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How can Pakistan take the path to "secularism", like India?

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How can Pakistan take the path to "secularism", like India? Empty How can Pakistan take the path to "secularism", like India?

Post by Seva Lamberdar Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:03 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Back in the city, therefore, Sethi made a solemn plea to the Indian intelligentsia: "Don't become like us. Hold on to your constitutional principles. Don't push your country into anarchy by removing the term Secular that describes the spirit of India." His sentiments were echoed by fellow panelist, also from Pakistan, Imtiaz Alam. The two are not just aware of the unrestrained statements issued by BJP leaders but are also familiar with just what the 'fringe' Parivar elements have been up to, of late.
In the city recently for an international conference, leading media personality from Pakistan, Najam Sethi, presented a rather grim picture of secularism in his country. Ruing how secularism had become a cuss word in Pakistan, he said secularists there are, sadly, believed to be against Islam -- the official religion of Pakistan.
According to, Kumar Ketkar, a rightwing intellectual, the term secularist, as understood by Nehru and "his small group of elite" has undergone a massive change. Such secularists are now called pseudo secularists because they have no connect with ground realities and are perceived as pro-Muslim and anti-Hindu. His contention is that secularism has to be redefined "to suit the changing times."
Much before India became independent, Mahatma Gandhi wrote in Hind Swaraj, "In no part of the world is one nationality and one religion synonymous, nor has it been ever in India."

Jawaharlal Nehru, the architect of Secular India, said in 1961: "We talk about a secular state in India... Some people think it means something opposed to religion. That obviously is not correct. What it means is that it is a state which honours all faiths equally and gives them equal opportunities."

The views of Nehru were reiterated by Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan, the then President of India.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Pak-scribes-bat-for-Indian-secularism/articleshow/46648846.cms

-> Let's hope that NRI patriots are listening and paying attention.

(Ref.: https://such.forumotion.com/t31088-don-t-become-like-us-apakistani-journalist-ex-cm-advises-india#195605)

Good point CD.

Why don’t the Pakistanis (these journalists etc. from Pakistan) ask their Govt. to immediately transform Pakistan into a secular country, just like India whose secularism they so admire and even feel threatened by the current Indian ruling party.

Pakistani Govt., like the previous Indian Govt. in  the 1970s, can quickly bring an amendment to the Pakistani Constitution and declare Pakistan officially and Constitutionally as a secular country, notwithstanding the current use of religious law / laws in Pakistan (just like the official use of religious laws in India during 1970s and even now).  Then Pakistan will be a secular country as India is currently. Moreover, Pakistan will have the religious legal system in use just like India does, in spite of being called  a secular country.

In addition, soon after Pakistan gets the secular status, the religious minorities in Pakistan (just like in India) can go on the evangelical and conversion spree under the excuse of freedom of religion in trying to convert people from the majority community, while even using the financial help and “holy” instructions from abroad.

And if people from the majority community do the same (i.e. try converting people from the minority communities or try bringing them back as “ghar wapasi”), the minorities in Pakistan can make noise, drawing attention all over the world, that they don’t have a freedom of religion in Pakistan and that the secularism in Pakistan is under a threat. Who knows then the president or prime minister of another country might even lecture the Pakistani Govt. on the need for freedom of religion in Pakistan and remind the Pakistanis about the clause / amendment on secularism in the Pakistani Constitution!
Seva Lamberdar
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How can Pakistan take the path to "secularism", like India? Empty Re: How can Pakistan take the path to "secularism", like India?

Post by southindian Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:24 am

These 2 words, "Pakistan" and "Secularism" cannot be used in the same sentence.
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How can Pakistan take the path to "secularism", like India? Empty Re: How can Pakistan take the path to "secularism", like India?

Post by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:36 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Back in the city, therefore, Sethi made a solemn plea to the Indian intelligentsia: "Don't become like us. Hold on to your constitutional principles. Don't push your country into anarchy by removing the term Secular that describes the spirit of India." His sentiments were echoed by fellow panelist, also from Pakistan, Imtiaz Alam. The two are not just aware of the unrestrained statements issued by BJP leaders but are also familiar with just what the 'fringe' Parivar elements have been up to, of late.
In the city recently for an international conference, leading media personality from Pakistan, Najam Sethi, presented a rather grim picture of secularism in his country. Ruing how secularism had become a cuss word in Pakistan, he said secularists there are, sadly, believed to be against Islam -- the official religion of Pakistan.
According to, Kumar Ketkar, a rightwing intellectual, the term secularist, as understood by Nehru and "his small group of elite" has undergone a massive change. Such secularists are now called pseudo secularists because they have no connect with ground realities and are perceived as pro-Muslim and anti-Hindu. His contention is that secularism has to be redefined "to suit the changing times."
Much before India became independent, Mahatma Gandhi wrote in Hind Swaraj, "In no part of the world is one nationality and one religion synonymous, nor has it been ever in India."

Jawaharlal Nehru, the architect of Secular India, said in 1961: "We talk about a secular state in India... Some people think it means something opposed to religion. That obviously is not correct. What it means is that it is a state which honours all faiths equally and gives them equal opportunities."

The views of Nehru were reiterated by Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan, the then President of India.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Pak-scribes-bat-for-Indian-secularism/articleshow/46648846.cms

-> Let's hope that NRI patriots are listening and paying attention.

(Ref.: https://such.forumotion.com/t31088-don-t-become-like-us-apakistani-journalist-ex-cm-advises-india#195605)

Good point CD.

Why don’t the Pakistanis (these journalists etc. from Pakistan) ask their Govt. to immediately transform Pakistan into a secular country, just like India whose secularism they so admire and even feel threatened by the current Indian ruling party.

Pakistani Govt., like the previous Indian Govt. in  the 1970s, can quickly bring an amendment to the Pakistani Constitution and declare Pakistan officially and Constitutionally as a secular country, notwithstanding the current use of religious law / laws in Pakistan (just like the official use of religious laws in India during 1970s and even now).  Then Pakistan will be a secular country as India is currently. Moreover, Pakistan will have the religious legal system in use just like India does, in spite of being called  a secular country.

In addition, soon after Pakistan gets the secular status, the religious minorities in Pakistan (just like in India) can go on the evangelical and conversion spree under the excuse of freedom of religion in trying to convert people from the majority community, while even using the financial help and “holy” instructions from abroad.

And if people from the majority community do the same (i.e. try converting people from the minority communities or try bringing them back as “ghar wapasi”), the minorities in Pakistan can make noise, drawing attention all over the world, that they don’t have a freedom of religion in Pakistan and that the secularism in Pakistan is under a threat. Who knows then the president or prime minister of another country might even lecture the Pakistani Govt. on the need for freedom of religion in Pakistan and remind the Pakistanis about the clause / amendment on secularism in the Pakistani Constitution!

we might even have a pakistani syed lamberdar who will then suggest UCC as a panacea for all problems!
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How can Pakistan take the path to "secularism", like India? Empty Re: How can Pakistan take the path to "secularism", like India?

Post by rawemotions Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:35 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Back in the city, therefore, Sethi made a solemn plea to the Indian intelligentsia: "Don't become like us. Hold on to your constitutional principles. Don't push your country into anarchy by removing the term Secular that describes the spirit of India." His sentiments were echoed by fellow panelist, also from Pakistan, Imtiaz Alam. The two are not just aware of the unrestrained statements issued by BJP leaders but are also familiar with just what the 'fringe' Parivar elements have been up to, of late.
In the city recently for an international conference, leading media personality from Pakistan, Najam Sethi, presented a rather grim picture of secularism in his country. Ruing how secularism had become a cuss word in Pakistan, he said secularists there are, sadly, believed to be against Islam -- the official religion of Pakistan.
According to, Kumar Ketkar, a rightwing intellectual, the term secularist, as understood by Nehru and "his small group of elite" has undergone a massive change. Such secularists are now called pseudo secularists because they have no connect with ground realities and are perceived as pro-Muslim and anti-Hindu. His contention is that secularism has to be redefined "to suit the changing times."
Much before India became independent, Mahatma Gandhi wrote in Hind Swaraj, "In no part of the world is one nationality and one religion synonymous, nor has it been ever in India."

Jawaharlal Nehru, the architect of Secular India, said in 1961: "We talk about a secular state in India... Some people think it means something opposed to religion. That obviously is not correct. What it means is that it is a state which honours all faiths equally and gives them equal opportunities."

The views of Nehru were reiterated by Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan, the then President of India.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Pak-scribes-bat-for-Indian-secularism/articleshow/46648846.cms

-> Let's hope that NRI patriots are listening and paying attention.

(Ref.: https://such.forumotion.com/t31088-don-t-become-like-us-apakistani-journalist-ex-cm-advises-india#195605)

Good point CD.

Why don’t the Pakistanis (these journalists etc. from Pakistan) ask their Govt. to immediately transform Pakistan into a secular country, just like India whose secularism they so admire and even feel threatened by the current Indian ruling party.

Pakistani Govt., like the previous Indian Govt. in  the 1970s, can quickly bring an amendment to the Pakistani Constitution and declare Pakistan officially and Constitutionally as a secular country, notwithstanding the current use of religious law / laws in Pakistan (just like the official use of religious laws in India during 1970s and even now).  Then Pakistan will be a secular country as India is currently. Moreover, Pakistan will have the religious legal system in use just like India does, in spite of being called  a secular country.

In addition, soon after Pakistan gets the secular status, the religious minorities in Pakistan (just like in India) can go on the evangelical and conversion spree under the excuse of freedom of religion in trying to convert people from the majority community, while even using the financial help and “holy” instructions from abroad.

And if people from the majority community do the same (i.e. try converting people from the minority communities or try bringing them back as “ghar wapasi”), the minorities in Pakistan can make noise, drawing attention all over the world, that they don’t have a freedom of religion in Pakistan and that the secularism in Pakistan is under a threat. Who knows then the president or prime minister of another country might even lecture the Pakistani Govt. on the need for freedom of religion in Pakistan and remind the Pakistanis about the clause / amendment on secularism in the Pakistani Constitution!
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Last edited by rawemotions on Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

rawemotions

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How can Pakistan take the path to "secularism", like India? Empty Re: How can Pakistan take the path to "secularism", like India?

Post by rawemotions Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:35 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Back in the city, therefore, Sethi made a solemn plea to the Indian intelligentsia: "Don't become like us. Hold on to your constitutional principles. Don't push your country into anarchy by removing the term Secular that describes the spirit of India." His sentiments were echoed by fellow panelist, also from Pakistan, Imtiaz Alam. The two are not just aware of the unrestrained statements issued by BJP leaders but are also familiar with just what the 'fringe' Parivar elements have been up to, of late.
In the city recently for an international conference, leading media personality from Pakistan, Najam Sethi, presented a rather grim picture of secularism in his country. Ruing how secularism had become a cuss word in Pakistan, he said secularists there are, sadly, believed to be against Islam -- the official religion of Pakistan.
According to, Kumar Ketkar, a rightwing intellectual, the term secularist, as understood by Nehru and "his small group of elite" has undergone a massive change. Such secularists are now called pseudo secularists because they have no connect with ground realities and are perceived as pro-Muslim and anti-Hindu. His contention is that secularism has to be redefined "to suit the changing times."
Much before India became independent, Mahatma Gandhi wrote in Hind Swaraj, "In no part of the world is one nationality and one religion synonymous, nor has it been ever in India."

Jawaharlal Nehru, the architect of Secular India, said in 1961: "We talk about a secular state in India... Some people think it means something opposed to religion. That obviously is not correct. What it means is that it is a state which honours all faiths equally and gives them equal opportunities."

The views of Nehru were reiterated by Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan, the then President of India.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Pak-scribes-bat-for-Indian-secularism/articleshow/46648846.cms

-> Let's hope that NRI patriots are listening and paying attention.

(Ref.: https://such.forumotion.com/t31088-don-t-become-like-us-apakistani-journalist-ex-cm-advises-india#195605)

Good point CD.

Why don’t the Pakistanis (these journalists etc. from Pakistan) ask their Govt. to immediately transform Pakistan into a secular country, just like India whose secularism they so admire and even feel threatened by the current Indian ruling party.

Pakistani Govt., like the previous Indian Govt. in  the 1970s, can quickly bring an amendment to the Pakistani Constitution and declare Pakistan officially and Constitutionally as a secular country, notwithstanding the current use of religious law / laws in Pakistan (just like the official use of religious laws in India during 1970s and even now).  Then Pakistan will be a secular country as India is currently. Moreover, Pakistan will have the religious legal system in use just like India does, in spite of being called  a secular country.

In addition, soon after Pakistan gets the secular status, the religious minorities in Pakistan (just like in India) can go on the evangelical and conversion spree under the excuse of freedom of religion in trying to convert people from the majority community, while even using the financial help and “holy” instructions from abroad.

And if people from the majority community do the same (i.e. try converting people from the minority communities or try bringing them back as “ghar wapasi”), the minorities in Pakistan can make noise, drawing attention all over the world, that they don’t have a freedom of religion in Pakistan and that the secularism in Pakistan is under a threat. Who knows then the president or prime minister of another country might even lecture the Pakistani Govt. on the need for freedom of religion in Pakistan and remind the Pakistanis about the clause / amendment on secularism in the Pakistani Constitution!
If this ignorant author calls Kumar Ketkar as Right wing intellectual, then the article is NOT even worth the piece of paper it is printed on. Times continues to go from bad to worse. It was full of jokers, who give much more importance to the barbarian inhabited country that knows nothing else other than cover the territory of its neighbors.

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How can Pakistan take the path to "secularism", like India? Empty Re: How can Pakistan take the path to "secularism", like India?

Post by Seva Lamberdar Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:24 am

rawemotions wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Back in the city, therefore, Sethi made a solemn plea to the Indian intelligentsia: "Don't become like us. Hold on to your constitutional principles. Don't push your country into anarchy by removing the term Secular that describes the spirit of India." His sentiments were echoed by fellow panelist, also from Pakistan, Imtiaz Alam. The two are not just aware of the unrestrained statements issued by BJP leaders but are also familiar with just what the 'fringe' Parivar elements have been up to, of late.
In the city recently for an international conference, leading media personality from Pakistan, Najam Sethi, presented a rather grim picture of secularism in his country. Ruing how secularism had become a cuss word in Pakistan, he said secularists there are, sadly, believed to be against Islam -- the official religion of Pakistan.
According to, Kumar Ketkar, a rightwing intellectual, the term secularist, as understood by Nehru and "his small group of elite" has undergone a massive change. Such secularists are now called pseudo secularists because they have no connect with ground realities and are perceived as pro-Muslim and anti-Hindu. His contention is that secularism has to be redefined "to suit the changing times."
Much before India became independent, Mahatma Gandhi wrote in Hind Swaraj, "In no part of the world is one nationality and one religion synonymous, nor has it been ever in India."

Jawaharlal Nehru, the architect of Secular India, said in 1961: "We talk about a secular state in India... Some people think it means something opposed to religion. That obviously is not correct. What it means is that it is a state which honours all faiths equally and gives them equal opportunities."

The views of Nehru were reiterated by Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan, the then President of India.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Pak-scribes-bat-for-Indian-secularism/articleshow/46648846.cms

-> Let's hope that NRI patriots are listening and paying attention.

(Ref.: https://such.forumotion.com/t31088-don-t-become-like-us-apakistani-journalist-ex-cm-advises-india#195605)

Good point CD.

Why don’t the Pakistanis (these journalists etc. from Pakistan) ask their Govt. to immediately transform Pakistan into a secular country, just like India whose secularism they so admire and even feel threatened by the current Indian ruling party.

Pakistani Govt., like the previous Indian Govt. in  the 1970s, can quickly bring an amendment to the Pakistani Constitution and declare Pakistan officially and Constitutionally as a secular country, notwithstanding the current use of religious law / laws in Pakistan (just like the official use of religious laws in India during 1970s and even now).  Then Pakistan will be a secular country as India is currently. Moreover, Pakistan will have the religious legal system in use just like India does, in spite of being called  a secular country.

In addition, soon after Pakistan gets the secular status, the religious minorities in Pakistan (just like in India) can go on the evangelical and conversion spree under the excuse of freedom of religion in trying to convert people from the majority community, while even using the financial help and “holy” instructions from abroad.

And if people from the majority community do the same (i.e. try converting people from the minority communities or try bringing them back as “ghar wapasi”), the minorities in Pakistan can make noise, drawing attention all over the world, that they don’t have a freedom of religion in Pakistan and that the secularism in Pakistan is under a threat. Who knows then the president or prime minister of another country might even lecture the Pakistani Govt. on the need for freedom of religion in Pakistan and remind the Pakistanis about the clause / amendment on secularism in the Pakistani Constitution!
If this ignorant author calls Kumar Ketkar as Right wing intellectual, then the article is NOT even worth the piece of paper it is printed on. Times continues to go from bad to worse. It was full of jokers, who give much more importance to the barbarian inhabited country that knows nothing else other than cover the territory of its neighbors.
"Do The Pakistani Scribes See A Path To Secularism For Their Country, Like India?" .......
http://creative.sulekha.com/do-the-pakistani-scribes-see-a-path-to-secularism-for-their-country-like-india_622697_blog
Seva Lamberdar
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