Re: A visit to the tamil restaurant does the trick

by Guest Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:56 am

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:a few etymological notes:

the word pongal is a tamil word. it comes from the root word pongu -- to boil and cause overflow. poetically it can also so refer to a swollen river in flow, as in pongum kavEri. indeed this is how pongal (the festival) is celebrated in villages all over TN. one boils a pot of milk first before doing anything else, everyone stands around the boiling and overflowing pot, and shouts pongalO pongal to celebrate the bounty of the harvest.

the tamil words veNN (adjective) and veNmai (abstract noun) mean white(ness). thus the veNN in veNN pongal refers to its color.

kAram in tamil also means like kArA in kannada, spicy. to my knowledge it has nothing whatsoever to do with pluckini. it is probably of proto-dravidian origin.

Khara means salty in Hindustani but I believe it can also mean spicy in Hindustani (not hot-spicy, but spicy-spicy). Also, sweet pongal is called sakkarai pongal by Tamils. Now, shakkar is a Hindustani word. The word shakkar seems to have been borrowed from Hindustani and incorporated into the tamil language.

Incidentally, shakkar is a persian word which was incorporated within it by Hindustani. There is a synonym for it in Hindustani--Cheeni.

by Petrichor Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:54 am

Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:a few etymological notes:

the word pongal is a tamil word. it comes from the root word pongu -- to boil and cause overflow. poetically it can also so refer to a swollen river in flow, as in pongum kavEri. indeed this is how pongal (the festival) is celebrated in villages all over TN. one boils a pot of milk first before doing anything else, everyone stands around the boiling and overflowing pot, and shouts pongalO pongal to celebrate the bounty of the harvest.

the tamil words veNN (adjective) and veNmai (abstract noun) mean white(ness). thus the veNN in veNN pongal refers to its color.

kAram in tamil also means like kArA in kannada, spicy. to my knowledge it has nothing whatsoever to do with pluckini. it is probably of proto-dravidian origin.

Khara means salty in Hindustani but I believe it can also mean spicy in Hindustani (not hot-spicy, but spicy-spicy). Also, sweet pongal is called sakkarai pongal by Tamils. Now, shakkar is a Hindustani word. The word shakkar seems to have been borrowed from Hindustani and incorporated into the tamil language.

Incidentally, shakkar is a persian word which was incorporated within it by Hindustani. There is a synonym for it in Hindustani--Cheeni.

The Tamil word for 'sakkara pongal' is "akkAravadisal".

by Guest Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:57 am

Muezzin-Bar'chu wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:a few etymological notes:

the word pongal is a tamil word. it comes from the root word pongu -- to boil and cause overflow. poetically it can also so refer to a swollen river in flow, as in pongum kavEri. indeed this is how pongal (the festival) is celebrated in villages all over TN. one boils a pot of milk first before doing anything else, everyone stands around the boiling and overflowing pot, and shouts pongalO pongal to celebrate the bounty of the harvest.

the tamil words veNN (adjective) and veNmai (abstract noun) mean white(ness). thus the veNN in veNN pongal refers to its color.

kAram in tamil also means like kArA in kannada, spicy. to my knowledge it has nothing whatsoever to do with pluckini. it is probably of proto-dravidian origin.

Khara means salty in Hindustani but I believe it can also mean spicy in Hindustani (not hot-spicy, but spicy-spicy). Also, sweet pongal is called sakkarai pongal by Tamils. Now, shakkar is a Hindustani word. The word shakkar seems to have been borrowed from Hindustani and incorporated into the tamil language.

Incidentally, shakkar is a persian word which was incorporated within it by Hindustani. There is a synonym for it in Hindustani--Cheeni.

The Tamil word for 'sakkara pongal' is "akkAravadisal".

Incorrect. The tamil word is sakkarai pongal or chakkarai pongal. Tamil has borrowed and incorporated the word shakkar into its vocabulary.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:58 am

Muezzin-Bar'chu wrote:
The Tamil word for 'sakkara pongal' is "akkAravadisal".

https://such.forumotion.com/t5991-taste-of-chennai#47543

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:01 am

the best versions of chakkarai pongals, the to-die-for versions, are always from the pErumAL kOvils (vaishnavite temples) in TN. iyengars make chakkarai pongal runnier and call it akkArai vadisal. iyengar food words are very literary and preserved from ancient tamil. it is likely that they are also the original names of the dishes.

by Guest Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:01 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Muezzin-Bar'chu wrote:
The Tamil word for 'sakkara pongal' is "akkAravadisal".

https://such.forumotion.com/t5991-taste-of-chennai#47543

In which Max explains that akkarai vadisal is not the same as sakkarai pongal:

https://such.forumotion.com/t5991-taste-of-chennai#47545

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:02 am

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Muezzin-Bar'chu wrote:
The Tamil word for 'sakkara pongal' is "akkAravadisal".

https://such.forumotion.com/t5991-taste-of-chennai#47543

In which Max explains that akkarai vadisal is not the same as sakkarai pongal:

https://such.forumotion.com/t5991-taste-of-chennai#47545

but very very close, just a bit runnier. it is very likely that the dish that evolved into chakkarai pongal came from akkArai vadisal.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:04 am

and rashmun -- your in-laws will give you the stick if you go calling their akkArai vadisal, chakkarai pongal. you will also be disowned and left out of the will.

by Guest Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:05 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the best versions of chakkarai pongals, the to-die-for versions, are always from the pErumAL kOvils (vaishnavite temples) in TN. iyengars make chakkarai pongal runnier and call it akkArai vadisal. iyengar food words are very literary and preserved from ancient tamil. it is likely that they are also the original names of the dishes.

I have eaten the namkeen pongal at the local tamil temple a few times. It is a lot cheaper to eat it in the temple than in the restaurant which I go to now but the temple pongal is not as good.For instance there is no uncrushed black pepper in the temple pongal. After some observation and investigation I figured out why the temple pongal is not as good. The cooks in the tamil temple are punjabis.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:07 am

Rashmun wrote:The cooks in the tamil temple are punjabis.

no wonder they call whatever glop they made for you namkeen pongal. anyone who calls it namkeen pongal is incapable of reproducing the canonical version.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:13 am

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the best versions of chakkarai pongals, the to-die-for versions, are always from the pErumAL kOvils (vaishnavite temples) in TN. iyengars make chakkarai pongal runnier and call it akkArai vadisal. iyengar food words are very literary and preserved from ancient tamil. it is likely that they are also the original names of the dishes.

I have eaten the namkeen pongal at the local tamil temple a few times. It is a lot cheaper to eat it in the temple than in the restaurant which I go to now but the temple pongal is not as good.For instance there is no uncrushed black pepper in the temple pongal. After some observation and investigation I figured out why the temple pongal is not as good. The cooks in the tamil temple are punjabis.

btw, temple food in TN, especially vaishnavite temples, is very different from the glop dished out at US hindu temples. don't go comparing degas or a monet to thomas kinkade (art by the kilo).

by Guest Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:55 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the best versions of chakkarai pongals, the to-die-for versions, are always from the pErumAL kOvils (vaishnavite temples) in TN. iyengars make chakkarai pongal runnier and call it akkArai vadisal. iyengar food words are very literary and preserved from ancient tamil. it is likely that they are also the original names of the dishes.

I have eaten the namkeen pongal at the local tamil temple a few times. It is a lot cheaper to eat it in the temple than in the restaurant which I go to now but the temple pongal is not as good.For instance there is no uncrushed black pepper in the temple pongal. After some observation and investigation I figured out why the temple pongal is not as good. The cooks in the tamil temple are punjabis.

btw, temple food in TN, especially vaishnavite temples, is very different from the glop dished out at US hindu temples. don't go comparing degas or a monet to thomas kinkade (art by the kilo).

Max please share with me (and others interested) the names of TN temples which are famous for their temple food.

by Guest Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:41 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Muezzin-Bar'chu wrote:
The Tamil word for 'sakkara pongal' is "akkAravadisal".

https://such.forumotion.com/t5991-taste-of-chennai#47543

In which Max explains that akkarai vadisal is not the same as sakkarai pongal:

https://such.forumotion.com/t5991-taste-of-chennai#47545

but very very close, just a bit runnier. it is very likely that the dish that evolved into chakkarai pongal came from akkArai vadisal.

Do you know if the Nawabs of Arcot had any influence on tamil cuisine? I know that several biryanis of TN were first developed in the kitchens of the Nawabs.

by MaxEntropy_Man Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:32 am

any perumAL kOvil is bound to have excellent food. in chennai, the triplicane parthasArathy temple, in thiruchi, the srirangam temple. even temples in little towns like my mother's native place, a small village near thirunelveli have great prasAdam.

i have no clue about the influence of the arcot nawabs on tamil cuisine. i have to confess i know very little about tamil cuisine outside the usual tambrahm fare, which i know thoroughly, and maybe a bit of chettinAd vegetarian cuisine. i have also had some excellent semia payasam made by a tamil muslim family. i am sure there is a slew of delicacies native to the mudaliars, the chettiars, the goundars and so on that i know nothing about. yes, before anyone gets their panties in a twist, i do believe caste has individualized cuisines at least in TN.

by FluteHolder Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:12 am

I still remember the hot 'Ven Pongal' given in dhonnai (dried leaf based bowl) in a Vinayakar temple in 'Sri Vaikundam.' We 3 bros/dad used to go to this temple after taking a dip at near by Thamirabarani most mornings. I am planning to visit these old places if I get a chance during my upcoming trip back home.

by garam_kuta Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:18 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the best versions of chakkarai pongals, the to-die-for versions, are always from the pErumAL kOvils (vaishnavite temples) in TN. iyengars make chakkarai pongal runnier and call it akkArai vadisal. iyengar food words are very literary and preserved from ancient tamil. it is likely that they are also the original names of the dishes.

shimmering mounds of akkAra vadisal ...yum yum ..the Andal temple prasadam, srivilliputtur - the temple, its environment so divine pleasing all the senses - haven't been there in long time though!

by Petrichor Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:24 am

Nowadays, those are the temples where kazhaga vaarisus sit around on a huge carpet with the hundi collections spread on the floor before them, as they go, 30% for the Party, 30% to HRC&E and the rest for the temple upkeep. The odd NRI family visits at odd hours and tries to capture 21 megapixel images for an uncertain posterity.

by Petrichor Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:25 am

akkAravadisal left for sometime naturally becomes sakkarapongal, the 'unrunny' version.

by garam_kuta Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:36 am

Muezzin-Bar'chu wrote:Nowadays, those are the temples where kazhaga vaarisus sit around on a huge carpet with the hundi collections spread on the floor before them, as they go, 30% for the Party, 30% to HRC&E and the rest for the temple upkeep. The odd NRI family visits at odd hours and tries to capture 21 megapixel images for an uncertain posterity.

totally agree... so deromanticizing... however, the image frequently is able to bring an almost total recall with the emotions intact, although it struggles with the static noise generated due to aging and the consequent critique and cynicism that come as baggage

by Guest Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:41 am

FluteHolder wrote:I still remember the hot 'Ven Pongal' given in dhonnai (dried leaf based bowl) in a Vinayakar temple in 'Sri Vaikundam.' We 3 bros/dad used to go to this temple after taking a dip at near by Thamirabarani most mornings. I am planning to visit these old places if I get a chance during my upcoming trip back home.

What a beautiful memory. Please consider writing some longer autobiographical posts about your two brothers and dad.

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