what about kallis

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:05 pm

another guy, besides me that is, wonders why kallis doesn't merit a place in the world of idolatry? sachin is supersplendiferousheroicmagnifico god, lara a mere god, and ponting is an exceptional human. what about kallis then?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/556454.html

by southindian Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:50 pm

Kallis was a good all rounder. nice player.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:51 pm

southindian wrote:Kallis was a good all rounder. nice player.

yes yes but not a supersplendiferousheroicmagnifico god.

by southindian Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:55 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
southindian wrote:Kallis was a good all rounder. nice player.

yes yes but not a supersplendiferousheroicmagnifico god.

you are right Max.

by truthbetold Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:00 pm

Max,
who stopped you from building a temple to kallis ? if your temple does not draw crowds that is not a shame. Why force others to think like you?

by southindian Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:03 pm

truthbetold wrote:Max,
who stopped you from building a temple to kallis ? if your temple does not draw crowds that is not a shame. Why force others to think like you?

Yes, I unanimously support a grand Kali. S. temple next to the Khusboo temple.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:38 pm

i have no desire for temple building, but i was wondering why the temple builders are oblivious to the record.

one has two thousand runs or so less than the other (but a statistically significant 2 percentage points higher average), but about 240 wkts more in tests. their ODI batting averages are about the same, but one has played more than a hundred matches more, but the one who has played the lower number of ODI matches has 110 wkts more.

by truthbetold Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:33 pm

Max,
One is born in India.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:18 pm

truthbetold wrote:Max,
One is born in India.

sure, but patriotic fervor surely doesn't kill the ability to look at numbers and stop oneself from making ridiculous statements, does it?

it might also be that the person in question is understated and no fuss about his own greatness just like an indian #3 that we know well.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica/content/story/703909.html

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:23 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Max,
One is born in India.

sure, but patriotic fervor surely doesn't kill the ability to look at numbers and stop oneself from making ridiculous statements, does it?

it might also be that the person in question is understated and no fuss about his own greatness just like an indian #3 that we know well.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica/content/story/703909.html

Indians have to have a God....and only one - be it sports, politics, family or work. Of course, when it comes to religion that anyone and everyone can be God.

by truthbetold Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:35 pm

Max,
If sa do not care about their hero and build temples for him, that is somehow Indian fan's fault? What did kallis do for India? Conversely what did fans in other countries do for india#3? I do not know what your problem is?

The knowledgeable fan in India appreciates sachin and respects ponting and kallis. Rest of Indian fans enjoy themselves by watching sachin. I do not see any problem with that.

The only problem I see is your obsession with the average Indian fan's adulation of sachin. Such anger on your part is irrational.

by churi. Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:17 am

truthbetold wrote:Max,
If sa do not care about their hero and build temples for him, that is somehow Indian fan's fault? What did kallis do for India? Conversely what did fans in other countries do for india#3? I do not know what your problem is?

The knowledgeable fan in India appreciates sachin and respects ponting and kallis. Rest of Indian fans enjoy themselves by watching sachin. I do not see any problem with that.

The only problem I see is your obsession with the average Indian fan's adulation of sachin. Such anger on your part is irrational.

Creating idols and gods out of sporting heroes is just not part of the SA culture and mentality. Even if Kallis eclipsed SRT's records, it would still never have happened. That said, the turnout on Day 3 at Kingsmead was disgraceful - I don't think any other test-playing nation would have shown that sort of apathy to its greatest cricketer ever. I thought the guard of honor the Indians gave him was a pretty classy move.

by truthbetold Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:49 am

http://www.southaustralia.com/info.aspx?id=9000001&rs=b%7cAU%7cAU

Churi,
Have you heard of a certain bradman from Australia? The above link provides details of a bradman collection.

Indian culture is still fuedal and seeks exaggerated old fashioned ways of expressing their emotions. Western culture seeks methods like mueseums instead of temples. That type of adoration may appeal to your sophisticated western tastes.

Kallis represents a hugely divided society. I do not know the dynamics of sa society but it has something to do with lack of mass hysteria. But kallis is a quite guy with a top of the world performance. So he is greatly appreciated in sa among all races and widely appreciated by knowledgeable fans across the world.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:32 am

truthbetold wrote:I do not know the dynamics of sa society but it has something to do with lack of mass hysteria.

it may also be that lack of mass hysteria is the normal state of being in many countries not named india.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:50 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:I do not know the dynamics of sa society but it has something to do with lack of mass hysteria.

it may also be that lack of mass hysteria is the normal state of being in many countries not named india.

I cant believe that the SA team is actually focused on the match and winning it - in stead of converting this into a Kallis match.

Kallis would be praying that he be born in India in his next life.

by nevada Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:56 am

For sheer longevity alone Kallis deserves high praise. Batting for such long periods and then bowling in the mid 130s is not an easy job. Look at Shane Watson with a similar role - he keeps breaking down so often that injury should be his middle name.

by churi. Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:59 pm

truthbetold wrote:http://www.southaustralia.com/info.aspx?id=9000001&rs=b%7cAU%7cAU

Churi,
Have you heard of a certain bradman from Australia? The above link provides details of a bradman collection.

>>>Have you heard of Nelson Mandela? When he died, the talking heads on all the networks were predicting a massive funeral turnout to rival that of Churchill's. A swarm of world leaders descended on Pretoria. But the SA public couldn't be bothered and the stadium was half empty. So I guess it's not surprising that a cricketer can't fill a stadium.

As for the link you provided, I think:
legendary cricketer > museum > good thing
legendary cricketer > temples, shrines, worship > not a good thing

Indian culture is still fuedal and seeks exaggerated old fashioned ways of expressing their emotions. Western culture seeks methods like mueseums instead of temples. That type of adoration may appeal to your sophisticated western tastes.

>>>My "sophisticated Western tastes"? What are you talking about? I am already working on my own variation of this for Kallis:
http://www.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/sachin-tendulkars-199th-test-fan-frenzy-pics-110406-9.html

Kallis represents a hugely divided society. I do not know the dynamics of sa society but it has something to do with lack of mass hysteria. But kallis is a quite guy with a top of the world performance. So he is greatly appreciated in sa among all races and widely appreciated by knowledgeable fans across the world.

>>>It's not about being a deeply divided society - it's just that Saffers are not accustomed to celebrity culture and if you hail from one steeped in deification, that may be difficult to appreciate. SA is also a very strong rugby-playing nation (won the WC twice since readmission in 1995), so cricket has to compete with this (and some other sports) for the public's attention. In any case, I was actually agreeing with your previous post about why Indian fans should be concerned about showing Kallis appreciation when SA itself won't. I do wonder though, why Indians do not elevate one Rahul Dravid to the same pedestal SRT occupies. He is pure class in every respect. The whole god-making process in India needs some reworking.

by churi. Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:01 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:I do not know the dynamics of sa society but it has something to do with lack of mass hysteria.

it may also be that lack of mass hysteria is the normal state of being in many countries not named india.

There is mass hysteria, and then there is just plain apathy.
Surely there should be some middle ground.

by Kris Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:07 pm

>>>You're on the money on this one, Churi. Why do I think I left? These guys just don't recognize a god when they see one. Smile

Hey, on another note, do you like Indians who went to America and come back for periodic visits? Rishi forgot to add this category in his query as to which demographic subsets you feel comfortable with? Smile

P.S. Happy new year.

by churi. Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:41 pm

Kris wrote:>>>You're on the money on this one, Churi. Why do I think I left? These guys just don't recognize a god when they see one.
Hey, on another note, do you like Indians who went to America and come back for periodic visits? Rishi forgot to add this category in his query as to which demographic subsets you feel comfortable with?

P.S. Happy new year.

But why *did* you leave, Kris? And yeah, I have no clue where to begin answering Rishi's (somewhat bizarre) question. Smile

Happy new year to you as well, Kris.

by truthbetold Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:52 pm

Indians and Indian fans are who they are for historical reasons. They do not need cultural lectures from people sitting in Usa on a issue like how they should feel about their sports stars. It is like telling American teenagers to stop idolizing Britney spears or miley cyrus.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:14 pm

truthbetold wrote:
Indians and Indian fans are who they are for historical reasons.

tough! there are all kinds of indian fans. there are many disgusted by the tendulkar worship. i am one. we indian fans don't need lectures from indian fans on what to think about hero worship.

by truthbetold Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:32 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
Indians and Indian fans are who they are for historical reasons.

tough! there are all kinds of indian fans. there are many disgusted by the tendulkar worship. i am one. we indian fans don't need lectures from indian fans on what to think about hero worship.

Max,
go tell the Indian housewife that she should not adore sachin because it hurts your western sensibilities. She will bloody well do what she feels like.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:39 pm

truthbetold wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
Indians and Indian fans are who they are for historical reasons.

tough! there are all kinds of indian fans. there are many disgusted by the tendulkar worship. i am one. we indian fans don't need lectures from indian fans on what to think about hero worship.

Max,
go tell the Indian housewife that she should not adore sachin because it hurts your western sensibilities. She will bloody well do what she feels like.

there is nothing western about my sensibilities. and since you mentioned indian housewives, i know plenty of pattis and mamis who think the tendulkar worship is unseemly and quietly adore rahul dravid and kumble. none of them have ever stepped foot outside india.

by bw Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:50 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
Indians and Indian fans are who they are for historical reasons.

tough! there are all kinds of indian fans. there are many disgusted by the tendulkar worship. i am one. we indian fans don't need lectures from indian fans on what to think about hero worship.

Max,
go tell the Indian housewife that she should not adore sachin because it hurts your western sensibilities. She will bloody well do what she feels like.

there is nothing western about my sensibilities. and since you mentioned indian housewives, i know plenty of pattis and mamis who think the tendulkar worship is unseemly and quietly adore rahul dravid and kumble. none of them have ever stepped foot outside india.

different people, different gods. you know the story of the north indian, the iyengar woman and gods.

by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:01 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
Indians and Indian fans are who they are for historical reasons.

tough! there are all kinds of indian fans. there are many disgusted by the tendulkar worship. i am one. we indian fans don't need lectures from indian fans on what to think about hero worship.

Max,
go tell the Indian housewife that she should not adore sachin because it hurts your western sensibilities. She will bloody well do what she feels like.

there is nothing western about my sensibilities. and since you mentioned indian housewives, i know plenty of pattis and mamis who think the tendulkar worship is unseemly and quietly adore rahul dravid and kumble. none of them have ever stepped foot outside india.

Adore they do. Who they adore is not the point.

by churi. Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:04 pm

truthbetold wrote:
Indians and Indian fans are who they are for historical reasons. They do not need cultural lectures from people sitting in Usa on a issue like how they should feel about their sports stars. It is like telling American teenagers to stop idolizing Britney spears or miley cyrus.

What are you talking about...every single day I am telling some Western kid or the other to please not be like Britney/Miley/Kardashian/Beiber. Oh, and I am not one of the "people sitting in USA".

by truthbetold Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:29 am

churi. wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
Indians and Indian fans are who they are for historical reasons. They do not need cultural lectures from people sitting in Usa on a issue like how they should feel about their sports stars. It is like telling American teenagers to stop idolizing Britney spears or miley cyrus.

What are you talking about...every single day I am telling some Western kid or the other to please not be like Britney/Miley/Kardashian/Beiber. Oh, and I am not one of the "people sitting in USA".

Churi
i am sure you do. pretty soon we will be reading about in blogs and newspapers.

by truthbetold Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:45 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
Indians and Indian fans are who they are for historical reasons.

tough! there are all kinds of indian fans. there are many disgusted by the tendulkar worship. i am one. we indian fans don't need lectures from indian fans on what to think about hero worship.

Max,
go tell the Indian housewife that she should not adore sachin because it hurts your western sensibilities. She will bloody well do what she feels like.

there is nothing western about my sensibilities. and since you mentioned indian housewives, i know plenty of pattis and mamis who think the tendulkar worship is unseemly and quietly adore rahul dravid and kumble. none of them have ever stepped foot outside india.

max,
the fact that some Indian housewives prefer dravid to sachin shows people are making choices out of their own will with their own analysis. You approve of the adoration of dravid but somehow find other fans choice as inferior because it didn't match your preferences. If kallis lacks fan following it is not sachin's fault.

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