Re: Hindi in canadian school

by Ram Sharan Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:15 am

Munni ke pas koi jawab nahi hai. Isi liye woh anap shanap bak rahi hai. taki usko jawab na dena pade.

Sali munni, tu hindi ke liye badnam mat ho. Teri to aukad hai Congress aur Islam ke liye badnam hone ka. Hindi ki bat, Hindi bolne walon ke hath chhod, samjhi. Tu urdu ke liye jang ladna, samjhi.

by Guest Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:34 am

charvaka wrote:Rashmun, feel free to respond to the question instead of pussyfooting around it. The question, to refresh your memory, is:

How will you know when The Time arrives? What are the criteria that you propose for evaluating whether The Time has arrived?

after all the pussyfooting you did in the recent past, i have lost interest in having prolonged serious discussions with you. sorry.

by Guest Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:37 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
--> let us not get personal, Max. let the stats do the talking.

well the problem is in your case the vellore komala vilas waiter usually does the talking.
or if you can't find him readily, then dead tamil poets.

--> At least give me some credit for educating you about Subramanya Bharati's views on hindi! Only when you saw the letter of Bharati did you get over your mistaken belief that the claim that Bharati was pro hindi was a canard spread by north indian politicians.

by artood2 Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:24 am

charvaka wrote:
artood2 wrote:I am sorry to say this but your arguments have not included any numbers so far.
I have shown that thousands of crores are spent on Hindi promotion -- including 700 crores on ads -- when that money could have been spent more effectively on other things.

The link you gave was semeed like someone' blog (on TOI). It did not have author nor did tell how it arrived at that number. And if that number is spent on English translators? And govt spends much more on bureaucracy for everything than it needs to be. So that is a totally different aspect of making governance efficient. Your numbers of thousands of crores were without any source.

artood2 wrote:I have a theory and the overall numbers support that theory that improvement is there at a very good rate.

At this very good rate, about 300 million people are illiterate in India as of 2011. Instead of spending those thousands of crores on fixing that, the Indian government is spending money on teaching Hindi to middle class southern Indians! If that's not misplaced priorities I don't know what is.

Again, this argument is baseless without telling me how many of those 300 million are in youth illiteracy group (15-35 years). I will rather pull money from lot more programs which are totally worthless. There is no dearth of money for Govt to spend. If illiteracy needs more money that funding is readily available. Govt can spend on teaching Hindi to lower economic strata only if you think middle class has enough fund. This still does not negate the need of link language and that Govt should spend on promoting one.

artood2 wrote:YEs this was precisely my point of institutionalisation of language barriers through creation of states. It was not a question of understanding, it was the question of assimilation (something that you said is not necessary). A common link language forges better assimilation.

Haha, again, this is laughable. Do you think knowing Hindi would have made the Tamil and Kannada people fight less? When Tamil and Kannadiga people have been talking to each other for centuries before Hindi evolved as a language? Soviet Russian leaders thought so, and taught Russian to all their subjects; both Uzbeks and Kirghiz learned Russian in schools, but that doesn't mean their fights magically disappear through this "assimilation" that you speak of!

Is the history of Tamil and Kannada is full of as many conflicts as in Central Asia? Was the conflict between Uzbeks and Kirghiz that of economic haves and have nots? Were there elements of rural vs urban control involved in that conflict? Do Tamil/Kannada have similar issues? ?if not, do not draw that parallel. Or are you debating the fact that better communication and better understanding of culture fosters better relationships. Again I did not say Hindi solved that problem. I just said that linguistic states exacerbate that problem and then you have demands of more and more tiny states that waste far more resources than the money you are talking about.

artood2 wrote:Ubiquity of exposure to English : where? English is ubiquitous in rural areas where 65% of the poopulation lives?

Yes, English is more ubiquitous than Hindi is in rural AP. English can be seen on all packaged goods, many advertisements and hoardings, business signage, etc. You would be hard pressed to find a Hindi sign in rural AP -- particularly in coastal Andhra, while you will see English signs in abundance.[/quote]

All I got to say is please travel more in rural areas in different parts of the country.

by artood2 Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:51 am

charvaka wrote:
artood2 wrote:You can do the same to show how it is not adequate. Gender is a problem. women are lagging and govt can reallocate more on women side (as they have been doing). The data you ask are not readily available. However the rate of overall increase is good and does not point to lack of resourcing. There is a gender disparity and if lack of funding would have been the issue, that disparity should have impacted both groups similarly. Again you can bring out the numbers and tell me why my argument is wrong.
I recognize that the data I ask are not readily available. That is why I have been saying that you cannot possibly know that funding is adequate for literacy programs. You look at 10-15% improvement over a ten year period and content about the rate of improvement. That is not good, because other countries at India's level of income were able to achieve higher levels of literacy faster. (At WW2, much of Asia except Japan had similar literacy levels as India. In about 30 years much of East Asia achieved near-universal literacy, while you are content with 74% in India after 70 years!)

I do not see any data to suggest that the sluggish literacy rate is due to lack of funding. It is more due to social factors that have held back women. If men-women disparity is 82-65% then it has more to say about social barriers than funding levels. Women literacy rate rose faster than men but there are still some social barriers to overcome. Again all this discussion of adequacy of funding is meaningless without enough data. Again, India has enough money to spend on both literacy and link language promotion in an effective manner. There are enough crappy govt funding that can be scrapped before you have to cut either of them.

by ashaNirasha Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:24 am

[quote="artood2"]

charvaka wrote:
artood2 wrote:You can do the same to show how it is not adequate. Gender is a problem. women are lagging and govt can reallocate more on women side (as they have been doing). The data you ask are not readily avai.......)

Again all this discussion of adequacy of funding is meaningless without enough data. Again, India has enough money to spend on both literacy and link language promotion in an effective manner. There are enough crappy govt funding that can be scrapped before you have to cut either of them.

You are contradicting yourself there.

I guess that is the very point that Carvaka is making, that promoting a 'link language' falls into the 'crappy funding' category, and that funding can be put to good use else where.

Your argument can be summed up into

1. Assimilation is important
2. The only way to assimilate is by learning Hindi
3. Hindi promoters are not chauvinists.
4. Hindi is just another Indian language, why not learn it? It can't be that hard.
5. India has enough resources spend on programs that have not shown to realistically make a difference, at least in achieving #1
6. If there is no link language, regional and linguistic pride and differences will be rampant, and India's integrity as a nation will be in danger.

Each of the above is debatable in itself.

It is probably an unrelated and an unfavorable comparison, but Pakistan was created on the basis of a single identity and religion, is more homogenous, is not as diverse and doesn't have as many linguistic differences as India, but it is nearly no where where India is at this time.

We've done reasonably well without much assimilation or a link language so far. In hind sight, if Hindi had already reached the status of a link language in the past 60 years with the effort expended so far, it would have been good.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:48 am

i think the opportunity for hindi as a link language is long gone. the DBHPS for all its pracharing of decades has failed to achieve its goals. i too like charvaka think that any penetration that hindi has achieved in the south can be chalked up to the cinema industry; it has nothing to do with the pracharing of the DBHPS which is an anachronism. india is already well integrated with the global economy and we already have english which is serving us well in that purpose, and can only become more and more entrenched.

the hindi pushers just have to accept a bitter pill and learn to move on.

by Guest Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:01 am

ashaNirasha wrote:It is probably an unrelated and an unfavorable comparison, but
Pakistan was created on the basis of a single identity and religion, is
more homogenous, is not as diverse and doesn't have as many linguistic
differences as India, but it is nearly no where where India is at this
time.

it is a good comparison but your assumptions are incorrect. a very small percentage of pakistanis speak urdu (i think around 10%) whereas > 40% of indians speak hindi. pakistan is neither homogenous nor without linguistic differences.

I guess that is the very point that Carvaka is making, that promoting a 'link language' falls into the 'crappy funding' category, and that funding can be put to good use else where.

we are still arguing whether the funding is for a crappy use or a good use. if charvaka has predetermined that it is crappy (quite possibly the case) and is not going to change his mind, then there is no argument. artood2 says that even if it is crappy, we can afford it.

now, speaking for myself,

1. Assimilation is important

not really if you are ruffled by it (as max is). assimilation might happen if a link laguage is promoted (in some cases it might not) -- but it is not the goal of developing a link language. we did not assimilate with the british by learning english or maybe we did -- both perspectives are correct.

2. The only way to assimilate is by learning Hindi

this question becomes redundant after my observation on 1

3. Hindi promoters are not chauvinists.

that ought to read link language promoters are not chauvinists. the case for hindi is that > 40% of india speaks it. yes it was a deliberate programn that brought this state of affairs today. we have to accept the ground reality.

4. Hindi is just another Indian language, why not learn it? It can't be that hard.

who said this? you? hindi is very hard to learn.

5. India has enough resources spend on programs that have not shown to realistically make a difference, at least in achieving #1

redundant.

6. If there is no link language, regional and linguistic pride and differences will be rampant, and India's integrity as a nation will be in danger.

nope. knowing hindi and carrying regional pride are not mutually exclusive. i feel we should preferrably be a trilingual public knowing these 3 languages in an order of preference: 1) english, 2) a language of choice 3) hindi.

Each of the above is debatable in itself.

i see.

We've done reasonably well without much assimilation or a link language so far.

no, there is a link language in north india -- hindi. that we have done reasonably well can be attributed to neither the presence or absence of a link language in india.

In hind sight, if Hindi had already reached the status of a link language in the past 60 years with the effort expended so far, it would have been good.

hindi has been more of a success in india as a link language than urdu has been in pakistan. perhaps that is why we are better off than them? (my last question is facetious).

edit. if you add maithili, rajasthani and a few other languages close to hindi to "hindi speakers," then this figure of > 40% will burgeon.

by Propagandhi711 Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:12 am

shit fuck religion language region bharathanattiyam kundalini powers and 4 trillion gap. good night everybody.

by Guest Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:31 am

do you even know how important this debate is? double dip recessions come and go but if the sun stops setting in the hindi empire, then the planet will be engulfed in darkness.

by Propagandhi711 Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:36 am

I agree with this message. can you post a nice pic of some nonveg curries?

by Guest Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:43 am

ha ha ha. from the internets or home made? if home made it'll take a day or two. although i've stopped eating meat, the family eats and i still taste and we still cook meat. btw you have to give me the recipe of the chicken curry you once spoke of (made with honest to goodness spices) that you used to have in your village.

by Propagandhi711 Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:43 am

the situation in the original post is so absurd. dumb cow scores a point with a clueless canadian school teacher that doesnt give a shit and feels smug.

by Guest Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:44 am

ha ha ha ha.

by Guest Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:48 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:the situation in the original post is so absurd. dumb cow scores a point with a clueless canadian school teacher that doesnt give a shit and feels smug.

now that you summarize it this way, hmm it's absurd indeed.

by Propagandhi711 Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:50 am

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:ha ha ha. from the internets or home made? if home made it'll take a day or two. although i've stopped eating meat, the family eats and i still taste and we still cook meat. btw you have to give me the recipe of the chicken curry you once spoke of (made with honest to goodness spices) that you used to have in your village.

I bet you the cook in my grandparents village is long croakeran but might be able to get you a recipe from husband.

by Guest Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:03 pm

lol @ croakeran. you speaketh too much sanskrit these days. but don't bother about the recipe. i think i have tasted that chicken curry sometime and if i try hard i can re-engineer it.

by charvaka Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:38 pm

Rashmun wrote:
charvaka wrote:Rashmun, feel free to respond to the question instead of pussyfooting around it. The question, to refresh your memory, is:

How will you know when The Time arrives? What are the criteria that you propose for evaluating whether The Time has arrived?

after all the pussyfooting you did in the recent past, i have lost interest in having prolonged serious discussions with you. sorry.

Arthaat: no answer to questions results in finding a way out of corner.

by Guest Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:44 pm

charvaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
charvaka wrote:Rashmun, feel free to respond to the question instead of pussyfooting around it. The question, to refresh your memory, is:

How will you know when The Time arrives? What are the criteria that you propose for evaluating whether The Time has arrived?

after all the pussyfooting you did in the recent past, i have lost interest in having prolonged serious discussions with you. sorry.
Arthaat: no answer to questions results in finding a way out of corner.

if you keep track of my posts you will eventually find an answer to your question. you must not begrudge me this after giving me links to your suchforum english and telugu posts in response to my simple question: are you for separate telangana or for united andhra? then when your english suchforum posts failed to answer my question, you questioned why i had not asked for a translation of your telugu posts and then also threw in the link to a three year old Sulekha CH post of yours. All this drama just to answer my simple question: are you for separate telangana or for united andhra?

by charvaka Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:51 pm

Rashmun wrote:if you keep track of my posts you will eventually find an answer to your question.

Are you claiming that you have already answered the question? Or is this one more you are "going to write a blog about" in the future?

by Guest Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:53 pm

charvaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:if you keep track of my posts you will eventually find an answer to your question.
Are you claiming that you have already answered the question? Or is this one more you are "going to write a blog about" in the future?

what i am saying is that if you go over my past posts and also my future posts you will eventually find an answer to your question.

by Guest Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:02 pm

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:but he's [my younger] firmly in the reading groove now -- reads 20/30 pages every night.

lol, i noticed this last night and i noticed it again tonight: he reads his pages and falls asleep with the ipad on his lap. at least i have taught him how to fall asleep.

------------------
edit.

the kid's busy with the ipad and he's finished his first novel, thirteen reasons why. a small break now before he chooses the next.

lol, i lied. the break's long over and he's reading a new book (of his choice) now but i've lost interest in what he's reading now. bad dad.

by charvaka Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:40 pm

Rashmun wrote:
charvaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:if you keep track of my posts you will eventually find an answer to your question.
Are you claiming that you have already answered the question? Or is this one more you are "going to write a blog about" in the future?

what i am saying is that if you go over my past posts and also my future posts you will eventually find an answer to your question.

Are you trying to define what pussyfooting is? If so, congrats, good job, and all that.

by Guest Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:52 pm

charvaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
charvaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:if you keep track of my posts you will eventually find an answer to your question.
Are you claiming that you have already answered the question? Or is this one more you are "going to write a blog about" in the future?

what i am saying is that if you go over my past posts and also my future posts you will eventually find an answer to your question.
Are you trying to define what pussyfooting is? If so, congrats, good job, and all that.

--> Thanks for giving all of us another demonstration of Charvako Logic.

by charvaka Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:36 pm

artood2 wrote:The link you gave was semeed like someone' blog (on TOI). It did not have author nor did tell how it arrived at that number. And if that number is spent on English translators? And govt spends much more on bureaucracy for everything than it needs to be. So that is a totally different aspect of making governance efficient. Your numbers of thousands of crores were without any source.

Think about it this way. We know that the government spends Rs. 700 crores on ads about Hindi. We also know the long list of things the government does to promote Hindi, from the Central Hindi Directorate and its bureaucracy, the Department of Official Language and its bureaucracy, the Hindi promotion at state-owned banks and companies, DBHPS and its particularly bloated bureaucracy, the increments provided to employees for learning Hindi. None of this is free, and it is easy to see in comparison with the known ad budget of Rs. 700 crores that the grand total is much higher, in the thousands of crores.

R2D2 wrote:Again, this argument is baseless without telling me how many of those 300 million are in youth illiteracy group (15-35 years).

You are the one who made a baseless assumption that most of the remaining illiterate people are in the older group. (You said so in an earlier post on this very thread, and you used your baseless assumption to argue that any more money spent on literacy programs won't get us any benefit. If you want, I can lookup that post and post is here to refresh your memory.) Now you are putting the onus for disproving your baseless statement on me. Fine, be that way.

Although you originally made that assumption without any data to back it up, I am willing to do the work to disprove it. I am pulling together an analysis of literacy rates by gender and age group based on available data. I will post it later this afternoon.

R2D2 wrote:I will rather pull money from lot more programs which are totally worthless...This still does not negate the need of link language and that Govt should spend on promoting one.

The "need" for a link language is something you are asserting without any proof. Why do we need a link language? Why does government need to squander precious resources on this? What return do we get for this money?

R2D2 wrote:Or are you debating the fact that better communication and better understanding of culture fosters better relationships.

I am debating that learning a third language that is foreign to both of them does nothing to resolve the tensions between the two groups. The same applies to Tamil-Kannada and Uzbek-Kirghiz issues.

R2D2 wrote:Again I did not say Hindi solved that problem.

Then it is not relevant to this discussion about Hindi -- as I originally said the first time you brought it up!

artood2 wrote:All I got to say is please travel more in rural areas in different parts of the country.

Well, I have traveled quite a bit in rural AP, Bihar and West Bengal. In both rural AP and rural Bengal, you do see more English around you than you see Hindi. In both places, so you see a lot more of the local language than you see English.

by charvaka Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:38 pm

Rashmun wrote:
charvaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
charvaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:if you keep track of my posts you will eventually find an answer to your question.
Are you claiming that you have already answered the question? Or is this one more you are "going to write a blog about" in the future?

what i am saying is that if you go over my past posts and also my future posts you will eventually find an answer to your question.
Are you trying to define what pussyfooting is? If so, congrats, good job, and all that.

--> Thanks for giving all of us another demonstration of Charvako Logic.

Rashmun Method: First make random claims ("it is not yet The Time for English"). If challenged ("how will you know when The Time has come"), then throw out distractions instead of answering the question ("permission to cricitize Charvakas".) When the other person answers your distractions ("yes, do you") and says it is your turn, continue to pussyfoot.

by charvaka Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:39 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:the situation in the original post is so absurd. dumb cow scores a point with a clueless canadian school teacher that doesnt give a shit and feels smug.

+1 to that.

by charvaka Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:41 pm

artood2 wrote:Again, India has enough money to spend on both literacy and link language promotion in an effective manner.

I do not see any data to backup that assumption you made. India, like any other country on earth, has many competing needs and limited resources. Your assertion that there is enough money for everything is quite naive.

by Guest Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:44 pm

charvaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
charvaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
charvaka wrote:Are you claiming that you have already answered the question? Or is this one more you are "going to write a blog about" in the future?

what i am saying is that if you go over my past posts and also my future posts you will eventually find an answer to your question.
Are you trying to define what pussyfooting is? If so, congrats, good job, and all that.

--> Thanks for giving all of us another demonstration of Charvako Logic.
Rashmun Method: First make random claims ("it is not yet The Time for English"). If challenged ("how will you know when The Time has come"), then throw out distractions instead of answering the question ("permission to cricitize Charvakas".) When the other person answers your distractions ("yes, do you") and says it is your turn, continue to pussyfoot.

--> Charvako, when i asked the simple question--are you for separate
telangana or for united andhra--you started pussyfooting around and giving links to your
suchforum posts some of which were in telugu. when i said your english
posts did not answer my question you did two things:
1. post a link to a three year old sulekha CH post of yours
2. complain that i did not ask for an english translation to your telugu posts.

-->
these cheap and dishonest tactics of yours might work with newbies but
old timers will just expose you every time you try it on them.

--> because of your cheap and dishonest tactics, i have said that i do not have any interest in prolonged serious discussions with you because i have come to realize that you are essentially a dishonest debater.

--> If Max were to ask me the same question, i would immediately respond. Can you fathom why that is the case, Charvako? Because he never used your technique of pussyfooting around with me. Because he never gave links to old posts and whined about why i had not asked for a translation of some of his posts--in response to a simple question like are you for separate telangana or united andhra?

by charvaka Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:47 pm

Rashmun wrote:
charvaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
charvaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

what i am saying is that if you go over my past posts and also my future posts you will eventually find an answer to your question.
Are you trying to define what pussyfooting is? If so, congrats, good job, and all that.

--> Thanks for giving all of us another demonstration of Charvako Logic.
Rashmun Method: First make random claims ("it is not yet The Time for English"). If challenged ("how will you know when The Time has come"), then throw out distractions instead of answering the question ("permission to cricitize Charvakas".) When the other person answers your distractions ("yes, do you") and says it is your turn, continue to pussyfoot.

--> Charvako, when i asked the simple question--are you for separate
telangana or for united andhra--you started pussyfooting around and giving links to your
suchforum posts some of which were in telugu. when i said your english
posts did not answer my question you did two things:
1. post a link to a three year old sulekha CH post of yours
2. complain that i did not ask for an english translation to your telugu posts.

-->
these cheap and dishonest tactics of yours might work with newbies but
old timers will just expose you every time you try it on them.

Last I checked, you got an answer to your question a few times already, but you are stuck like a broken record on that issue. Gentle reminder: the issue we are discussing here is Hindi. You claimed that it is not The Time yet for English. Now, answer the question if you can (or have the courage to admit that you have no clue and that you were just mouthing that nonsense about The Time.) If not, it will be same-old, same-old Rashmun Method.

by Guest Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:52 pm

charvaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
charvaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
charvaka wrote:Are you trying to define what pussyfooting is? If so, congrats, good job, and all that.

--> Thanks for giving all of us another demonstration of Charvako Logic.
Rashmun Method: First make random claims ("it is not yet The Time for English"). If challenged ("how will you know when The Time has come"), then throw out distractions instead of answering the question ("permission to cricitize Charvakas".) When the other person answers your distractions ("yes, do you") and says it is your turn, continue to pussyfoot.

--> Charvako, when i asked the simple question--are you for separate
telangana or for united andhra--you started pussyfooting around and giving links to your
suchforum posts some of which were in telugu. when i said your english
posts did not answer my question you did two things:
1. post a link to a three year old sulekha CH post of yours
2. complain that i did not ask for an english translation to your telugu posts.

-->
these cheap and dishonest tactics of yours might work with newbies but
old timers will just expose you every time you try it on them.
Last I checked, you got an answer to your question a few times already, but you are stuck like a broken record on that issue. Gentle reminder: the issue we are discussing here is Hindi. You claimed that it is not The Time yet for English. Now, answer the question if you can (or have the courage to admit that you have no clue and that you were just mouthing that nonsense about The Time.) If not, it will be same-old, same-old Rashmun Method.

Charvako Method: When caught with your pants down, blame the other party.

by charvaka Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:53 pm

Rashmun wrote:
charvaka wrote:Last I checked, you got an answer to your question a few times already, but you are stuck like a broken record on that issue. Gentle reminder: the issue we are discussing here is Hindi. You claimed that it is not The Time yet for English. Now, answer the question if you can (or have the courage to admit that you have no clue and that you were just mouthing that nonsense about The Time.) If not, it will be same-old, same-old Rashmun Method.

Charvako Method: When caught with your pants down, blame the other party.

Irony Alert.

by Guest Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:58 pm

charvaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
charvaka wrote:Last I checked, you got an answer to your question a few times already, but you are stuck like a broken record on that issue. Gentle reminder: the issue we are discussing here is Hindi. You claimed that it is not The Time yet for English. Now, answer the question if you can (or have the courage to admit that you have no clue and that you were just mouthing that nonsense about The Time.) If not, it will be same-old, same-old Rashmun Method.

Charvako Method: When caught with your pants down, blame the other party.
Irony Alert.

Double Irony Alert.

by charvaka Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:45 pm

R2D2, your theory was that India's literacy rate was showing "good" improvement, and that the illiterates that remain are older folks on whom it doesn't make sense to spend money to drive literacy. I will make two separate posts with numbers about this.

The first part has to deal with overall literacy rate and the gender gap in literacy rate. The reality is, the Planning Commission of the Indian government established a target for literacy and gender-gap in literacy. The targets were: 85% literacy by 2012, and no more than 10 percentage point gap between male and female literacy rate. This target was set when the 11th five year plan was developed, in mid 2000s. Against this target, we ended up with in the 2011 census with 74% overall literacy, and a gender gap of almost 17 percentage points. In other words, India is tracking towards serious underperformance against its own goals for 2012. I don't understand how you can call this "good" progress!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleventh_Five-Year_Plan_%28India%29#Eleventh_Five-Year_Plan.2C_2007.E2.80.932012

by artood2 Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:07 pm

charvaka wrote:R2D2, your theory was that India's literacy rate was showing "good" improvement, and that the illiterates that remain are older folks on whom it doesn't make sense to spend money to drive literacy. I will make two separate posts with numbers about this.

The first part has to deal with overall literacy rate and the gender gap in literacy rate. The reality is, the Planning Commission of the Indian government established a target for literacy and gender-gap in literacy. The targets were: 85% literacy by 2012, and no more than 10 percentage point gap between male and female literacy rate. This target was set when the 11th five year plan was developed, in mid 2000s. Against this target, we ended up with in the 2011 census with 74% overall literacy, and a gender gap of almost 17 percentage points. In other words, India is tracking towards serious underperformance against its own goals for 2012. I don't understand how you can call this "good" progress!

]

This plan is for youth literacy rate and not for overall literacy rates. This link *seems* to suggest that.

[url=http://www.nlm.nic.in/nlmgoals_nlm.htm]http://www.nlm.nic.in/nlmgoals_nlm.htm

this unicef link seems to reflect 88% for male and 74 % for female around 2008 but its definition is till 25 years while NLM's goal is for 35 years. this link shows a youth literacy rate of 82% in 2001

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_India#Comparative_literacy_statistics

Literacy is desirable for all age groups but it is very difficult to motivate older folks. Fnding should be available for older folks but pushing on the younger group would meet the goals of sustainability. I would say they should target 99% male and 95% female in youth group for the next 5 year plan. The discrpeancy between men and women's rate needs to reflect on the need of more social reforms to give women more power. Government should definitely fund real nari-mukti plans in rural (and also urban) areas. Again it is difficult to say what is needed on the funding levels unless recent data is available and if needed there is enough money to fund that.