Re: Telangana Telugu an offshoot of Dakhni?

by Guest Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:55 pm

Let us put an end to the Goebbels propaganda on Andhra language unity and the misuse of Ravi Narayan Reddy gari unblemished life history. Here is the real narration of Ravi Narayan Reddy's stand on this relentless Andhra Language Hegemony and Fanaticism.

Sri Bipin Chandra reports in his article "Remembering Ravi Narayana Reddy ", September 3, 2010, in The New Age Weekly, which is the central Organ of CPI, recalling from his interview of Ravi Narayan Reddy in July 1984. (http://www.newageweekly.com/2010/09/remembering-ravi-narayana-reddy-by.html)

"Comrade Ravi Narayan had fought his first major ideological battle in the (Andhra) Mahasabha. In 1935, the language fanatics ordained that nobody would be permitted to speak in the Andhra Mahasabha session except in Telugu, thus preventing the Marathi and Kannada speaking leaders from addressing the 4th and 5th conferences of the Mahasabha.

As he led a group of young people, Comrade Ravi Narayan decided to fight the language fanaticism and at the Nizamabad session of the Mahasabha in 1937, he inflicted crushing defeat on the fanatics. Leading the battle, he put forward an ingenious argument before the audience. Suppose, he said, Gandhiji came and wanted to address the conference would he be permitted to do so or would he be told that since he could not speak in Telugu he should go back."

Can anybody believe that this same Ravi Narayan Reddy would ever utter "Veera Telangana Naadi, Veru Telangana Nadi Kaadu"? No.

This same fanaticism of Telugu Language in the name of Andhra unity is in play here. This kind of language fanaticism is alien to the people of Telangana owing to its secular and liberal bent of mind as well as its historical associations with Marathi and Kannada speaking people in the erstwhile Hyderabad Deccan Dominion for well over five centuries.

This kind of Language hegemony and fanaticism is dangerous to the health and the integrity of the nation of India.

Subhash C. Reddy, Ph.D.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/karmayog-hyd/message/4564

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:57 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Language hegemony and fanaticism is dangerous to the health and the integrity of the nation of India.

i agree.

by Idéfix Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:01 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Language hegemony and fanaticism is dangerous to the health and the integrity of the nation of India.

i agree.

Me too. No better example of language fanaticism than Rashmun and his regular floggings of this dead horse.

by Guest Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:03 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Language hegemony and fanaticism is dangerous to the health and the integrity of the nation of India.

i agree.

in my opinion disowning Dakhini, the south indian variant of Hindustani, also amounts to language fanaticism.

by Guest Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:59 pm

A good article on Hyderabadi Dakhini. Towards the end of the article you will find words and phrases of Hyderabadi Dakhini. Notice that anyone with a knowledge of hindi will be able to comprehend Hyderabadi Dakhini. It is very similar to Hindustani.

------
http://www.hyderabadplanet.com/hyderabad-language.html

by Guest Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:55 am

Kya ba so ba. Ji. Ji. There. You mastered our language.

Smile

.

I’d like to enlighten all the ill-enlightened Bangaloreans that the urdu you think is the urdu we speak is not the urdu we speak. The urdu you speak thinking it’s the urdu we speak is the urdu I like to call the “autowala urdu”. When we respond to you the same way you speak to us (like confident tannery road goondas), it’s because we are indulging you and having a laugh at your expense. Not because that’s the way we really speak.

It’s not what you say. You have got the gist of it. You just don’t know how to construct your sentences. It’s actually the accent you speak in that’s really funny. For instance you will say “hamme jakko vahn tairya Ta”.

Sorry. It should be “Mai jaako vhan thairya tha.” That is if you are speaking middle grade.
Sophisticated grade would be “Mai jaako vhan khadko tha.”
Crass grade would be “Mai jaako vhan japleko tha.”

And what we speak is not even urdu as much as it is what is loosely called “Dakhni”. Yes, it’s a dialect spoken in “Deccan” India. Snigger if you want – but it has its own grades of sophistication, variations, intonations, and accents. Like the rest of the world, we will judge you on your usages, pronunciations, and sentence constructions. And when Dakhni speakers say something – most often you can place them immediately - based on all the parameters listed above. I can tell you if you are from Bidar, Cuttack, Chennai, Virajpet, Bangalore, Bangalore – Shivajinagar, Bangalore – Jaynagar, Bangalore – Kalasipalya, Bangalore – Cantonment, or Bangalore – confused identity. The way you can place a North Kannadiga by their Kannada? That way only.

If you are a hindi speaker – a good thumb rule to speaking dakhni is merging two words to make one. We are kinda lazy that way. So “Aa kar” becomes “Aako” “Aati hoon” becomes “Aatiyun” and “Ja raha hoon” becomes “Jaroon”

So now that you are sufficiently educated. Let’s get to the fun part! Don’t get so stuck with the so so and ba ba. I’ll teach you some really fun words. At the end of this, you will be able to learn a really fun sentence you can use on your dakhni-speaking friends.

PISSED WITH SOMEONE?

Masti – Masti for the dakhnis does not mean fun as it does in Hindi. It’s actually used to refer to someone with too much attitude. Equal to the Kannada “kobbu”. Use it like “unku khoob masti” for your seniors or “usey khoob masti” for your peers.
Maatimilla (male) Maatimilli (female) – Literally translated means the one who has merged with the mud/one who is worth rubbing his face in the mud.
Diwani Bala (female) – What your amma will call you when you piss her off. It translates to the mad woman who embodies an evil spirit.
Diwani Rand (female) – What your amma will call you when you piss her off beyond redemption. It translates to mad erm. Let’s keep it clean. You know what it means.
Khadmoot(male) – Literally translated it means 'the man who pees standing'. But it's an insulting word because in our community standing and peeing is considered uncultured and disgusting. So, a 'khadmoot' is an uncouth who indulges in his own pleasures.

WANT TO GET DESCRIPTIVE?

Kangi-choti-haa-hoo – Literally translates to “Comb-plait-ooh-aah”. But what it really means is that you got all dressed up for nothing.
Martingdi (female) Martingda (male) – Describes a very emaciated person
Potta (male) Potti (female) – A manner in which to refer to young people. It implies that they are prone to the unruly ways and attitudes and temptations of youth. It can be used both scornfully and playfully. And often used collectively as potta-pottiyan.
Diwane shah - Literally translated means 'The Mad Duke'. Often also used as "crack shah". So you might just want to call out to someone "Aji, O diwane shah, idhar aao".
Khadi – Means upright. Typically used to prefix laat which means kick.
Dum latka le ko – Doing something with your tail dangling. Often shortened to “Latka le ko”

WANT TO GET EMOTIVE?

Kheench ko – Describes the way you would cause harm to someone – slap, kick, etc. Alternatively you can use “Thaid kar ko”. But you have to say it with a lot of stress on the vowels. So phonetically it will sound “KHEEEEENCH ko” or “ThAAAIIIDDD karko”. Kheench ko actually translates to pull hard. So your sentence would go something like this “Kheench ko ek laat martiyun”. Which means that I am going to pull hard and give you one kick.
Chittad – Means Ass. Of the hindquarters kind. So ‘I am going to pull hard and kick his ass’ translates to “Mai use kheench ko chittad po ek laat martiyun”
Speaking of chittad. There is a fun something we say to ask someone to get lost in a very colourful way. “Bhains ki chittad, kheench ko kattar”. Translates to “Pull the buffalo’s ass hard and bite it”. There is a way of saying it. Imagine you are saying this to a jungle drumbeat. In the ta-ka-takara-takarataka hoo haa hoo haa rhythm.Bhains-ki-chittadkheench-ko-kattar. Bhains-ki-chittadkheench-ko-kattar.

SO THIS IS HOW YOU PUT IT IN A SENTENCE

If you are going to speak to a guy say:

“Kya re martingde maatimille. Khoob masti ki tujhe. Ab aako tere chittad po kheeeench ko ek khadi laat detun dekh. Phir pottiyan ke saka ‘kangi-choti-haa-hoo’ karko roleko baithinga”

Translates – What you emaciated mud mixer. You got too much attitude is it? Just wait and watch, I am going to come and pull hard, and give you one upright kick on your arse. Then you will sit like a young errant girl crying comb-plait-ha-hoo.

If you are targetting a girl say:

“Kya ge maatimilli. Woh khadmoot potte se baatan karleko ko thi so? Kheench ko ek khadi laat chittad pe maroongi. Ja ab bhains ki chittad, kheench ko kattar. Aur hamna bhi zari lako de.”

Translates – What you mud mixer, were you talking to that errant boy who pees standing? I am going to pull hard and give you one standing kick on your arse. Go, go pull the buffalo’s arse and chomp on it. And give us some too!”

If you are truly interested in Dakhni as a language check this out. And if you want to formulate more colourful sentences, you may contact me directly Smile

.

THE END.

http://www.zanyoutbursts.com/2011/04/kya-ba-so-ba-ji-ji-learning-to-speak.html

by Guest Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:57 am

the above article was, i thought, very informative but it has an error (which i snipped out). it says hyderabadi should be considered distinct from dakhini. this is not true. hyderabadi should be considered a special form of dakhini.

by Guest Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:59 am

In an article in Outlook magazine titled 'Quo Vadis, Hyderabad?', Bakhtiar Dadabhoy writes:

Whatever happens, the Dakhini in their souls will unite the people of this city.

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?263401

Dadabhoy, it is mentioned at the end of the article, is a civil servant whose family has lived in Hyderabad for over four generations. By Dakhini he is referring to the Dakhini language, whose variant Hyderabadi or Hyderabadi Dakhini, is the lingua franca of Hyderabad. By 'whatever happens' he is referring to the agitation for a separate Telangana state to be carved out of Andhra Pradesh (with Hyderabad as its capital), with some suggesting that the city be made a union territory if a division of the state indeed takes place.

by Guest Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:02 am

The point is that I never learned for the first five and a half years of my life, which were spent in Baroda. Ironically, I learned a language akin to Hindi when we moved to Bangalore, in the heart of South India. I learned the language, moreover, from drivers and watchmen. They all thought of us as North Indians and assumed that we knew Hindi. The language they taught me was intimate, sociable, warm, vital, quick, and expressive. “Tum ko Hindi nai aata, saam?” I remember being asked. I said, “Na. Sirf thoda thoda aata.” I told them I knew only Marathi and Gujarati. My first Hindi teachers said, “Koi baat nahin, hum sikhata.” And so my lessons started.

“Kab aye tum?”
“Phajar ko.”
“Kay hona tumna?”
“Kuch bhi nahin. Jao ji, humna chhod dalo.”
“Tum kidhar rehte?
“Idhar-ich. Isi colony mein. Tumna malum nahin?”

This is the sort of Hindi we spoke. You may call it Dakhni or Dakhni Urdu, but it’s spoken in large parts of Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, and even in Tamil Nadu. Again, there a local variations. Hyderabadi is a distinct and much more powerful form than Karnataki. The large Muslim, Rajput, and other North Indian populations in Bangalore and Mysore, especially those settled there for over 200 years, speak this language.

When we grew up, we were rather ashamed of it. We thought that only the “real” North Indians, those who lived in U.P or Delhi knew proper Hindi. Our language was something we rarely used in public. It was the patios spoken with subordinates who worked in the company. For several years, while I was growing up in Bangalore, I spoke this kind of Hindi. It was a language in which “mein” and “aap” were rarely used; its was only “hum” and “tum.” Many years later, a friend from Hyderabad told me that others, especially elders and betters, needed to be addressed as “aap.”

The verbs in this language were very graphic and vivid: dhakal dalo—push it away; bhirka do—fling it; chhod dalo—leave it; ghatt pakdo—hold it tightly; daud lo—run; and so on. “Ch” as an intensifier was added to everything we said: “Uttach—that’s all; wo ayach nahin—he didn’t come at all; bolech nahin—didn’t say at all; and so on. It was also a language full of swear words, besides the usual ma-bahen ki gaaliyan, which I won’t translate: chinnal ke; laude ke baal; gaandu; chutiya; etc.

“Unhe kidhar gaya so?”
“Kya ki, maloom nahin. Bole ke gaya nahin unhe. Sala, chinnal ka.”
“Wo sab humna sunna nahin. Tumech karna padenga.”
“Kaya saab, aisa bolte tum. Usiko aata na, humna kyon tum bejaar karte?”
“Aisa kya, ulte zaban ladate kya tume. Bahut kirkire tumhari sun liya. Ab bus ho gaya. Chup chaap aate ki nahin, bolo.”
“Achha saab, aate hum. Tum kya yaad karenge.”
I typical conversation would go like this. “So” would be liberally sprinkled all over. Aate so, jaate so, ky so, bolo so, and so on.

Later, when I lived in Hyderabad, the language came back to me, but it was not what I had learned as a child in the suburbs of Bangalore, from native speakers and users of Karnataki or Bangalori. Though the latter was the mother tongue of none of us, we all spoke it, whether we were Gujaratis, Maharashtrians, Telugus, Tamils, Kannadigas, Muslim, Hindu, Christian, North Indians, South Indians, officers or watchmen.

Mr. Seshadri gave this beautiful language some semblance of legitimacy in my eyes. Later, I realized that Hindi or Hindavi or Urdu or Dakhini had a great flowering in the South much before it reached it high level of sophistication in Delhi, Agra, and Lucknow. In was in the Deccan that this language found state patronage in the 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries. Golconda, Bijapur, Bidar, Gulbarga, the breakaway Sultanates of the Deccan and, later, Mysore under Hyder Ali and Tipu, patronized this language. The first ruler and founder of Hyderabad, Quli Qutub Shah, composed love lyrics in it. The language that I had learned from drivers, watchmen, and malis was, after all, a noble tongue.

http://www.makarand.com/acad/HindiHainHum.htm

by Guest Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:05 am

Rashmun wrote:Kya ba so ba. Ji. Ji. There. You mastered our language.

.

I’d like to enlighten all the ill-enlightened Bangaloreans that the urdu you think is the urdu we speak is not the urdu we speak. The urdu you speak thinking it’s the urdu we speak is the urdu I like to call the “autowala urdu”. When we respond to you the same way you speak to us (like confident tannery road goondas), it’s because we are indulging you and having a laugh at your expense. Not because that’s the way we really speak.

It’s not what you say. You have got the gist of it. You just don’t know how to construct your sentences. It’s actually the accent you speak in that’s really funny. For instance you will say “hamme jakko vahn tairya Ta”.

Sorry. It should be “Mai jaako vhan thairya tha.” That is if you are speaking middle grade.
Sophisticated grade would be “Mai jaako vhan khadko tha.”
Crass grade would be “Mai jaako vhan japleko tha.”

And what we speak is not even urdu as much as it is what is loosely called “Dakhni”. Yes, it’s a dialect spoken in “Deccan” India. Snigger if you want – but it has its own grades of sophistication, variations, intonations, and accents. Like the rest of the world, we will judge you on your usages, pronunciations, and sentence constructions. And when Dakhni speakers say something – most often you can place them immediately - based on all the parameters listed above. I can tell you if you are from Bidar, Cuttack, Chennai, Virajpet, Bangalore, Bangalore – Shivajinagar, Bangalore – Jaynagar, Bangalore – Kalasipalya, Bangalore – Cantonment, or Bangalore – confused identity. The way you can place a North Kannadiga by their Kannada? That way only.

If you are a hindi speaker – a good thumb rule to speaking dakhni is merging two words to make one. We are kinda lazy that way. So “Aa kar” becomes “Aako” “Aati hoon” becomes “Aatiyun” and “Ja raha hoon” becomes “Jaroon”

So now that you are sufficiently educated. Let’s get to the fun part! Don’t get so stuck with the so so and ba ba. I’ll teach you some really fun words. At the end of this, you will be able to learn a really fun sentence you can use on your dakhni-speaking friends.

PISSED WITH SOMEONE?

Masti – Masti for the dakhnis does not mean fun as it does in Hindi. It’s actually used to refer to someone with too much attitude. Equal to the Kannada “kobbu”. Use it like “unku khoob masti” for your seniors or “usey khoob masti” for your peers.
Maatimilla (male) Maatimilli (female) – Literally translated means the one who has merged with the mud/one who is worth rubbing his face in the mud.
Diwani Bala (female) – What your amma will call you when you piss her off. It translates to the mad woman who embodies an evil spirit.
Diwani Rand (female) – What your amma will call you when you piss her off beyond redemption. It translates to mad erm. Let’s keep it clean. You know what it means.
Khadmoot(male) – Literally translated it means 'the man who pees standing'. But it's an insulting word because in our community standing and peeing is considered uncultured and disgusting. So, a 'khadmoot' is an uncouth who indulges in his own pleasures.

WANT TO GET DESCRIPTIVE?

Kangi-choti-haa-hoo – Literally translates to “Comb-plait-ooh-aah”. But what it really means is that you got all dressed up for nothing.
Martingdi (female) Martingda (male) – Describes a very emaciated person
Potta (male) Potti (female) – A manner in which to refer to young people. It implies that they are prone to the unruly ways and attitudes and temptations of youth. It can be used both scornfully and playfully. And often used collectively as potta-pottiyan.
Diwane shah - Literally translated means 'The Mad Duke'. Often also used as "crack shah". So you might just want to call out to someone "Aji, O diwane shah, idhar aao".
Khadi – Means upright. Typically used to prefix laat which means kick.
Dum latka le ko – Doing something with your tail dangling. Often shortened to “Latka le ko”

WANT TO GET EMOTIVE?

Kheench ko – Describes the way you would cause harm to someone – slap, kick, etc. Alternatively you can use “Thaid kar ko”. But you have to say it with a lot of stress on the vowels. So phonetically it will sound “KHEEEEENCH ko” or “ThAAAIIIDDD karko”. Kheench ko actually translates to pull hard. So your sentence would go something like this “Kheench ko ek laat martiyun”. Which means that I am going to pull hard and give you one kick.
Chittad – Means Ass. Of the hindquarters kind. So ‘I am going to pull hard and kick his ass’ translates to “Mai use kheench ko chittad po ek laat martiyun”
Speaking of chittad. There is a fun something we say to ask someone to get lost in a very colourful way. “Bhains ki chittad, kheench ko kattar”. Translates to “Pull the buffalo’s ass hard and bite it”. There is a way of saying it. Imagine you are saying this to a jungle drumbeat. In the ta-ka-takara-takarataka hoo haa hoo haa rhythm.Bhains-ki-chittadkheench-ko-kattar. Bhains-ki-chittadkheench-ko-kattar.

SO THIS IS HOW YOU PUT IT IN A SENTENCE

If you are going to speak to a guy say:

“Kya re martingde maatimille. Khoob masti ki tujhe. Ab aako tere chittad po kheeeench ko ek khadi laat detun dekh. Phir pottiyan ke saka ‘kangi-choti-haa-hoo’ karko roleko baithinga”

Translates – What you emaciated mud mixer. You got too much attitude is it? Just wait and watch, I am going to come and pull hard, and give you one upright kick on your arse. Then you will sit like a young errant girl crying comb-plait-ha-hoo.

If you are targetting a girl say:

“Kya ge maatimilli. Woh khadmoot potte se baatan karleko ko thi so? Kheench ko ek khadi laat chittad pe maroongi. Ja ab bhains ki chittad, kheench ko kattar. Aur hamna bhi zari lako de.”

Translates – What you mud mixer, were you talking to that errant boy who pees standing? I am going to pull hard and give you one standing kick on your arse. Go, go pull the buffalo’s arse and chomp on it. And give us some too!”

If you are truly interested in Dakhni as a language check this out. And if you want to formulate more colourful sentences, you may contact me directly .

THE END.

http://www.zanyoutbursts.com/2011/04/kya-ba-so-ba-ji-ji-learning-to-speak.html

my stand that people should not ridicule the Dakhini language has been vindicated.

by Guest Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:34 am

HYDERABAD: The vicissitudes of years of existence of Deccani have indeed brought about a change in the nature of the language. Hindi and Urdu share a common ancestor in Deccani and are the same language written in different scripts. Hyderabad: Sitting comfortably amidst racks of books in Farsi, Urdu and English in almost every discipline of art, historian and consultant to Christie's in London, Ziauddin Ahmed Shakeb talks of the evolution of languages and the symbolism and nuances of Indo-Islamic art. A former professor of Urdu and the history of Indo-Islamic art and culture at the School of Oriental and African Studies, London, Shakeb describes India as the land of cultural euphony because of the confluence of the rich Indian and Persian cultures, and Deccani, as the first Indian language rich in secular literature.

"I realised quite early that India has a rich culture and that every sentence spoken here is indicative of an Indo-Islamic blend," says Shakeb. "Being a historian, the study of history necessitates the examination of art, cultures and religion. Therefore, it is only natural that my studies are of my own history, culture, language, and religion."

Shakeb, 75, says that Deccani was used as the language of mass literacy. "Deccani adopted the Persian script and introduced a number of Indian vowels and consonants to accommodate speakers of various languages. Sufis and the rulers of the Deccan, especially the Qutub Shahis, have made an invaluable contribution to the Deccani idiom. A collection of poems entitled Kulliyaat-e-Mohammed Quli Qutub Shah is Sultan Mohammed Quli Qutub Shah's testament to his patronage of the Deccani language. Deccani later reached the "There is no decadence of these languages at the spoken level, only an evolution. Urdu serves as the link language for immigrants from all over India and even Nepal. It is spoken by millions in Europe because of which it has been recognised as a modern European language at a par with French, German, Italian and Spanish." According to Shakeb, there is no limit of Persianising and Arabicising Urdu as there are no boundaries of Sanskritising Hindi. He maintains that the two languages are the same.

The Deccani style of painting too is a result of the merging of rich and distinct cultures. The palette mixes the characteristics of Islamic paintings with that of Hindu paintings; the product of which is a painting with a perfect sense of visual equilibrium. This style also combines the elements of action and movement. "Indo-Islamic paintings are found in the form of miniatures and illustrations for books," says Shakeb. "The Deccani style also combines the infinite depth of Islamic paintings which, more often than not, is exposed to an aerial view. The aerial view is symbolic of the concept of the infinite and the painter's awareness of cosmology. The presence of the grotesque instead of clouds is indicative of celestial spheres; all pointing towards the painter's belief in metaphysics and God." The art evaluator says that due to the absence of recession (the farther the object, the smaller its depiction in size) and the liberties it takes with geometry and proportion make it difficult to understand by many. However, the emphasis of these paintings is on cultural and natural details.

Just like there has been reconciliation in the world of art and imagery with religion and culture by the Deccan style of painting, language too has been going through such a process. "The speakers of Hindi and Urdu can be brought closer by reasonable and practical blending. Theatre and cinema have always been trying to create harmony between speakers of Hindi and Urdu and people of different cultures. These efforts mustn't stop," he says.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-01-20/hyderabad/30646825_1_deccani-language-paintings

by Guest Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:31 pm

Hyderabad has been the meeting place of many different cultures and traditions. It has over the years developed its own distinctive ‘Ganga-Jamuna’ culture. Hyderabad is a cosmopolitan city: people never identify themselves by their religion but only as Hyderabadis. Dussehra, Diwali or Sankranti are all meant to be enjoyed, whether one is Hindu or not. And Id brings celebrations not for a single community but for the entire city. Faith is a personal matter and what unites one is the sense of belonging to Hyderabad. (Old-timers say all this is a thing of the past, but I believe such pessimism is unwarranted).

Language is not a problem. The unique lingua franca, Dakhni, one of the most identifiable markers of Hyderabad, is a delicious blend of Hindi, Urdu and Telugu, with a lacing of old Marathi. The plural character of the city dates back to its founder, Quli Qutb Shah, who was also a Telugu scholar. Geographically too, it is inclusive: the twin cities, Hyderabad and Secunderabad, do not exhibit the cleavage in environment that divides, say, South Mumbai and the suburbs, or the Calcuttan whose life is confined south of Park Street. And now there is also Cyberabad, as the 400-year-old city constantly reinvents itself.

Never directly ruled by the British, the city’s pluralism owes to the Nizams, who encouraged Parsis, Kayasthas and Muslims to join the civil services.

Hyderabad is not only cosmopolitan but also a pan-Indian city. Since the city was never ruled directly by the British (there was a Resident stationed there), it owes its plural character not so much to the British but to the Nizams, who encouraged Parsis, Kayasthas and Maharashtrians to join the civil service. What is important is that the inclusive nature of the city blended all these communities into a harmonious whole, distinguished by the adoption, in their own manner, of what is known as the ‘Hyderabadi tehzeeb’—the traditional composite of civility, hospitality, courtesy and grace in social interaction, the hallmark of which is respect and consideration. The outsider in Hyderabad (though I believe that the city does not treat anyone as such) does not jar. A posting in Hyderabad invariably ends with it being the city of choice post-retirement, or at least the acquisition of some property. Those who stay on mould their tastes and even language to the habitat. There is no need or wish to retain separateness—all willingly and happily submit to the warm embrace of the composite and cosmopolitan culture of a city, where visitors as far back as 400 years were in no hurry to leave once they had arrived.
My family, both from the paternal and maternal side, has lived in Secunderabad for the last four generations. Both my paternal great-grandfather and my grandfather served in the railways. I recollect my late father recounting with great pride how his grandfather was an ‘officer’ who rode to the club in a dog-cart (a small two-wheeled buggy drawn by a single horse). I was born in Secunderabad, but my father’s peripatetic existence took us to all parts of the country. But wherever our peregrinations took us, Secunderabad was always home. This was where we belonged. As kids, my sister and I always looked forward to holidays with my maternal grandmother. I vividly remember climbing a large tamarind tree and also eating a little more imli than was good for me.

I recall an interesting anecdote about belonging to Secunderabad involving my father and Morarji Desai, the former chief minister of undivided Bombay, who later became prime minister. My father was a young superintendent of police posted in Kutch in the mid-’60s. He had arrested some Congress workers for disturbing the peace and Morarjibhai, who was visiting the district as a Congress leader, asked to see him. To his credit, the stern and austere Morarjibhai did not make the arrests an issue. He only asked what they had done and readily accepted my father’s version of their misdemeanours. But a grilling of a different kind was in store. Knowing my father was a Parsi, Morarjibhai asked him where he came from. “Mool vatni kyan na? (What is your hometown?),” he asked him, only to receive what must have seemed to him an astonishing answer: Secunderabad. “Can’t be,” he told my father bluntly. “You have to be from Surat, Navsari, Bombay or somewhere on the west coast.” After some very probing questions about our forbears, he finally bullied my father into agreeing that we were originally from Surat! Having conceded defeat, my father still managed to have the last word: “My forefathers might have lived in Surat, Sir, but I am from Secunderabad.”

“I am from Hyderabad.” That, for me, is the bottom line. Ultimately, it is not important whether Hyderabad goes to Telangana or to Andhra, or becomes a Union Territory or a joint capital. No doubt chauvinism, economics and politics will all play a role when that decision is taken. There are fears that ‘Brand Hyderabad’ will suffer. But let’s not sweat the small stuff. Our concern should be about the disappearance of the inclusive personality that Hyderabad fostered, reveling as it did in its multi-religious and multilingual diversity—a composite character which Nehru not only lauded but also hoped that the rest of India would emulate. To anything which seeks to destroy this syncretism we must say a polite ‘Nakko’, because ‘Hum logaan ko aisich rehna.’

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?263401

by T.Vijayendra Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:51 am

My name is T. Vijayendra. I joined this thread because I was intrigued by the title. Also I found that excerpts from my article on Dakhni were quote. I have a few comments to make.

The title is not correct. Telangana Telugu is an independent language. It belongs to the group which can be called Telugu. Dakhni is a separate language and it belongs a group that can be called 'Khari Boli'. The history of Dakhni has been traced in my article quoted and interested persons can access it fully.

No language is mother of any language. Thus Sanskrit is not mother of any Indian language. Languages are born in specific biogeographical/ecological regions. It is very clear when we see the Hindi group. We have Awadhi, Bhojpuri, Bundeli, Malwi, Nimari etc. each belonging to a specific region. Telangana Telugu is also a language of the specific region called Telangana. Dakhni is the link language of Deccan spread over several languages. it has borrowed words from them.

Languages borrow words from other languages regularly. That does not make them daughters/offshoots of those languages. Otherwise all Indian languages can become offshoots of English!

by Guest Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:04 am

T.Vijayendra wrote:My name is T. Vijayendra. I joined this thread because I was intrigued by the title. Also I found that excerpts from my article on Dakhni were quote. I have a few comments to make.

The title is not correct. Telangana Telugu is an independent language. It belongs to the group which can be called Telugu. Dakhni is a separate language and it belongs a group that can be called 'Khari Boli'. The history of Dakhni has been traced in my article quoted and interested persons can access it fully.

No language is mother of any language. Thus Sanskrit is not mother of any Indian language. Languages are born in specific biogeographical/ecological regions. It is very clear when we see the Hindi group. We have Awadhi, Bhojpuri, Bundeli, Malwi, Nimari etc. each belonging to a specific region. Telangana Telugu is also a language of the specific region called Telangana. Dakhni is the link language of Deccan spread over several languages. it has borrowed words from them.

Languages borrow words from other languages regularly. That does not make them daughters/offshoots of those languages. Otherwise all Indian languages can become offshoots of English!

thank you for participating in this thread, Mr Vijayendra. Please comment on the following:

Dakhni's syntactic template is common to its two subsequent
off-shoots: Telangana Telugu and Hyderabadi Urdu. Hyderabadi Urdu is different
from the Persianized Urdu of the North and its Telugu is different from
the Sanskritized Telugu of the South.

http://www.explohyd.com/hyderabad-specials/dialect.html[/quote]

i am not a scholar of dakhini or of Telangana Telugu. I was merely speculating based on what i read in the article whose extract i give. I would like to know from you the percentage of urdu (or hindustani) words used in Telangana Telugu. I have read internet articles referring to this language as Turdu (perhaps in jest) because of the large number of urdu words present in this language.

I would disagree with your statement: 'no language is mother of any language'. there is such a thing as phylogenetic tree of languages which depicts the evolutionary tree of a specific set of languages.

by Guest Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:15 am

Rashmun wrote:
T.Vijayendra wrote:My name is T. Vijayendra. I joined this thread because I was intrigued by the title. Also I found that excerpts from my article on Dakhni were quote. I have a few comments to make.

The title is not correct. Telangana Telugu is an independent language. It belongs to the group which can be called Telugu. Dakhni is a separate language and it belongs a group that can be called 'Khari Boli'. The history of Dakhni has been traced in my article quoted and interested persons can access it fully.

No language is mother of any language. Thus Sanskrit is not mother of any Indian language. Languages are born in specific biogeographical/ecological regions. It is very clear when we see the Hindi group. We have Awadhi, Bhojpuri, Bundeli, Malwi, Nimari etc. each belonging to a specific region. Telangana Telugu is also a language of the specific region called Telangana. Dakhni is the link language of Deccan spread over several languages. it has borrowed words from them.

Languages borrow words from other languages regularly. That does not make them daughters/offshoots of those languages. Otherwise all Indian languages can become offshoots of English!

thank you for participating in this thread, Mr Vijayendra. Please comment on the following:

Dakhni's syntactic template is common to its two subsequent
off-shoots: Telangana Telugu and Hyderabadi Urdu. Hyderabadi Urdu is different
from the Persianized Urdu of the North and its Telugu is different from
the Sanskritized Telugu of the South.

http://www.explohyd.com/hyderabad-specials/dialect.html

i am not a scholar of dakhini or of Telangana Telugu. I was merely speculating based on what i read in the article whose extract i give. I would like to know from you the percentage of urdu (or hindustani) words used in Telangana Telugu. I have read internet articles referring to this language as Turdu (perhaps in jest) because of the large number of urdu words present in this language.

I would disagree with your statement: 'no language is mother of any language'. there is such a thing as phylogenetic tree of languages which depicts the evolutionary tree of a specific set of languages.

Also, Mr Vijayendra please also comment on the prevalence of Dakhni not just in the Deccan but all across South India, including Tamil Nadu. Further, the following article will be of great interest to you:

http://sulekha.forumotion.com/t274-hindi-hain-hum-a-vibhashi-s-account-of-the-national-language#516

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:54 pm

Rashmun wrote:
It is just my daily routine

by Guest Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:06 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
It is just my daily routine

Samiyaar, i know it is your daily routine but perhaps we can discuss your daily routine in a different thread, what do you say?

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:16 pm

T.Vijayendra wrote:My name is T. Vijayendra. I joined this thread because I was intrigued by the title. Also I found that excerpts from my article on Dakhni were quote. I have a few comments to make.

The title is not correct. Telangana Telugu is an independent language. It belongs to the group which can be called Telugu. Dakhni is a separate language and it belongs a group that can be called 'Khari Boli'. The history of Dakhni has been traced in my article quoted and interested persons can access it fully.

No language is mother of any language. Thus Sanskrit is not mother of any Indian language. Languages are born in specific biogeographical/ecological regions. It is very clear when we see the Hindi group. We have Awadhi, Bhojpuri, Bundeli, Malwi, Nimari etc. each belonging to a specific region. Telangana Telugu is also a language of the specific region called Telangana. Dakhni is the link language of Deccan spread over several languages. it has borrowed words from them.

Languages borrow words from other languages regularly. That does not make them daughters/offshoots of those languages. Otherwise all Indian languages can become offshoots of English!

Are you suggesting that Rashmun doesn't know anything about Dakhni and Telangana Telugu?

On a separate note, when do you think the Telangana disturbance stop? How long should Hyderabad suffer?

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:18 pm

T.Vijayendra wrote:My name is T. Vijayendra. I joined this thread because I was intrigued by the title. Also I found that excerpts from my article on Dakhni were quote. I have a few comments to make.

The title is not correct. Telangana Telugu is an independent language. It belongs to the group which can be called Telugu. Dakhni is a separate language and it belongs a group that can be called 'Khari Boli'. The history of Dakhni has been traced in my article quoted and interested persons can access it fully.

No language is mother of any language. Thus Sanskrit is not mother of any Indian language. Languages are born in specific biogeographical/ecological regions. It is very clear when we see the Hindi group. We have Awadhi, Bhojpuri, Bundeli, Malwi, Nimari etc. each belonging to a specific region. Telangana Telugu is also a language of the specific region called Telangana. Dakhni is the link language of Deccan spread over several languages. it has borrowed words from them.

Languages borrow words from other languages regularly. That does not make them daughters/offshoots of those languages. Otherwise all Indian languages can become offshoots of English!

mr.vijendra -- this parallel thread may also be of interest to you.

by Guest Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:23 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
T.Vijayendra wrote:My name is T. Vijayendra. I joined this thread because I was intrigued by the title. Also I found that excerpts from my article on Dakhni were quote. I have a few comments to make.

The title is not correct. Telangana Telugu is an independent language. It belongs to the group which can be called Telugu. Dakhni is a separate language and it belongs a group that can be called 'Khari Boli'. The history of Dakhni has been traced in my article quoted and interested persons can access it fully.

No language is mother of any language. Thus Sanskrit is not mother of any Indian language. Languages are born in specific biogeographical/ecological regions. It is very clear when we see the Hindi group. We have Awadhi, Bhojpuri, Bundeli, Malwi, Nimari etc. each belonging to a specific region. Telangana Telugu is also a language of the specific region called Telangana. Dakhni is the link language of Deccan spread over several languages. it has borrowed words from them.

Languages borrow words from other languages regularly. That does not make them daughters/offshoots of those languages. Otherwise all Indian languages can become offshoots of English!

mr.vijendra -- this parallel thread may also be of interest to you.

mr vijendra, please ignore max. he is just being crude.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:26 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
T.Vijayendra wrote:My name is T. Vijayendra. I joined this thread because I was intrigued by the title. Also I found that excerpts from my article on Dakhni were quote. I have a few comments to make.

The title is not correct. Telangana Telugu is an independent language. It belongs to the group which can be called Telugu. Dakhni is a separate language and it belongs a group that can be called 'Khari Boli'. The history of Dakhni has been traced in my article quoted and interested persons can access it fully.

No language is mother of any language. Thus Sanskrit is not mother of any Indian language. Languages are born in specific biogeographical/ecological regions. It is very clear when we see the Hindi group. We have Awadhi, Bhojpuri, Bundeli, Malwi, Nimari etc. each belonging to a specific region. Telangana Telugu is also a language of the specific region called Telangana. Dakhni is the link language of Deccan spread over several languages. it has borrowed words from them.

Languages borrow words from other languages regularly. That does not make them daughters/offshoots of those languages. Otherwise all Indian languages can become offshoots of English!

mr.vijendra -- this parallel thread may also be of interest to you.

mr vijendra, please ignore max. he is just being crude.

i take objection to this uncalled for characterization of my serious linguistic research motivated by my noble intentions of developing good relationships with the chinese by showing how our "rastra basha" evolved from mandarin.

by Guest Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:26 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
T.Vijayendra wrote:My name is T. Vijayendra. I joined this thread because I was intrigued by the title. Also I found that excerpts from my article on Dakhni were quote. I have a few comments to make.

The title is not correct. Telangana Telugu is an independent language. It belongs to the group which can be called Telugu. Dakhni is a separate language and it belongs a group that can be called 'Khari Boli'. The history of Dakhni has been traced in my article quoted and interested persons can access it fully.

No language is mother of any language. Thus Sanskrit is not mother of any Indian language. Languages are born in specific biogeographical/ecological regions. It is very clear when we see the Hindi group. We have Awadhi, Bhojpuri, Bundeli, Malwi, Nimari etc. each belonging to a specific region. Telangana Telugu is also a language of the specific region called Telangana. Dakhni is the link language of Deccan spread over several languages. it has borrowed words from them.

Languages borrow words from other languages regularly. That does not make them daughters/offshoots of those languages. Otherwise all Indian languages can become offshoots of English!

mr.vijendra -- this parallel thread may also be of interest to you.

mr vijendra, please ignore max. he is just being crude.

i take objection to this uncalled for characterization of my serious linguistic research motivated by my noble intentions of developing good relationships with the chinese by showing how our "rastra basha" evolved from mandarin.

first learn about dakhini before jumping to mandarin.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:29 pm

Rashmun wrote:

first learn about dakhini before jumping to mandarin.

why do you think i am exploring khari boli's connections to mandarin?

mandarin --> khari bholi --> dakhini --> telengana telugu. get it?

by Guest Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:33 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

first learn about dakhini before jumping to mandarin.

why do you think i am exploring khari boli's connections to mandarin?

mandarin --> khari bholi --> dakhini --> telengana telugu. get it?

khari boli is only a variant of dakhini. furthermore, dakhini predates khari boli as per Mr T. Vijendra's scholarly article. u need to get your basics clear before jumping to mandarin.

by T.Vijayendra Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:37 pm

I think the word Hyderabadi Urdu is inaccurate. It assumes a Urdu parentage and is Northcentric. I prefer Telangana Dakhni. It is part of Dakhni family. As I wrote in my article (Dakhni: the Language in which the Composite Culture of India was born), Dakhni has a older literary history starting with Khwaza Bande Nawz Gesu Daraz (1332-1437) of Gulbarga whereas Urdu literary tradition begins in the 18th century inspired by Wali Dakhni (1667-1731 or 1743).

Telangana Telugu and Telangana Dakhni are two separate languages. Both have borrowed words from each other and a majority of Telangana people are bilingual in the two languages. Up to a third of vocabulary is common.

Dakhni is spread all over South India, it is the lingua franca of Deccan and of all Muslims through out South India. For Kerala and Tamil Nadu, as a thumb rule just double the population of Muslims in those states and you would get an estimate of Dakhni speakers. All Dakhni speakers are bilingual with the local language.

As to the so called mother language, refer to my article 'Sanskrit and Indian language families'. You can get it at several places on the net or on my blog: t-vijayendra.blogspot com

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:47 pm

T.Vijayendra wrote:All Dakhni speakers are bilingual with the local language.

mr.vijendra -- i'd like you to clarify what you said. lots of indians muslims or not are multilingual, not just bilingual. the question i have for you is whether TN and kerala muslims use dakhini to converse with each other at home. do they tell stories to their children, make love, and pen their most intimate thoughts into poetry in dakhini?

by T.Vijayendra Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:57 pm

My accurate name is Vijayendra.

As to your question, my answer is yes although I must confess I do not have extensive knowledge of these communities. My basis is that Muslims in Mangalore, which is just North of Kerala do use a variant of Dakhni at home and for all the activities you mention. Very often bilingual people use a mixed vocabulary.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:05 pm

T.Vijayendra wrote:My accurate name is Vijayendra.

As to your question, my answer is yes although I must confess I do not have extensive knowledge of these communities. My basis is that Muslims in Mangalore, which is just North of Kerala do use a variant of Dakhni at home and for all the activities you mention. Very often bilingual people use a mixed vocabulary.

i apologize for using your name incorrectly. i can tell you from anecdotal personal experience that tamil muslims use tamil at home. as for kerala muslims, here is a wedding song from the kerala moppilla muslim community:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SepNry6tqiY

aside: i'd imagine a wedding song is one of the most traditional cultural artifacts of any community.

here is also a wiki link you might find interesting about the poet umaruppulavar who in the 17th century composed an epic in tamil about the life of the prophet muhammad in a meter that emulates the kambaramayanam:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umaru_Pulavar

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:09 pm

an article of interest by prof sanjay subrahmanym (not the carnatic singer) of UCLA on how kerala and tamil muslims are moored to their local languages and customs.

http://www.international.ucla.edu/southasia/article.asp?parentid=27779

by T.Vijayendra Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:14 pm

Mr. Rashmun, I read both the references. The first one is a popular piece and has lot of inaccuracies - they don't matter in a popular piece, but it would be incorrect to take them as scientific.

The second was quite informative and good. But there was not anything new in it for me.

You are from Gulbarga. Gulbarga had a great Dakhni scholar - Sriram Sharma. If you can read Hindi, all his works are worth reading on this subject.

by T.Vijayendra Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:26 pm

MaxEntropy_Man,

I think both of us are partially correct. Learned men in any culture do use 'foreign' language, just as many Indians use English. A Kerala king used Braj Bhasha to compose a Krishna Kavya. Both Sanskrit and Persian have been used by learned people in India to compose serious works. On the other hand many ordinary people use local language and Dakhni. But yes, Deccan is the middle country and Dakhni is far more used in Deccan than in in deep South. But I have heard Dakhni in Mysore, Bangalore, Chennai, Madurai and in Trivandrum as well as in North Kerala.

Do you actually believe in maximising entropy? I have written an article -'Negative Entropy and Sustainability'.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:36 pm

i don't believe in maximizing entropy. i don't know what "belief" in a scientific principle means. i am merely saying it is the way of nature. i'd like to read your article. the argument that is advanced against entropy maximization as the law of nature are highly organized biological systems. erwin schrodinger in an elegantly argued essay titled, "what is life?" put that one to rest many years ago which you might find interesting -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_Life%3F

the crux of his reasoning is that it is possible for the entropy to decrease locally in parts of an isolated system, but the laws of thermodynamics dictate that this necessarily occurs at the cost of increasing the entropy in other parts of the system. so local decreases in entropy cannot be taken as proof of violation of the entropy maximization principle. my opinion is that this argument is essentially correct.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:42 pm

T.Vijayendra wrote:MaxEntropy_Man,

I think both of us are partially correct. Learned men in any culture do use 'foreign' language, just as many Indians use English. A Kerala king used Braj Bhasha to compose a Krishna Kavya. Both Sanskrit and Persian have been used by learned people in India to compose serious works. On the other hand many ordinary people use local language and Dakhni. But yes, Deccan is the middle country and Dakhni is far more used in Deccan than in in deep South. But I have heard Dakhni in Mysore, Bangalore, Chennai, Madurai and in Trivandrum as well as in North Kerala.

Do you actually believe in maximising entropy? I have written an article -'Negative Entropy and Sustainability'.

Is this you - Saar?

by Guest Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:31 pm

T.Vijayendra wrote:I think the word Hyderabadi Urdu is inaccurate. It assumes a Urdu parentage and is Northcentric. I prefer Telangana Dakhni. It is part of Dakhni family. As I wrote in my article (Dakhni: the Language in which the Composite Culture of India was born), Dakhni has a older literary history starting with Khwaza Bande Nawz Gesu Daraz (1332-1437) of Gulbarga whereas Urdu literary tradition begins in the 18th century inspired by Wali Dakhni (1667-1731 or 1743).

Telangana Telugu and Telangana Dakhni are two separate languages. Both have borrowed words from each other and a majority of Telangana people are bilingual in the two languages. Up to a third of vocabulary is common.

Dakhni is spread all over South India, it is the lingua franca of Deccan and of all Muslims through out South India. For Kerala and Tamil Nadu, as a thumb rule just double the population of Muslims in those states and you would get an estimate of Dakhni speakers. All Dakhni speakers are bilingual with the local language.

As to the so called mother language, refer to my article 'Sanskrit and Indian language families'. You can get it at several places on the net or on my blog: t-vijayendra.blogspot com

in my opinion, what you are saying in your post is now nonsense. Gesu Daraz for instance had immigrated to Gulbarga after having lived the first 60 years of his life in Delhi.

I question the fact that you are the T. Vijayendra who wrote the Dakhini article.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:40 pm

T.Vijayendra wrote:MaxEntropy_Man,

I think both of us are partially correct. Learned men in any culture do use 'foreign' language, just as many Indians use English. A Kerala king used Braj Bhasha to compose a Krishna Kavya. Both Sanskrit and Persian have been used by learned people in India to compose serious works. On the other hand many ordinary people use local language and Dakhni. But yes, Deccan is the middle country and Dakhni is far more used in Deccan than in in deep South. But I have heard Dakhni in Mysore, Bangalore, Chennai, Madurai and in Trivandrum as well as in North Kerala.

Do you actually believe in maximising entropy? I have written an article -'Negative Entropy and Sustainability'.

Welcome to this forum. For your information, the person who started this forum was from Hyderabad. He was "trained" in IIT Kharagpur and Berkley, USA. Please stick around and contribute your thoughts.

by T.Vijayendra Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:29 am

For MaxEntropy_Man

I think we should not discuss entropy under this thread. Yes I am aware of most of the things you said and they are covered in my article. You can access it in my blog or on the net.

For Rashmun

I am surprised and saddened by your comment and questioning if I am the T. Vijayendra who wrote the article. My impression has been that you are a sophisticated Urdu author and are from Gulbarga etc. With questions like that I don't think I can continue on this thread.

For Vakavaka Pakapaka,

Glad to know. I am from IIT Kharagpur, 1966. But with Rashmun's comment I am not sure I want to continue. I had a lot of respect for him for his knowledge of Dakhni. In fact now I am doubting if he wrote that comment. It is so uncharacteristic and unnecessarily hurtful.

by Guest Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:41 am

Huzefa, is that you?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:30 am

T.Vijayendra wrote:
For Rashmun

I am surprised and saddened by your comment and questioning if I am the T. Vijayendra who wrote the article. My impression has been that you are a sophisticated Urdu author and are from Gulbarga etc. With questions like that I don't think I can continue on this thread.

For Vakavaka Pakapaka,

Glad to know. I am from IIT Kharagpur, 1966. But with Rashmun's comment I am not sure I want to continue. I had a lot of respect for him for his knowledge of Dakhni. In fact now I am doubting if he wrote that comment. It is so uncharacteristic and unnecessarily hurtful.

hahaha... I am surprised that you lasted this long with him.

You are right. have no doubt. He never writes anything of his own.

by T.Vijayendra Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:36 am

Dear Mr. Rashmun,

I still find it difficult to believe that your wrote that, that is, what I write in this thread is nonsense and that I am not the T. Vijayendra, the author of the article on Dakhni. I have so much respect for you because of all that I read earlier in this thread on Dakhni from you.

Still I would like to reply. You should spell out what you find nonsense, what you don't agree with etc. so that one can reply.

Now I will tell you the background of the article. Yes I am that T. Vijayendra. I was born in Mysore in 1943 but till 1990 I lived mainly in the North. My parents are Kannadigas. In 1990 I came to live in Bidar for 5 years. That completely changed my ideas of North and South. I also got a feel of Dakhni and used the local libraries. When I left Bidar, I left my furniture with the local Urdu library and books to various organizations.

I am an engineer and not a linguist. But I did have a couple of courses in sociolinguistic (language hybridization and adult learning of a foreign language) at JNU in Delhi and I am in touch with a few linguists. In fact a journal in linguistics from Delhi University asked m to contribute on the basis of my article on Dakhni. So I am sort of self taught in linguistics. I have written few other articles related to linguistics.

My knowledge of Urdu and Dakhni is limited and I would not have thought of writing such an article. But in talking to some friends I found that even educated South Indians are ignorant of Dakhni or importance of medieval Deccan in history. So I wrote it for them. As a rule I write for my friends, because I am not good at arguing. May be that is why my inputs in the thread are weak. I put in a lot of efforts in writing it and it took nearly year to check and recheck all the details. I suppose that T. Vijayendra is different and you are after all right!

The article received quite a lot of notice, mainly because there is not much good material on Dakhni in English. Of course in Indian languages there is a lot of good material and all my sources are from Indian languages. In passing thanks to your efforts the Wiki article on Dakhni has improved but still it is weak and we should collaborate and improve it.

Some 'on line' Muslim journals reproduced the article adding their own emphasis and a few scholars wrote to me. Some fro Kerala asked me about Dakhni in Kerala etc. I feel a lot of things should be written on Dakhni but probably many good scholars do not have good access to English or do not find it important to write in English.

Vijayendra

by Idéfix Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:17 am

Welcome to SuCH, Mr. Vijayendra. I am glad you are posting your views here. Please do not take every poster here (including me) too seriously. This place can sometimes be a zoo. BTW, I posted as charvaka earlier in this thread.

by Idéfix Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:18 am

Hmm, I thought I saw RH here after a long time. Now I can't find his post!

by Guest Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:54 am

Rashmun wrote:Huzefa, is that you?

no.

welcome to such t. vijayendra.

as evident in my signature, i am taking a break from posting and not just in this id but in any id.

by Guest Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:48 am

why don't you call him on phone or sms if confused? you have his number! why insult a respected contributor on a baseless suspicion?

by Guest Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:25 am

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Huzefa, is that you?
no.

welcome to such t. vijayendra.

as evident in my signature, i am taking a break from posting and not just in this id but in any id.

thanks for the clarification.

by Idéfix Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:34 am

T.Vijayendra wrote:The title is not correct. Telangana Telugu is an independent language. It belongs to the group which can be called Telugu. Dakhni is a separate language and it belongs a group that can be called 'Khari Boli'.

I completely agree.

T.Vijayendra wrote:No language is mother of any language. Thus Sanskrit is not mother of any Indian language. Languages are born in specific biogeographical/ecological regions. It is very clear when we see the Hindi group. We have Awadhi, Bhojpuri, Bundeli, Malwi, Nimari etc. each belonging to a specific region. Telangana Telugu is also a language of the specific region called Telangana.

Again, I completely agree.

T.Vijayendra wrote:Dakhni is the link language of Deccan spread over several languages. it has borrowed words from them.

Dakhni is certainly spoken in a wider area within southern India than any of the four major southern languages. But I am not sure if that makes it a "link" language. Dakhni certainly acted as a link language within the multilingual pre-independence Hyderabad state, and even today in those regions it is widely understood. But I don't think it plays the same role in other parts of southern India.

T.Vijayendra wrote:Languages borrow words from other languages regularly. That does not make them daughters/offshoots of those languages. Otherwise all Indian languages can become offshoots of English!

Haha, true.

by Idéfix Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:40 am

T.Vijayendra wrote:I think the word Hyderabadi Urdu is inaccurate. It assumes a Urdu parentage and is Northcentric. I prefer Telangana Dakhni. It is part of Dakhni family. As I wrote in my article (Dakhni: the Language in which the Composite Culture of India was born), Dakhni has a older literary history starting with Khwaza Bande Nawz Gesu Daraz (1332-1437) of Gulbarga whereas Urdu literary tradition begins in the 18th century inspired by Wali Dakhni (1667-1731 or 1743).

This reminds me of what I was told by one of my high school teachers. I am going to read your article now. Thanks for posting it.

by Guest Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:41 am

A phylogenetic tree depicting the possible evolution of various Indo-European languages. As may be seen in the tree, Dakhini is a direct descendant of Urdu if this tree is accurate.

Telangana Telugu an offshoot of Dakhni? - Page 10 IndoEuropeanTree

Telangana Telugu an offshoot of Dakhni? - Page 10 IndoEuropeanTree

by Guest Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:49 am

Dakhini (or Dakhini urdu or Dakhini hindi) as a link language:

I may relate a personal experience. I was traveling in a taxi from Hyderabad in Andhra Pradesh to Gulbarga in Karnataka where I had to attend a function. The taxi driver was a Telugu speaking person while the Professor of Gulbarga University who came to fetch me was a Kannada speaking gentleman, but they spoke to each other in Hindi. I was surprised, since both these persons were South Indians, and I asked them why they were speaking in Hindi. They said that that was because Hindi was the link language for them both.

http://kgfindia.com/jamia-speech-on-urdu.php

by Idéfix Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:55 am

T.Vijayendra wrote:For Rashmun

I am surprised and saddened by your comment and questioning if I am the T. Vijayendra who wrote the article. My impression has been that you are a sophisticated Urdu author and are from Gulbarga etc. With questions like that I don't think I can continue on this thread.

T.Vijayendra wrote:But with Rashmun's comment I am not sure I want to continue

Rashmun has no interest in languages per se, and he has not shown an interest in learning them. He is motivated by a political agenda and he selectively misinterprets articles on the internet to push his petty agenda. He was happy quoting your article as long as it suited that agenda. There is no evidence at all from his many years of participation in this community that he knows much Urdu -- far from being an Urdu author. But now that it is clear that you disagree with his views, he will try to question your authenticity. Please do not let that affect your participation here. We have a few people here who are interested in Indian languages, and we can certainly benefit from your knowledge and perspective.

T.Vijayendra wrote:I am from IIT Kharagpur, 1966.

Please ignore my question if you are uncomfortable revealing this in public... but which hall were you in? I am class of 1998, was in Patel.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:58 am

Rashmun wrote:Dakhini (or Dakhini urdu or Dakhini hindi) as a link language:

I may relate a personal experience. I was traveling in a taxi from Hyderabad in Andhra Pradesh to Gulbarga in Karnataka where I had to attend a function. The taxi driver was a Telugu speaking person while the Professor of Gulbarga University who came to fetch me was a Kannada speaking gentleman, but they spoke to each other in Hindi. I was surprised, since both these persons were South Indians, and I asked them why they were speaking in Hindi. They said that that was because Hindi was the link language for them both.

http://kgfindia.com/jamia-speech-on-urdu.php

Ahhh..there....The great Rashmun evidence of "I was traveling in a Taxi and met ONE man..."

...all for the agenda of pushing HINDI ...HINDI...HINDI....all else - including Dhakini/Dakshayini - are only tools and strategies.

Get a life dude.

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