoever. there is only one reason why he participates in these threads.
Or languages. Or history. I am not sure if he has a real interest in the strong men he worships*, or if that's agenda-driven too.

* Not that there is anything wrong with that.
as the moon waxed and waned ten times, powerful vacuums were applied** in both directions. now the merger is complete! the two are now one. there is nothing but the One. all that is seen is The One; all that is unseen is also The One.

** not that there's anything wrong with that.

looks like the process of vacuuming produces advaita vedanta! amazing.

by goodcitizn Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:06 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:Good thread. Thanks for posting the Youtube videos in particular, Max. I find this cross-pollination between the two classical music traditions of India much more fascinating than the agenda-driven nonsense we are often subjected to here.

I think Rashman was teased a lot as a kid coz of his stuttering. He found his voice online and fancies himself a great debater now.

I was a terrible stutterer till the 10th standard and was subjected to a lot of ridicule. I was so upset with my speech impediment that I decided to face it one day by participating in the school's oratorical contest. I recited the "Impeachment Of Warren Hastings" by Edmund Burke and stammered repeatedly but never once thought of quitting. The audience started to clap seeing me struggle, yet fight. That was a great moment for me in helping me eventually overcome my handicap. I won the consolation prize in the debate and still have the small cup on my bookshelf as a reminder of the struggle and shame during my boyhood days. Today people who know me would be hard pressed to believe I was a stutterer. But that is the truth. I can fully empathize with Rashmun on that front.
+1

same for my older and same for sharukh khan and hritikh roshan

Question to GC and HK, did speech therapists help in any way? Or was the condition eliminated entirely through self-therapy?

I overcame it on my own. I focused on the words or sounds that would cause me to stutter. I'd go up on the terrace and practice saying them. Slowly I grew in confidence. My kid brother also stuttered but not as much as I did. (I was accused of having influenced him as a toddler!). Once I started to overcome my stuttering, so did he. Much of stuttering is attributable to the mind working faster than the tongue. Slowing the process down and getting rid of the anxiety worked for me. And for my brother as well.

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