aging in india

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:31 pm

not a topic much discussed here, but are there articles and stories you have read about aging in contemporary india and the choices that people make about where and how to spend their final years? for example the advantages of living in old age homes versus living with adult children? what do you know about geriatric care, end of life care, pain management for the terminally ill and so on? nothing catastrophic has happened in my own family, but i want to take some proactive measures. any articles or resources will be much appreciated. personal experiences through PM is also fine. thanks in advance.

by rawemotions Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:42 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:not a topic much discussed here, but are there articles and stories you have read about aging in contemporary india and the choices that people make about where and how to spend their final years? for example the advantages of living in old age homes versus living with adult children? what do you know about geriatric care, end of life care, pain management for the terminally ill and so on? nothing catastrophic has happened in my own family, but i want to take some proactive measures. any articles or resources will be much appreciated. personal experiences through PM is also fine. thanks in advance.

Old age homes are proliferating, and seem to be in two classes medium end and High end. Reasonably expensive, anywhere from 30L to 55L.

Some of them allow kitchens and some of them have community kitchens, with only a small kitchen inside the apartment.

Some of them offer 99 year leases and some offer direct to own.There are also short term lease options 3-10 Years. Even if they do not live there, once something is leased /owned maintenance has to be paid.

However, they seem to be short on common transportation options (only personal transportation which is difficult in old age), and very few have stuff like Gym and sports center etc.. Also stuff like resident doctors are missing. Some of them say they have tie-ups with hospitals.

by confuzzled dude Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:56 pm

One of my relatives lived in an old age home near Hyderabad, they lived there for about a decade but their kids had to care for her (at their home) once the lady was terminally ill.

by FluteHolder Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:58 pm

I visited quite a few of them (elderly friends/relatives who are very old/terminally ill) during my last visit to India. Based on my visit, I would list them as below.

1. If the elders are healthy and educated, they would prefer to be left alone and if any sibling/close relative who is accessible and nearby helps a lot. If they are religious they would prefer to live in/near their hometown/preferred temple.

2. If they are not healthy or not educated, they are depending on any offspring (sometimes the offspring takes advantage$ of the situation).

3.If any one of the parent is seriously ill, it is the hard part. If the spouse is there to take care it is fine but if not, unless any offspring willing to take care it is really tough on them.

4.One elderly couple who have no kids are living in an old age home voluntarily. Both are highly educated and worked in very senior level jobs. Now they are adjusting to the life in old-age home as they have no other choice.

Not sure this helps but based on my visit to them, I have listed the above.

by swapna Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:17 pm

you're smart to think about this now. you don't need me to say that you should continue your efforts to find a solution that's satisfactory to the parents and the children. honest and frank talk is essential.

the best solutions will almost surely include frequent visits by the children and the grandchildren, and considerable time spent with the old folks, even if it's at an old-age home.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:27 pm

swapna wrote:you're smart to think about this now. you don't need me to say that you should continue your efforts to find a solution that's satisfactory to the parents and the children. honest and frank talk is essential.

the best solutions will almost surely include frequent visits by the children and the grandchildren, and considerable time spent with the old folks, even if it's at an old-age home.

all, thanks for the answers thus far. they are very close to all their grandchildren and the affection is very much mutual. swapna -- the bolded part above is key. finding the right language to speak about it honestly and clearly without giving offense or being misunderstood is also key. i am hoping to make it happen.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:28 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:not a topic much discussed here, but are there articles and stories you have read about aging in contemporary india and the choices that people make about where and how to spend their final years? for example the advantages of living in old age homes versus living with adult children? what do you know about geriatric care, end of life care, pain management for the terminally ill and so on? nothing catastrophic has happened in my own family, but i want to take some proactive measures. any articles or resources will be much appreciated. personal experiences through PM is also fine. thanks in advance.

Here is what I saw in CBE where a couple of oldied moved in. They sold their houses and moved into a "development" with 2 or 3 BR topnwhomes. The prioces is around 25 to 30 Lakhs. The "colony" has recreation center, reading room, cafeteria/canteen/mess. The oldies are charged some 4 to 5K a month. They are free to eat at the mess (more like college hostel mess with timing and menus). there is also a clinic/dispensary visited by some MBBS and a naamke vastu MD. The oldies live in a townhome - just like they do in their previous home.

It pretty much looks like a "apt complex" in US except with townhomes - to put it in simplistic terms. CBE has quite a few in the Vadavalli/Marudhamalai area - right at the foothills of western ghats. Its beautiful and almost gives a rural atmosphere- but right next to the TN Agri university, Forest College, and scores of other engineering colleges. Bcz of the mountains, this area cannot be developed commercially with interstates going through. So it is a good place to live/retire.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:49 pm

saamiyaar - as it happens CBE may be an option. two questions -- any specific recos of old age homes in CBE, and secondly do you know anything about hospitals in CBE? how do they compare with the best hospitals in chennai?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:42 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:saamiyaar - as it happens CBE may be an option. two questions -- any specific recos of old age homes in CBE, and secondly do you know anything about hospitals in CBE? how do they compare with the best hospitals in chennai?

Check out Vanaprastha (in Vadavalli) - apparently this is "primarily" a Brahmin dominated - not necessarily religious - retiree community.

regarding hospitals, they are just as good as in Madras. Ganga hospital is a sprawling hospital/college complex of the PSG institutions (not many know they also have med school/hospitals). There are other well known ones Ramakrishna hospitals Group, Kovai hospital, KG hospital and so on. I have known cases of Heart, liver transplant done in these hospitals - and of course by-pass, kidney transplants, knee/hip and ortho surgeries are routine at many of these hospitals. weather/water is great and even traffic is much better. Of course, there is Sadhguru right nearby at the next mountain... Razz

In Madras, even in the bestest hospitals one gets the care and royal treatment only if the patient is connected financially and/or politically or from a medical family. One of the relatives recently died when the MIOT hospital botched a simple by-pass, and the patient was transferred to Appollo who asked them to go back to MIOT. Needless to say, the pt died. And, this is from a well to do family and the person who was handling it is a big time IT honcho. But, no one with medical/political connections. It is very important for some family member to be in the medical profession. Otherwise, the Indian doctors dont see the need to explain anything to the patient family as in their mind no one will understand and they are all dumb. I have seen it time and again. and more recently last December.

by FluteHolder Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:30 pm

Of course, there is Sadhguru right nearby at the next mountain...
>>
Yes. At last ellarum ingadhaan varuveenga (whether SG or some other guru).
CBE is nice. The betel nut trees/farms near Marudamalai and the area is pretty good. CBE has a +point being in country as well as within 20 minutes of drive you will be in city limits. I saw some pretty expensive cars in those small roads near the hills. Ppl are more friendly/respectful than Chennaiites and Thamizh is muuuuch better:)
Weather is great too.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:27 pm

saamiyaar -- thanks for the pointers. i will look into your suggestions. i have some local CBE contacts that i will use to do some due diligence on these outfits.

by rawemotions Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:39 pm

FluteHolder wrote:Of course, there is Sadhguru right nearby at the next mountain...
>>
Yes. At last ellarum ingadhaan varuveenga (whether SG or some other guru).
CBE is nice. The betel nut trees/farms near Marudamalai and the area is pretty good. CBE has a +point being in country as well as within 20 minutes of drive you will be in city limits. I saw some pretty expensive cars in those small roads near the hills. Ppl are more friendly/respectful than Chennaiites and Thamizh is muuuuch better:)
Weather is great too.

Just watch out though. There is already an organization in Kerala that wants a new Muslim Dominated state out of North Kerala and wants the entire Nilgiris district to be a part of that. The way the Congress government in Kerala is acquiescing to all the unreasonable demands of Political Islamists, anything is possible. The first thing the
Political Islamists would do after getting a state is to make it Sharia Land, so SG's sylvan Ashram will be in peril.

by Ponniyin Selvan Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:44 pm

My colleague narrated me this story. His father's friend lives in a old age home. Looks like he has 3 sons settled all over the world, US, Aus. He is a bit depressed that he could have saved his wife if at least one of them stayed close and lamented what is the use of having so much money and three sons.

by goodcitizn Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:33 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:not a topic much discussed here, but are there articles and stories you have read about aging in contemporary india and the choices that people make about where and how to spend their final years? for example the advantages of living in old age homes versus living with adult children? what do you know about geriatric care, end of life care, pain management for the terminally ill and so on? nothing catastrophic has happened in my own family, but i want to take some proactive measures. any articles or resources will be much appreciated. personal experiences through PM is also fine. thanks in advance.

Max, this is a very subjective (not at all objective) matter when it comes to your own parents or aging family members. Skipping the pros and cons associated with assisted living centers, it comes down to the mindset of the elderly - some of them prefer being around people their own age while some others are repulsed by the very idea opting to be with younger people who energize them emotionally.

The key thing to consider is what they'd like to do with their time during the twilight years. In my own situtation, neither one of my parents liked the idea of living in a nursing home setting (after visiting places in India and the U.S.) nor did they even contemplate living with any of their children (we all live in the U.S.) as they were extremely hesitant in becoming a burden, let alone their reluctance to live away from India. Fortunately my father loved to paint (oil and acrylic), do batik work and even some sculpting as a hobby so he kept himself quite busy until the end. It was hard on my mother when he passed away a few years ago as she lost the most important companion in her life.

Unlike my dad who was a theosophist and didn't believe in any religion, my mother is a devout Hindu and loves spending time visiting temples, following all the typical Brahmin traditions and chanting. Because she suffers from osteoporosis and arthiritis, along with urine control problems, her mobility has been constrained of late so she is content teaching Sanskrit to the neighborhood children in the evenings and reading books. We have arranged for two shifts of nurses to be of assistance on a daily basis. We, three sons, take turns to be with her in Bangalore for emotional support more than anything else. Thankfully we all run our own businesses so we are able to be flexible.

I am glad you are being proactive on this matter. As I said, this is a subjective matter and your parents are best equipped to tell you what befits them the most.

by michelle2 Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:03 am

goodcitizn wrote:Max, this is a very subjective (not at all objective) matter

tritengaarsaamy, thank you for that explanation.

by goodcitizn Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:16 am

michelle2 wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:Max, this is a very subjective (not at all objective) matter
tritengaarsaamy, thank you for that explanation.

How very witty! You are welcome.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:45 pm

GC - thanks for taking the time to write that info laden post and for being willing to share so much openly. kudos to you! looks like you and your siblings have managed this very well. this is just the sort of thing i am looking for. i may send you a PM later to ask for more specific info. i really feel we don't talk about this openly in our indian communities. there is a feeling of dread, shame (for having "abandoned" aging parents when really our intention is far from it), unstated but very much under the surface accusations from assorted uncles, aunts, and cousins who really don't know what's going on, and general unwillingness on the part of both the emigrated children and the aging parents to talk frankly and openly. as more of us make our homes in the US and other foreign countries, i wish there was a more robust and open discussion and management strategies for making life comfortable for aging parents we have left behind.

edited to add: your father is a fine example of why it is important to develop strong passions and interests in life to sustain ourselves in our autumn years. i feel that if one's mind is healthy, that's about 80% of the battle won. physical ailments of any kind are easier to deal with than afflictions of the mind.

by goodcitizn Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:18 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote: i may send you a PM later to ask for more specific info.

Will be glad to help.

by bw Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:08 pm

the old age homes are an option as long as the couple/individual is in fairly good health and can manage their life and finance on their own. if they are not in good physical and more importantly, mental health, round the clock care is usually done through nurses on shifts. this is rather tricky since not all nurses are honest and trustworthy and often take advantage of the situation - helping themselves to items around the house, money and also not being gentle and kind to the patient. i think this sort of arrangement works as long as there is someone to oversee it. i know of some really bad stories. some folks have a trusted caretaker living full time with the elderly person but it is not always easy to find such an arrangement.

i think folks who live a full, reasonably healthy life and die peacefully without any long, debilitating ailment are lucky.

by TruthSeeker Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:25 pm

@Maxi - I only regret. Leaving my old parents by themselves in India. Its a sort of guilt that I live with. I do know that this problem is not as "scientific" in nature, than it is "emotional". The problem with humans is that as they get older - they only seek "emotional". Your and my ego will translate to it, as well. I bought a couple of rentals, to get them the rent, but I can totally notice their desire to meet their grand kids, whenever I call them. Its tough.

My only wish looking at their old age?

I have to get a heart attack! :-)

Best wishes,
TS.

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