Ferguson burning

by nevada Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:50 am

and suchers have nothing to say about this?

by Hellsangel Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:32 pm

Most of the businesses that burned down are black-owned.

I hear the protesters will soon move to Chicago and protest against the violence there.

by FluteHolder Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:36 pm

If you see the Officer's testimony and the store video which shows the the 'kid' stealing, I would say what the jury decided is fair enough.

We need Body cameras for police (for their own good as well as others). Where is VC who might object to video taping....

So the riots are just thugs taking advantage of the issue..

by Impedimenta Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:08 pm

NPR did some thorough reporting on the proceedings with detailed documentation uploaded, on their website. Usually Grand juries are conducted incognito to ensure witness protection. WSJ discussed in length, the "law of force" doctrine which is the heart of this particular proceeding.

This is how the law reads:

563.046. A law enforcement officer in effecting an arrest or in preventing an escape from custody is justified in using deadly force:
(2) When he reasonably believes that such use of deadly force is immediately necessary to effect the arrest and also reasonably believes that the person to be arrested
(a) Has committed or attempted to commit a felony; or
(b) Is attempting to escape by use of a deadly weapon; or
(c) May otherwise endanger life or inflict serious physical injury unless arrested without delay.

Basic questions still unanswered, conclusively : was Brown trying to a)surrender a) charge at the officer or c) run away. IF witness reports point to one, the physical evidence from the autopsies point to another.

Some of the witness accounts seem very dramatic(emotional) to be true, yet hard to ignore. Very baffling, IMO because the "grey" here is precarious.

25 days, 70 hours and 60 witnesses(acc to NPR) and NO PROBABLE CAUSE found by the grand jury to indict Officer Wilson! When I heard this, my initial reaction was emotional and questioned as to why this incident did not even warrant a trial! But reading the incident report, the post-mortems and witness accounts, one can see how difficult it would have been for Grand Jury to bring forth indictable charges against the officer.

the sad part is how "genuine" protestors are now going to be clubbed in with the "looters".

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:34 pm

I think the protesters must be watching too many of those "intifadas" and "muslim" protests held every friday throughout the world.

by Propagandhi711 Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:31 pm

No comments from the such intelligentsia because american blacks are involved....they are key to getting hilary elected and must not be commented on. Same with Muslim block...our desi libby intellectuals will not say anything to compromise the voting block

by nevada Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:53 pm

From smh.com.au.

[size=30]Why I killed Michael Brown: Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson explains[/size]

It's a scene that has played out repeatedly across America: A white cop stops a black teen. Sometimes there is an exchange of profanities. Maybe an arrest follows. Mostly, these events are forgotten, except perhaps by those involved. But a handful are not. That's the case in Ferguson, Missouri, where an August 9 encounter between Michael Brown and officer Darren Wilson ended in death, explosive violence, protest and another bout of national soul-searching about race.

In the months since, Wilson — a tall man, nearly 193 centimetres, with soft, doughy features — was absent from public view while his name became famous. He skipped out on a court appearance. No one in his family spoke on his behalf. His lawyers ignored requests for comment. Even Ferguson's police chief said he hadn't spoken to Wilson since Brown's killing. Wilson was a ghost: a man known in name, but not in flesh. Unanswered questions simmered.

The September testimony he delivered to the grand jury, released Monday after a prosecutor announced that Wilson would not be charged, provides the first and most detailed account directly from Wilson of Brown's shooting. It varies from many previously published stories — and accusations — about a cop who brazenly shot a youth trying to surrender, some said, with his hands up.

An undated photo shows police officer Darren Wilson shortly after he fatally shot black teenager Michael Brown.Photo: AFP

On a hot August day, Wilson drove down a street and spotted two young black men walking down the middle of the road. One wore a black shirt. The other held cigarillos. The details of a robbery earlier that day, blared out on a police radio, clicked into Wilson's head. Were they suspects? He told the two young men, one of whom was Brown, to move to the sidewalk.

Things then happened very quickly. Wilson said Brown was at his car window, enraged. Wilson said Brown hit him in the face, grabbing for his gun. Two shots fired. Brown bolted down the street. Wilson pursued. As Wilson told it, Brown charged the officer, reaching into his pants. Wilson raised his .40-caliber Sig Sauer and aimed for a lethal shot.

"All I see is his head, and that's what I shot," Wilson recalled during a September 16 grand jury session in St Louis.

A photo of police officer Darren Wilson with a bruise on his face shortly after he fatally shot black teenager Michael Brown. The image was used as evidence by the grand jury. Photo: AFP

Wilson told the story of three minutes of hot confusion, shattered glass, a misfired gun, fear and a look of anger that came across Brown's face that Wilson said made him "look like a demon." Wilson said he hasn't recovered from the shock. "I'm just kind of in shock of what just happened," he told the grand jury. "I really didn't believe it because like I said, the whole thing started over 'will you just walk on the sidewalk.'"

The first thing that struck Wilson about the two young men he saw walking down Canfield Drive's yellow line was the size difference between them. "Either the first one was really small, or the second one was really big," Wilson said he thought. After he told the men to get out of the street and walk on the sidewalk, Wilson recalled Brown, the big one, turning to him.

"Brown then replied, 'f— what you have to say.' And when he said that, it drew my attention to Brown. It was a very unusual and not expected response from a simple request," said Wilson, who decided the men were possible robbery suspects. He radioed for backup and cut them off with his car, peering out at Brown from inside his squad car.

A resident wears a button featuring a picture of teenager Michael Brown, who was killed by police officer Darren Wilson on August 9. Photo: Scott Olson/Getty Images

"As I'm opening the door, he turns, faces me, looks at me and says, 'What the f— are you going to do about it,' and shuts my door, slammed it shut," Wilson said. "… He was just staring at me, almost like to intimidate me or to overpower me. The intense face he had was just not what I expected from any of this."

Wilson told Brown to "get the f— back," but Brown allegedly hit Wilson in the side of his face "with a fist .... There was a significant amount of contact that was made to my face," Wilson testified.

Wilson, who weighs more than 90.7 kilograms, said he grabbed the 193 centimetre Brown. "When I grabbed him, the only way I can describe it is I felt like a five-year-old holding onto Hulk Hogan." Thoughts raced through Wilson's head, he said. "What do I do not to get beaten inside my car?" he said he thought.

St Louis County Prosecutor Robert McCulloch announces the grand jury's decision not to indict Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson. Photo: AP

Was mace an option? Wilson said he decided against it: "The chances of it being effective were slim to none. His hands were in front of his face, it would have blocked the mace from hitting him in the face." What about his Taser? Wilson wasn't carrying one. "It is not the most comfortable thing," he said. "They are very large; I don't have a lot of room in the front for it to be positioned."

There was only other option he said he had. "I drew my gun…. He is standing here. I said, 'Get back or I'm going to shoot you.' He immediately grabs my gun and says, 'you are too much of a p— to shoot me.'" The men struggled for the gun, and Wilson pulled the trigger.

Nothing. "It just clicked," Wilson testified. "I pull it again. It just clicked. At this point, I'm like 'why isn't this working,' this guy is going to kill me if he gets ahold of this gun.'" It finally goes off and the car's interior explodes with shattered glass and globs of blood. Wilson looked at the unarmed teen and the teen looked back. "He looked up at me and had the most intense aggressive face. The only way I can describe it, it looks like a demon, that's how angry he looked. He comes back towards me again with his hands up." But then, Wilson said Brown hit him again, and the cop couldn't get his gun to work. It clicked again, until it finally discharged a second time.

Lesley McSpadden, left, and Michael Brown, Sr, parents of slain teenager Michael Brown who was shot by a policeman in Ferguson, Missouri. Photo: AP

Brown took off running, Wilson said. At this point, Wilson said he was confronted with a choice: get out of his car and pursue — or stay put and wait for reinforcement? He chose the former. "My main goal was to keep eyes on him and just keep him contained," Wilson said. "… If I could buy 30 seconds of time, someone else will be here, we can make the arrest, nothing happens, we are all good. And it didn't happen that way."

What did happen, according to Wilson: Brown stopped running at a light pole and confronted Wilson. The cop said he yelled at the youth to get on the ground. "When he looked at me, he made like a grunting, like aggravated sound and he starts, he turns and he's coming back towards me," Wilson recalled. "His first step is coming towards me, he kind of does like a stutter step to start running. When he does that, his left hand goes in a fist and goes to his side, his right one goes under his shirt in his waistband and he starts running at me."

Wilson opened fire. He missed a few times. But he also hit Brown, who "flinched." What Wilson remembered as "tunnel vision" came over him, homing in on Brown's right hand in his waistband. "I'm just focusing on that hand when I was shooting." But the shots, Wilson said, didn't deter Brown, who continued to charge toward him.

"He was almost bulking up to run through the shots, like it was making him mad that I'm shooting him," Wilson said. "And the face that he had was looking straight through me, like I wasn't even there, I wasn't even anything in his way."

Wilson took aim at Brown's head for the shot that would kill the unarmed teen. "When he fell, he fell on his face," Wilson recalled. "I remember his feet coming up … and then they rested."

Then came the end.

"When it went into him," Wilson said, "the demeanor on his face went blank, the aggression was gone, it was gone, I mean I knew he stopped, the threat was stopped."

by bw Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:02 pm

How would American media cover the news from Ferguson, Missouri, if it were happening in just about any other country? How would the world respond differently? Here, to borrow a great idea from Slate's Joshua Keating, is a satirical take on the story you might be reading if Ferguson were in, say, Iraq or Pakistan.

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/15/6005587/ferguson-satire-another-country-russia-china

"In response, ancient American tradition called for the gathering of a community tribal council known as a "grand jury" to weigh the case. On November 24, it announced there would be no charges against the responsible security forces. The stunning decision, which reflects the opaque and mysterious nature of the "grand jury" tradition, further outraged the already despondent local populace. "

"Analysts warn the violence could spread toward oil-producing regions such as Oklahoma or even disrupt the flow of American beer supplies, some of the largest in the world, and could provide a fertile breeding ground for extremists. Though al-Qaeda is not known to have yet established a foothold in Missouri, its leaders have previously hinted at assets there."

by Hellsangel Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:02 pm

Burn the b**** down.

Meanwhile the good reverend who seems to have forgotten Matthew 22:21 should stay in New York instead of making more trouble in Ferguson.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:07 pm

Hellsangel wrote:Burn the b**** down.

Meanwhile the good reverend who seems to have forgotten Matthew 22:21 should stay in New York instead of making more trouble in Ferguson.

never mind his biological father has been pleading for calm and peaceful protest. funny how the lowest common denominator gets all the press.

by Hellsangel Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:56 pm

by southindian Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:19 pm

The man with the gun wins.

In most cases the gun is with the police, so a few tease or whacks is all they need to use it.

Don't know why in US they not aim at the legs of hands and instead go straight at the head or chest.

by Propagandhi711 Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:40 pm

Hellsangel wrote:Burn the b**** down.

Meanwhile the good reverend who seems to have forgotten Matthew 22:21 should stay in New York instead of making more trouble in Ferguson.

shouldnt he pay his taxes first? or are race baiters exempt from dues towards the state?

by Hellsangel Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:57 pm

southindian wrote:The man with the gun wins.

In most cases the gun is with the police, so a few tease or whacks is all they need to use it.

Don't know why in US they not aim at the legs of hands and instead go straight at the head or chest.

by Hellsangel Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:58 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:Burn the b**** down.

Meanwhile the good reverend who seems to have forgotten Matthew 22:21 should stay in New York instead of making more trouble in Ferguson.

shouldnt he pay his taxes first? or are race baiters exempt from dues towards the state?

That was the reference.

by nevada Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:44 pm

Meanwhile Oakland, CA is demonstrating its solidarity with Ferguson by protesting for a second straight day and vandalizing/stealing from stores. Gotta admire this Desi's guts for operating a store in such a dangerous area.

Manoj Tripathi owns a Subway restaurant across the street that was badly damaged. Six of his windows were shattered, and graffiti covered the inside of his store. Tripathi said Mayor Jean Quan called him to apologize, and that Mayor-elect Libby Schaaf had stopped by check the damage and say she was sorry. “That's a good first step,” he said. "Now I'm looking for the second step — either you fix it (contain the protests) or accept responsibility for the fallout and pay for it.”

by garam-kuta Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:41 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7WIju-nAoQ

by Propagandhi711 Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:55 pm

Why police did not aim for legs? Coz a man with his legs shot can still shoot..and ppl that shot at inanimate targets under no duress know how difficult hitting a 2'x2' target is, let alone legs under high stress situations.

by Propagandhi711 Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:57 pm

Chris Rock vid is damn true..l.Walk around with chip on shoulder and head up your ass and sooner or later your ass is gonna b kicked, police or no police, regardless of what armchair Libby intellectuals will tell you.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:55 pm

where do we go after ferguson?

a damning indictment of obama's ineffectual leadership on this issue.

also, giuliani is an ass.

My recent dust-up with Mr. Giuliani on national television tapped a deep vein of racially charged perception. In a discussion on “Meet the Press” of Ferguson and its racial fallout, Mr. Giuliani steered the conversation down the path of a conservative shibboleth: that the real problem facing black communities is not brutality at the hands of white cops but brutality in the grips of black thugs. He cited the fact that 93 percent of black homicide victims are killed by black people; I argued that these murderers often go to jail, unlike the white cops who kill blacks with the backing of the government. What I didn’t have time to say was that 84 percent of white homicide victims are killed by white people, and yet no language of condemnation exists to frame a white-on-white malady that begs relief by violent policing.

giuliani also comes across as retarded as the author points out, to draw and equivalence between black on black shooting (shooter and victim are both civilians) and white cop on black shooting (shooter is an agent of the law and the victim a civilian).

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:06 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:where do we go after ferguson?

a damning indictment of obama's ineffectual leadership on this issue.

also, giuliani is an ass.

Rule #1: the uneducated, hispanics and Blacks (more then others) should be taught NOT to (ever) argue with cops. we had a violent incident at workplace and the 20 yr old kept argueing with the cop and showing off his "rights" the cop laughed and told him he could simply handcuff him on suspicion of trespassing and arrest him on resisting.

Cops are no different.. or simply put...dont mess with those with power...without knowing your own limitations.

As Jesus would say "Thou shalt know your limitation"

by Hellsangel Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:08 pm

Percentage of homicide victims that are black

Percentage of US population that is black.

Do your math.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:09 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:where do we go after ferguson?

a damning indictment of obama's ineffectual leadership on this issue.

also, giuliani is an ass.

Rule #1: the uneducated, hispanics and Blacks (more then others) should be taught NOT to (ever) argue with cops. we had a violent incident at workplace and the 20 yr old kept argueing with the cop and showing off his "rights" the cop laughed and told him he could simply handcuff him on suspicion of trespassing and arrest him on resisting.

Cops are no different.. or simply put...dont mess with those with power...without knowing your own limitations.

As Jesus would say "Thou shalt know your limitation"

my daughter showed me a video of an unarmed black man down on the ground, his hands away from his body, face down, begging an officer saying he is unarmed, and to please not shoot him because he has a family and children, and asking him in very respectable language what he had done to be treated like that. what do you recommend they do when they behave exactly like you described in your post and still get manhandled by the cops?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:11 pm

Hellsangel wrote:Percentage of homicide victims that are black

Percentage of US population that is black.

Do your math.

that is NOT the point. the point is that most white people are killed by white people. why is it that no racially based argument exists in that narrative?

by Hellsangel Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:26 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:Percentage of homicide victims that are black

Percentage of US population that is black.

Do your math.

that is NOT the point. the point is that most white people are killed by white people. why is it that no racially based argument exists in that narrative?

The race-baiters already made the police shooting a racially based narrative. So let them deal with it.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:34 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:where do we go after ferguson?

a damning indictment of obama's ineffectual leadership on this issue.

also, giuliani is an ass.

Rule #1: the uneducated, hispanics and Blacks (more then others) should be taught NOT to (ever) argue with cops. we had a violent incident at workplace and the 20 yr old kept argueing with the cop and showing off his "rights" the cop laughed and told him he could simply handcuff him on suspicion of trespassing and arrest him on resisting.

Cops are no different.. or simply put...dont mess with those with power...without knowing your own limitations.

As Jesus would say "Thou shalt know your limitation"

my daughter showed me a video of an unarmed black man down on the ground, his hands away from his body, face down, begging an officer saying he is unarmed, and to please not shoot him because he has a family and children, and asking him in very respectable language what he had done to be treated like that. what do you recommend they do when they behave exactly like you described in your post and still get manhandled by the cops?

You are expecting "perfection" from a human-based service. The point is such "bad" incidents are few(er) in US than in India. No matter what the law says and no matter how much training one is given, human perception, view, and personal experience rule their actions. If we argue with a traffic cop, he can use the "reasonable suspicion" to expand into checking your car, trunk, etc...until you get upset and make a wrong move. being educated you simply obey "the Sir" and take your chances in the court. The teenagers and uneducated lack this ability.

No matter what passport an immigrant holds he/she is still a phorener - that should never be forgotten when dealing with law enforcement.

In India, one has to be aware of casteism/regionalism in dealing with govt offices in TN. Not that it will always happen, but in crunch situations they ARE indeed applied.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:48 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:where do we go after ferguson?

a damning indictment of obama's ineffectual leadership on this issue.

also, giuliani is an ass.

Rule #1: the uneducated, hispanics and Blacks (more then others) should be taught NOT to (ever) argue with cops. we had a violent incident at workplace and the 20 yr old kept argueing with the cop and showing off his "rights" the cop laughed and told him he could simply handcuff him on suspicion of trespassing and arrest him on resisting.

Cops are no different.. or simply put...dont mess with those with power...without knowing your own limitations.

As Jesus would say "Thou shalt know your limitation"

my daughter showed me a video of an unarmed black man down on the ground, his hands away from his body, face down, begging an officer saying he is unarmed, and to please not shoot him because he has a family and children, and asking him in very respectable language what he had done to be treated like that. what do you recommend they do when they behave exactly like you described in your post and still get manhandled by the cops?

You are expecting "perfection" from a human-based service. The point is such "bad" incidents are few(er) in US than in India. No matter what the law says and no matter how much training one is given, human perception, view, and personal experience rule their actions. If we argue with a traffic cop, he can use the "reasonable suspicion" to expand into checking your car, trunk, etc...until you get upset and make a wrong move. being educated you simply obey "the Sir" and take your chances in the court. The teenagers and uneducated lack this ability.

No matter what passport an immigrant holds he/she is still a phorener - that should never be forgotten when dealing with law enforcement.

In India, one has to be aware of casteism/regionalism in dealing with govt offices in TN. Not that it will always happen, but in crunch situations they ARE indeed applied.

a) should black people whose ancestors have been here since they were brought over from africa think of themselves as you so quaintly put it, "phoreners"?

b) do you give this advice to your kids too? and will they continue to give it to their children? when and where does it stop?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:01 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:where do we go after ferguson?

a damning indictment of obama's ineffectual leadership on this issue.

also, giuliani is an ass.

Rule #1: the uneducated, hispanics and Blacks (more then others) should be taught NOT to (ever) argue with cops. we had a violent incident at workplace and the 20 yr old kept argueing with the cop and showing off his "rights" the cop laughed and told him he could simply handcuff him on suspicion of trespassing and arrest him on resisting.

Cops are no different.. or simply put...dont mess with those with power...without knowing your own limitations.

As Jesus would say "Thou shalt know your limitation"

my daughter showed me a video of an unarmed black man down on the ground, his hands away from his body, face down, begging an officer saying he is unarmed, and to please not shoot him because he has a family and children, and asking him in very respectable language what he had done to be treated like that. what do you recommend they do when they behave exactly like you described in your post and still get manhandled by the cops?

You are expecting "perfection" from a human-based service. The point is such "bad" incidents are few(er) in US than in India. No matter what the law says and no matter how much training one is given, human perception, view, and personal experience rule their actions. If we argue with a traffic cop, he can use the "reasonable suspicion" to expand into checking your car, trunk, etc...until you get upset and make a wrong move. being educated you simply obey "the Sir" and take your chances in the court. The teenagers and uneducated lack this ability.

No matter what passport an immigrant holds he/she is still a phorener - that should never be forgotten when dealing with law enforcement.

In India, one has to be aware of casteism/regionalism in dealing with govt offices in TN. Not that it will always happen, but in crunch situations they ARE indeed applied.

a) should black people whose ancestors have been here since they were brought over from africa think of themselves as you so quaintly put it, "phoreners"?

b) ~~do you~~ should "phoreners" give this advice to their kids too? ~~and will they continue to give it to their children~~? and they to their kids? when and where does it stop?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:17 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

a) should black people whose ancestors have been here since they were brought over from africa think of themselves as you so quaintly put it, "phoreners"?

b) ~~do you~~ should "phoreners" give this advice to their kids too? ~~and will they continue to give it to their children~~? and they to their kids? when and where does it stop?

The Broad-defintion of African American and hispanic terms are losing their meaning. The real descendants of slaves are in the South and non-cities. Those in NYC, SFO, St Louis, and LA are only marginally slave descendants and more like modern african immigrants. Same with Hispanics which is overwhelmingly central/South americans and Mexicans and VERY FEW true real hispanics who are in US along with teh slaves and whites since 16th century. The kenyan/Nigerian/Brazilian, Puerto Rican, Columbian, Mexican, Nicaraguan/Honduran illegal/legalized/legal migrants reap the benefits meant for minorities. These are mostly economic migrants who should not be given any special treatment.

I tell all the kids I come across - right passport but wrong color - and to act smart knowing their limitations.

by FluteHolder Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:52 pm

>>
right passport, right color but no $connections can get you in trouble too. (while few Governors/congressmen were sent to jail for crimes/bribes but no White Banker or (black) or Steve Cohen or Former NJ governor who is involved in a hedge fund /forex related crime still not charged.) Last week I was talking with a business owner/partner of a firm managed by former Law Enforcement Officials. This person told me that there are 'too many people in this country and too many criminals too but not enough police/enforcement officials'. Not sure this is true but shocked to get that from such an experienced person.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:35 pm

it's always good to listen to the man wearing a uniform in the car with the flashing lights who also sports a sidearm. but i wouldn't put it in terms of "knowing their limitations". IMO language matters while discussing this with youngsters, and "knowing your limitations" is not language i am comfortable with. i have had a discussion about this with an indian boy who looks black. i had an occasion to discuss this very matter with him. my advice was to listen to the cop even if he felt the cop was being unfair, and then use the power of the law after the fact to get even.

my kids worry about this when i travel alone (not so much when i am traveling with them), because like many indian men i look middle-eastern. i tell them not to worry, because i don't intend to resist a cop and create a scene ever.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:11 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:it's always good to listen to the man wearing a uniform in the car with the flashing lights who also sports a sidearm. but i wouldn't put it in terms of "knowing their limitations". IMO language matters while discussing this with youngsters, and "knowing your limitations" is not language i am comfortable with. i have had a discussion about this with an indian boy who looks black. i had an occasion to discuss this very matter with him. my advice was to listen to the cop even if he felt the cop was being unfair, and then use the power of the law after the fact to get even.

my kids worry about this when i travel alone (not so much when i am traveling with them), because like many indian men i look middle-eastern. i tell them not to worry, because i don't intend to resist a cop and create a scene ever.

"Know your limitation" advice is not just restricted to Cops, but also in all fields - be it dealing with bosses at work, wife at home, at banks, cable company, or dealing with Max. Know the opponent's strength but also our own limitations. It does not mean "cave-in". just bide your time, prepare well and get back at your own time and place.

by bw Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:45 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:Percentage of homicide victims that are black

Percentage of US population that is black.

Do your math.

that is NOT the point. the point is that most white people are killed by white people. why is it that no racially based argument exists in that narrative?
The race-baiters already made the police shooting a racially based narrative. So let them deal with it.

snoopy, who/what are "race-baiters"?

by Hellsangel Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:50 pm

bw wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:Percentage of homicide victims that are black

Percentage of US population that is black.

Do your math.

that is NOT the point. the point is that most white people are killed by white people. why is it that no racially based argument exists in that narrative?
The race-baiters already made the police shooting a racially based narrative. So let them deal with it.

snoopy, who/what are "race-baiters"?

Lucy, here is an example:
Ferguson burning Al-Sharpton-race-baiter-card-via-Liberty-Federation

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:54 pm

bw wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:Percentage of homicide victims that are black

Percentage of US population that is black.

Do your math.

that is NOT the point. the point is that most white people are killed by white people. why is it that no racially based argument exists in that narrative?
The race-baiters already made the police shooting a racially based narrative. So let them deal with it.

snoopy, who/what are "race-baiters"?

this is the appellation right wingers have given to people like al sharpton who travel the country inserting themselves in situations like ferguson, and do a bit of demagoguery. the conservative claim is that they turn incidents in which race has no role to play into one that seemingly does. as if all the problems would go away if people like al sharpton go away. i don't like al sharpton much myself and i am sure hellsu will give you his reply, but my opinion is that the term is a convenient deflection to fend off criticism of how white cops and indeed the justice system treat black citizens.

eta: and i see that in the time i took to write a response, he already has.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:02 pm

there are no easy answers. i don't think non-black people are being deliberately unsympathetic, but there is definitely a very wide chasm between how blacks and non-blacks see this issue in the US. not sure where indian american opinion is on this, but i bet the sardars who got targeted after 9/11 are on the side of black people.

by truthbetold Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:31 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
bw wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:Percentage of homicide victims that are black

Percentage of US population that is black.

Do your math.

that is NOT the point. the point is that most white people are killed by white people. why is it that no racially based argument exists in that narrative?
The race-baiters already made the police shooting a racially based narrative. So let them deal with it.

snoopy, who/what are "race-baiters"?
Lucy, here is an example:

HA,

Are Glen Beck, Savage, O'Brien, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, linda Ingram and Rush Limbaugh racists or race baiters?

by bw Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:29 pm

are only blacks race-baiters? are there any white ones?

by Hellsangel Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:27 am

bw wrote:are only blacks race-baiters? are there any white ones?

Sure, there are. But none so well-known.

by Hellsangel Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:39 am

Hellsangel wrote:
bw wrote:are only blacks race-baiters? are there any white ones?
Sure, there are. But none so well-known.

A list from 2013:
http://www.hardhatters.com/2013/11/top-ten-biggest-race-baiters-2013/

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:41 am

bw wrote:are only blacks race-baiters? are there any white ones?

sure they do. how about the de facto head of the GOP?

http://mediamatters.org/research/2012/01/12/rush-limbaugh-opens-2012-with-more-race-baiting/186125

by Hellsangel Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:17 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:are only blacks race-baiters? are there any white ones?

sure they do. how about the de facto head of the GOP?

http://mediamatters.org/research/2012/01/12/rush-limbaugh-opens-2012-with-more-race-baiting/186125

Rush Limbaugh, at best is an entertainer who has marketed himself very well. Your reaction is testament to that.

by bw Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:22 am

Hellsangel wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
bw wrote:are only blacks race-baiters? are there any white ones?
Sure, there are. But none so well-known.

A list from 2013:
http://www.hardhatters.com/2013/11/top-ten-biggest-race-baiters-2013/

what site is this? who runs it? they have a dedicated tab for the second amendment. Rolling Eyes

shdn't MLK be on the list every year ? after all, he did the most whining.

by Hellsangel Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:27 am

bw wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
bw wrote:are only blacks race-baiters? are there any white ones?
Sure, there are. But none so well-known.

A list from 2013:
http://www.hardhatters.com/2013/11/top-ten-biggest-race-baiters-2013/

what site is this? who runs it? they have a dedicated tab for the second amendment.

shdn't MLK be on the list every year ? after all, he did the most whining.

Sure. Let's equate the likes of Rev Al to MLK Jr.

by bw Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:30 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:are only blacks race-baiters? are there any white ones?

sure they do. how about the de facto head of the GOP?

http://mediamatters.org/research/2012/01/12/rush-limbaugh-opens-2012-with-more-race-baiting/186125

oh, he hasn't sympathized with the blacks. by definition, he is NOT a race-baiter. or have i misunderstood the term? *puzzled*

by bw Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:31 am

Hellsangel wrote:
bw wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
bw wrote:are only blacks race-baiters? are there any white ones?
Sure, there are. But none so well-known.

A list from 2013:
http://www.hardhatters.com/2013/11/top-ten-biggest-race-baiters-2013/

what site is this? who runs it? they have a dedicated tab for the second amendment.

shdn't MLK be on the list every year ? after all, he did the most whining.
Sure. Let's equate the likes of Rev Al to MLK Jr.

it was a LIST that had the US govt as an entry.

by Hellsangel Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:35 am

bw wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
bw wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Sure, there are. But none so well-known.

A list from 2013:
http://www.hardhatters.com/2013/11/top-ten-biggest-race-baiters-2013/

what site is this? who runs it? they have a dedicated tab for the second amendment.

shdn't MLK be on the list every year ? after all, he did the most whining.
Sure. Let's equate the likes of Rev Al to MLK Jr.

it was a LIST that had the whole US govt as an entry.

Now, do people who have strong feelings about affirmative action consider it a form of reverse racism?

Note: It is only considered racism when exhibited by whites towards blacks.

by Hellsangel Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:13 pm

Meanwhile in Portland, Oregon:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/29/living/ferguson-protest-hug/index.html

by truthbetold Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:41 am

Hellsangel wrote:
bw wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
bw wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:

what site is this? who runs it? they have a dedicated tab for the second amendment.

shdn't MLK be on the list every year ? after all, he did the most whining.
Sure. Let's equate the likes of Rev Al to MLK Jr.

it was a LIST that had the whole US govt as an entry.

Now, do people who have strong feelings about affirmative action consider it a form of reverse racism?

Note: It is only considered racism when exhibited by whites towards blacks.

"It is only considered racism when exhibited by whites towards blacks."

Why is that a surprise considering the history of the world and history of USA and current state of affairs in USA?

by truthbetold Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:44 am

truthbetold wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
bw wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

that is NOT the point. the point is that most white people are killed by white people. why is it that no racially based argument exists in that narrative?
The race-baiters already made the police shooting a racially based narrative. So let them deal with it.

snoopy, who/what are "race-baiters"?
Lucy, here is an example:
HA,

Are Glen Beck, Savage, O'Brien, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, linda Ingram and Rush Limbaugh racists or race baiters?

HA

Are you unwilling or unable to answer this question?

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