Hindi in canadian school

by Kayalvizhi Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:35 pm

International Day at Son's School

Radha Krishnamurthy

A few years ago my son's school in Canada held an "International Day" to broaden the outlook of the children. The school had children of immigrants from a number of countries. I remember India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, China, Poland, Ukraine and Germany.

The school had set up a large board for each of these countries. Some basic information about the country, such as country map, capital city, population, language, literacy rate, etc. was written on these boards. In the "Indian Board', Hindi was written as the language. It bothered me.

I went to the teacher in charge of organizing the International Day and told her politely that Hindi is not the only language of India. She replied that an Indian parent told her that Hindi is the official language and everyone understood it. I told her that was false information. Hindi is the official language along with English as the associate official language. Not everyone understands Hindi. Indian government employees are forced to learn and do at least some of the work in Hindi, and many non-Hindi employees resent it. Tamil Nadu State with a population of 60 million people does not teach Hindi in its schools. There are many languages in India and some are spoken by population greater than Canada. So listing Hindi as THE Indian language is misrepresentation and the children are getting wrong information. I asked her to search the Internet for "anti-Hindi agitation" and "Hindi imposition". I told her that opposition to Hindi imposition is not limited to Tamil Nadu State but she would find many sites and articles by people from Karnataka, West Bengal and a few other states. [I did not give her any specific site. I wanted her to see for herself the extent of sites on this topic.]

The teacher asked me what I think the board should say under languages. I gave her a few suggestions and let her choose.

1. Multiple languages, each spoken by millions.

2. List all the languages listed in the Indian constitution. It could be too many for the board.

3. Hindi and English are the official and associate official languages but not all Indian understand them. There are many languages each spoken by tens of millions.

She chose to combine my second and third suggestions. She changed the board to "Hindi and English are the official languages but not every Indian understands them. There are many other languages spoken by millions. Then she listed all the languages listed in the constitution in small letters."

It is up to non-Hindi Indians in foreign countries to set the record straight and tell foreigners the truth. As long as Hindi speakers assert in foreign countries that Hindi is THE language of India or lingua franca of India, the non-Hindi people have not only the right but also a responsibility to set things straight. If not us, who? If not now, when?

There are more stories at

http://www.tamiltribune.com/11/0101html

by Miss.Blah Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:36 pm

Kayalvizhi..You should worry about your native people who deny to speak tamil and opt for french and german as their second language in school and at graduation level,That is real pity.
Its about time we stand united and accept Hindi as our national language and teach our future generation proper fluent spoken hindi.
On a global platform you cant go and give lecture on how many languages are spoken in india.Fellow tamilians must focus on getting their children speak good tamil and prepare them by teaching Hindi as well for them to face a wider world.Put the good old resentment in trash bin.It doesn't hurt to learn an Indian language. Jai Hind!

by Kayalvizhi Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:04 pm

>> It doesn't hurt to learn an Indian language.

People from Tamilnadu do not consider us as Indians. So why should we learn this Indian language?

by Hellsangel Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:34 pm

Kayalvizhi wrote:>> It doesn't hurt to learn an Indian language.

People from Tamilnadu do not consider us as Indians. So why should we learn this Indian language?

What do people in Tamilnadu call you? Sri Lankans?

by Kayalvizhi Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:47 pm

>> What do people in Tamilnadu call you? Sri Lankans?

Native of Tamil Nadu.

by Kayalvizhi Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:09 pm

To Hells angel the English teacher-

>> People from Tamilnadu do not consider us as Indians. So why should we learn this Indian language?

May be I should have written it better as

We the people of Tamilnadu do not consider us Indians.

Or, People of TN do not consider ourselves Indians.

by Miss.Blah Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:12 am

We the people of Tamilnadu do not consider us Indians.

Or, People of TN do not consider ourselves Indians.[/quote] Kayal...Loosa pa nee Question

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:44 am

Miss.Blah wrote:It doesn't hurt to learn an Indian language. Jai Hind!

many tamilians already speak hindi. more tamilians will do so after:

a) all biharis, rajasthanis, uttar pradeshis, madya pradeshis and other assorted folks whose first language is hindi, learn to read and write hindi.

b) as many people whose native language is hindi learn to speak tamil, as the number of tamilians who already speak hindi.

by doofus_maximus Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:54 am

full props to Miss Blah for successfully waking Max up from his slumber.

by Guest Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:57 am

many tamilians already speak english. More tamilians will do so after:

b) as many people whose native language is english learn to speak tamil, as the number of tamilians who already speak english.

by Guest Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:00 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Miss.Blah wrote:It doesn't hurt to learn an Indian language. Jai Hind!

many tamilians already speak hindi. more tamilians will do so after:

a) all biharis, rajasthanis, uttar pradeshis, madya pradeshis and other assorted folks whose first language is hindi, learn to read and write hindi.

b) as many people whose native language is hindi learn to speak tamil, as the number of tamilians who already speak hindi.

--> P. Chidambaram, the Indian home minister from Tamil Nadu, begs to differ from you.

by Guest Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:02 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Miss.Blah wrote:It doesn't hurt to learn an Indian language. Jai Hind!

many tamilians already speak hindi. more tamilians will do so after:

a) all biharis, rajasthanis, uttar pradeshis, madya pradeshis and other assorted folks whose first language is hindi, learn to read and write hindi.

b) as many people whose native language is hindi learn to speak tamil, as the number of tamilians who already speak hindi.

--> P. Chidambaram, the Indian home minister from Tamil Nadu, begs to differ from you.

by Guest Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:03 pm

kinnera wrote:many tamilians already speak english. More tamilians will do so after:

b) as many people whose native language is english learn to speak tamil, as the number of tamilians who already speak english.

haha... thumbs up (we need this icon too)

by Guest Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:05 pm

And why is this telugu going through two hindi newspapers every day. answer my question, max.

http://www.indiaenews.com/politics/20080404/108734.htm

by sambarvada Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:18 pm

===> Any hopes of Chidambaram becoming the CM of TN is out the window.

On the other hand, this guy may be sucking up to Hindi fanatics in NI or "throwing a bone to the dog" so that he could become a PM one day.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:06 pm

english is a pathway to a job with multinationals, graduate studies in the US or UK, or in general an upwardly mobile lifestyle. hindi is a pathway to clerking or peoning at the post office and responding to commands like "saab ko zara chai lE AnA".

all politicians are worse than pond scum. that doesn't change the basic rationale behind my position. rashmun you know i don't care much for your arguing by quoting authority. that never works. if i don't pay much heed to bharathi, it is unlikely chidambaram's speeches would make a whit of a difference to me.

by Rekz Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:10 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:english is a pathway to a job with multinationals, graduate studies in the US or UK, or in general an upwardly mobile lifestyle. hindi is a pathway to clerking or peoning at the post office and responding to commands like "saab ko zara chai lE AnA".

Maxman-Do you follow Hindi? Read/write/?

Do you watch Hindi movies?

Enjoy Hindi poetry?

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:12 pm

i know functional hindi and can read devnagiri script. i watch hindi movies if they are critically acclaimed or recommended by someone whose opinion i respect. the last movie i enjoyed was khosla ka ghosla. actually same goes for tamil movies too. no i don't enjoy hindi/urdu poetry but like hindustani music.

by Guest Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:13 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:english is a pathway to a job with multinationals, graduate studies in the US or UK, or in general an upwardly mobile lifestyle. hindi is a pathway to clerking or peoning at the post office and responding to commands like "saab ko zara chai lE AnA".

i agree. but not everyone in a country of more than 1 billion people gets to have good jobs in multinationals or get to do grad studies in US or UK or live an upwardly mobile lifestyle. english is certainly the language of the future and it should be encouraged as much as possible. the point is that as of now you cannot do away with hindi.

on another note, why do we see chandrababu naidu going through two hindi newspapers every day? i gave the link to this in my earlier post. why do we see chidambaram being supportive of hindi?

i recall HK posting a link on this forum about how more and more tamilians are learning hindi.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:17 pm

english is just as alien as hindi to tamilians who know no other language. if such a person has the time and resources to learn an extra language besides tamil, english is more bang for the buck.

by Guest Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:25 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:english is just as alien as hindi to tamilians who know no other language. if such a person has the time and resources to learn an extra language besides tamil, english is more bang for the buck.

why are more and more tamilians in tamil nadu learning hindi?

by Impedimenta Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:30 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:english is just as alien as hindi to tamilians who know no other language. if such a person has the time and resources to learn an extra language besides tamil, english is more bang for the buck.

why are more and more tamilians in tamil nadu learning hindi?

beats me. they shouldn't.

by Guest Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:47 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:english is a pathway to a job with multinationals, graduate studies in the US or UK, or in general an upwardly mobile lifestyle. hindi is a pathway to clerking or peoning at the post office and responding to commands like "saab ko zara chai lE AnA".

Many tamil parents in Chennai feel the same abt tamil too. They see the uselessness of teaching tamil to their children, eventhough it is their mother tongue. They see it only as a language to converse with peons, drivers, servant maids, watchmen, streetside vendors etc.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:50 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:english is just as alien as hindi to tamilians who know no other language. if such a person has the time and resources to learn an extra language besides tamil, english is more bang for the buck.

why are more and more tamilians in tamil nadu learning hindi?

firstly i'd like to see the evidence that more and more tamilians are preferring to learn hindi over english. my point was simply an economics based one and it still stands. it's important to distinguish between tamilians who are doing that, as opposed to tamilians who already know english, and are learning an additional foreign language.

during my time in a high school in tamilnadu, the answer to your question used to be, "easier to score marks than tamil".

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:00 pm

kinnera - you are schizophrenic. you like to argue for both sides of an issue. i'd be worried for my health if i were you. i have seen you berate hindi chauvinists on sulekha before. either that, or you've changed your mind or simply confused.

today if i had the time to learn an indian language that i don't yet know, my choice would be telugu. my reason is so that i can enjoy telugu CM krithis more. i hope that gives you a measure of comfort.

by artood2 Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:02 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:kinnera - you are schizophrenic. you like to argue for both sides of an issue. i'd be worried for my health if i were you. i have seen you berate hindi chauvinists on sulekha before. either that, or you've changed your mind or simply confused.

today if i had the time to learn an indian language that i don't yet know, my choice would be telugu. my reason is so that i can enjoy telugu CM krithis more. i hope that gives you a measure of comfort.

It berating a chauvinist same as not agreeing to a point?

Your incentives to learn a language are very different from that of a street hawker, a farmer, a clerk or a travelling salesman.

by Rekz Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:09 pm

To enjoy life in a broad perspective it's necessary for the modern generation to be multilingual.

Learn/teach yr kids,mother tongue,English,Hindi,regional language & one foreign language(if interested)in the same order & most importantly "the language of love",in case you end up in some non-English speaking countries,it will help one communicate with the localities there:)

by Guest Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:11 pm

I am neither schizophrenic nor confused. I talk against chauvinism and fanaticism. Holds good for both tamil and hindi chauvinists. I think all languages are beautiful. It doesn't make me comfortable to know that you want to learn telugu. It won't matter to me.

Btw, I had my MIL bring in books to learn tamil and kannada when she visited me recently. Tamil, because I intend to retire in Tiruvannamalai, so knowing tamil will help. Kannada, because it is my husband's mother tongue.

I am grateful that I know Hindi because I got to watch all those awesome movies made by Hrishida, Basuda, Bimal roy, guru dutt, etc while growing up. That was a rich experience. Right now I'm listening to

a great song composed by Salilda, from Basu Chatterji's movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS9mCRinBtA&feature=share

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:20 pm

kinnera wrote:I talk against chauvinism and fanaticism. Holds good for both tamil and hindi chauvinists.

someone who expects tamilians to learn hindi (in fact prescribing to them that it is better for them than english), but not have the same expectations of hindi speakers to learn tamil is a chauvinist. i've never come across a tamil chauvinist.

tamilians have and will continue to learn hindi as and when the need arises in their lives. no national prescription or program is required.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:22 pm

Rekz wrote:To enjoy life in a broad perspective it's necessary for the modern generation to be multilingual.

it's even more important to first be literate, i.e. be able to read and write one language, any language. and it's easiest to learn to do that in one's native language. so my bigger concern is for illiterate hindi speakers than for tamilians who don't know hindi.

by indophile Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:24 pm

[quote="kinnera"]

Btw, I had my MIL bring in books to learn tamil and kannada....... Kannada, because it is my husband's mother tongue.

My suggestion for the quickest way to learn Kannada.

Watch "Chy. Sow. Savitri" a Kannada serial on Zee Kannada.

Then immediately watch "Pasupu Kumkuma" a Telugu serial on Zee Telugu.

One is a word-to-word copy of the other: Smile

Btw, old episodes of both are available on Youtube.

by artood2 Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:25 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
kinnera wrote:I talk against chauvinism and fanaticism. Holds good for both tamil and hindi chauvinists.

someone who expects tamilians to learn hindi (in fact prescribing to them that it is better for them than english), but not have the same expectations of hindi speakers to learn tamil is a chauvinist. i've never come across a tamil chauvinist.

tamilians have and will continue to learn hindi as and when the need arises in their lives. no national prescription or program is required.

Saar why should Hindi speaker learn Tamil and not Konkani, Dogri, Maithili, Gujarati, Tulu or Malyalam?

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:29 pm

artood2 wrote:
Saar why should Hindi speaker learn Tamil and not Konkani, Dogri, Maithili, Gujarati, Tulu or Malyalam?

actually i have no recommendation for hindi speakers at all, other than to shut the fuck up and not preach about learning hindi. when they do, i ask them questions like this to point out the inanity of their prescriptions. they are free to learn any language of their choice.

by artood2 Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:45 pm

[quote="MaxEntropy_Man"]

artood2 wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Saar why should Hindi speaker learn Tamil and not Konkani, Dogri, Maithili, Gujarati, Tulu or Malyalam?

actually i have no recommendation for hindi speakers at all, other than to shut the fuck up and not preach about learning hindi. when they do, i ask them questions like this to point out the inanity of their prescriptions. they are free to learn any language of their choice.

Saar, you and your chauvinism can not see a reason. you have no argument at all (STFU does not count)

You have no solution to real life problem that people face. People who run into problems find lot better problems than your ego lets you discover.

Now sir plese stop spreading your love (that would be STFU in MAX-speak).

by doofus_maximus Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:46 pm

I think we are better off learning Gujarati given the industrial growth in that state. My brother having lived there 20 years speaks fairly good Gujarati.

by Guest Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:48 pm

if hindi speakers are free to learn the language of their choice, then tamil speakers are also free to do the same. why so much angst when some of them do chose to learn hindi?

by Guest Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:49 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
kinnera wrote:I talk against chauvinism and fanaticism. Holds good for both tamil and hindi chauvinists.

someone who expects tamilians to learn hindi (in fact prescribing to them that it is better for them than english), but not have the same expectations of hindi speakers to learn tamil is a chauvinist. i've never come across a tamil chauvinist.

tamilians have and will continue to learn hindi as and when the need arises in their lives. no national prescription or program is required.

I've spoken against both: the ones demanding others to learn hindi and the ones who desist and resist everything abt hindi. Both the extremes are bad. Thankfully, most linguistic grps in India are neutral and are not fanatical for(abt) or against any language.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:50 pm

tracy: i have no angst about any individual learning any language. my angst is about wasteful government programs to promote hindi.

by Guest Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:52 pm

was it you or impy who said 'beats me. they shouldn't'?

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:52 pm

kinnera wrote:
Both the extremes are bad.

are you for or against the central government spending taxpayer rupees to promote hindi?

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:53 pm

Tracy Whitney wrote:was it you or impy who said 'beats me. they shouldn't'?

scrolling up and finding out is easier than making a new post.

by Guest Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:03 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
kinnera wrote:
Both the extremes are bad.

are you for or against the central government spending taxpayer rupees to promote hindi?

I don't care abt central govt spending rupees to promote hindi. It wastes a lot of taxpayers money on a lot of things. Spending it on teaching ppl a language ain't that horrible. I'm more concerned abt corruption and bringing back all the crores and crores of illegal money stashed in swiss banks.

by Guest Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:04 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Tracy Whitney wrote:was it you or impy who said 'beats me. they shouldn't'?

scrolling up and finding out is easier than making a new post.

not really when you are sneaking into CH in a 2x4 window.

by Propagandhi711 Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:04 pm

doofus_maximus wrote:I think we are better off learning Gujarati given the industrial growth in that state. My brother having lived there 20 years speaks fairly good Gujarati.

I never had a gujju babe. have you?

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:06 pm

kinnera: this conversation is about languages in india and the role of government. why conflate it with the unrelated issue of government corruption?

in a poor country like india, do you think teaching illiterate hindi speakers to read and write is hindi is more or less important than teaching people already literate, hindi?

by doofus_maximus Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:18 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:
doofus_maximus wrote:I think we are better off learning Gujarati given the industrial growth in that state. My brother having lived there 20 years speaks fairly good Gujarati.

I never had a gujju babe. have you?

When I visited my brother in 2008 the saamnewaali was this despo horny 20 years lissome quintessential gujju babe.
Unfortunately I had the entire clan with me and all we did was tease each other and ended up doing nothing.

by Guest Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:20 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:kinnera: this conversation is about languages in india and the role of government. why conflate it with the unrelated issue of government corruption?

in a poor country like india, do you think teaching illiterate hindi speakers to read and write is hindi is more or less important than teaching people already literate, hindi?

The intention is to have its ppl know one common indian language. Not a bad intention at all. There are indeed many advantages to knowing one common indian language. The problem with some is that the language happens to be hindi. Don't bring in English pls and argue that everyone can be taught english. English is a foreign language. Hindi is more closer to other indian languages than english (may not be true for tamil). Apart from religion, like it or not, it is bollywood that connects all indians. Hollywood couldn't have done that.

by Propagandhi711 Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:22 pm

doofus_maximus wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
doofus_maximus wrote:I think we are better off learning Gujarati given the industrial growth in that state. My brother having lived there 20 years speaks fairly good Gujarati.

I never had a gujju babe. have you?

When I visited my brother in 2008 the saamnewaali was this despo horny 20 years lissome quintessential gujju babe.
Unfortunately I had the entire clan with me and all we did was tease each other and ended up doing nothing.

I woulda found a way to munch on that tasty dhokla, brood or no brood. call me daring/feckless/reckless but that's me.

by doofus_maximus Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:28 pm

I am a wimp when I am with my clan. I am this seedha saadha beta of the family.

My SIL keeps updating me about the girl. Last I heard she eloped with some random unkil.

by Impedimenta Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:30 pm

doofus_maximus wrote:I am a wimp when I am with my clan. I am this seedha saadha beta of the family.

My SIL keeps updating me about the girl. Last I heard she eloped with some random unkil.

stud muffin,

how can she go for an unkil instead of you? preposterous, i say!

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