Re: malaysian airlines flight

by pravalika nanda Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:27 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:one of the big downsides of shutting off the cockpit door from the rest of the plane is a scenario in which both pilots are incapacitated for whatever reason, and nobody has access to the cockpit. it is difficult to even imagine the scenario in which conscious passengers who know that the cockpit crew is incapacitated/unconscious/dead, fly for hours with that knowledge without being able to do anything about it until the plane runs out of fuel, eventually plunging to their death. that's a horrible horrible thought.

maybe from now on they should have a pilot, co-pilot and another intern or 2nd year pilot as back-up sitting outside the cockpit. you don't have to pay them that much so it will be affordable.

yes it could happen, imagine if there is some kind of gas leak inside the closed cockpit or if the stewardess decided to add cyanide to their food and they both die, you know an Irene adler like creature working with moriarty-types. LTTE always liked cyanide. these things can happen, anything can happen.

by pravalika nanda Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:34 pm

Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:that indian canadian guy with the strikingly beautiful chinese wife is mohan kumaramangalam's grandson through his daughter. he is part tamil part bengali. the two handsome little boys are the ultimate mixed twenty first century kids. kumaranangalam was a minister in IG's cabinet and himself died in a plane crash. his daughter must be going through so much grief to lose a father and now son to plane crashes.

>>>Came across a white guy who said if the kids are left home, then he and his wife take different flights so that at least one of them will be there for the kids in case something happens. But if the kids also join then the whole family travels on the same flight.

my parents make my sis and me fly separately cuz they want someone to be there when they grow old I guess.

max, how are chindians 21st century? what about the people of Assam/Mizoram/Meghalaya and all those states? the upper class people from those states look very fair like this Chinese woman. Also quite a large percent of Tamil men in Malaysia are married to ethnic Asian men. And let's not forget Pico Iyer.

indian men need to grow a brain and stop being so fascinated by inter-racial marriages. my dad's cousin whom he doesn't speak to is married to a Filipina woman.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:44 pm

..Looks like MH 370 has been seein by these Islanders

The way Chinese accusing the Malaysians of not being transparent and Malaysia refusing to share raw data and the US not making many statements about MH 370 and the ONE place where it could land on MH 370 in the Indian Ocean belongs to America....something is not right somewhere..between the governments..

by pravalika nanda Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:54 pm

Rashmun wrote:An interesting analysis of what happened.

https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z13cv1gohsmbv5jmy221vrfyiz3vdhbop04

this is scary that it could be a fire and the transponders and everything are turned off but where is the plane? even if it were in the ocean, we would see some parts, some bodies...at any rate, it is a convincing theory. Unlike bw I do prefer the mech failure theory cuz it just means we need to be more thorough when inspecting planes prior to take-off but pilot suicides and hijacking I feel are less in our hands.

by pravalika nanda Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:59 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

..Looks like MH 370 has been seein by these Islanders

The way Chinese accusing the Malaysians of not being transparent and Malaysia refusing to share raw data and the US not making many statements about MH 370 and the ONE place where it could land on MH 370 in the Indian Ocean belongs to America....something is not right somewhere..between the governments..

the malays don't want to share raw data and they don't Interpol the FBI and China nosing about their business cuz there are several islands in the neighborhood which are disputed territories and also they want to protect their own security interests, who knows they may have radar to spy on china somewhere and if the Chinese find out they will make satay of them.

by harharmahadev Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:37 am

truthbetold wrote:
harharmahadev wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Hhm
there is a jamesbond movie "you only live twice".with a similar story. however the disappeared flying object is spacecraft. 200 people on board creates unusual problems even for Dr. evil.

In Zoolander, there was a ploy to kill the Malaysian Prime Minister. It didn't have anything to do with hijacking an airplane though.

didn't know about zoolander .

You must watch this cult classic movie. Will Smith (the villain) is a designer and he organizes a fashion show called Derelique, inspired by homeless people. He plans to get Ben Stiller to kill the Malaysian PM by using hypnosis techniques. You must watch it.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:33 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:if they have the last ping to the inmarsat satellite at 8.11 AM, they must have prior pings too. and if they plot the plausible circles of locations using the prior pings like they have for the last ping, they may be able to come up with a probable flight path or at least a few probable flight ptahs. are they doing that?

a wapo article asking the question i asked two days ago:

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/03/19/heres-whats-odd-about-that-map-of-mh370s-final-satellite-ping/

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:15 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:if they have the last ping to the inmarsat satellite at 8.11 AM, they must have prior pings too. and if they plot the plausible circles of locations using the prior pings like they have for the last ping, they may be able to come up with a probable flight path or at least a few probable flight ptahs. are they doing that?

a wapo article asking the question i asked two days ago:

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/03/19/heres-whats-odd-about-that-map-of-mh370s-final-satellite-ping/

So they have found something like debris 1500 miles SW of Perth...or so they say... Immediately Malaysian Govt and otehr govts show optimism...

Really? So the villagers and the brown people who saw a big jumbo fly over maldivian Atoll are fools ?

Questions:

1. Why would the pilot fly that far ? visit Antarctica ?

2. How long did it take to fly to that spot ?

3. How did it have so much fuel when the Malaysian Govt claimed it had filled only enough fuel to fly to Beijing - a 5 hour flight.

Guess no one ELSE can check or verify if what the anti-Chinese coalition says about this flight.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:24 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:if they have the last ping to the inmarsat satellite at 8.11 AM, they must have prior pings too. and if they plot the plausible circles of locations using the prior pings like they have for the last ping, they may be able to come up with a probable flight path or at least a few probable flight ptahs. are they doing that?

a wapo article asking the question i asked two days ago:

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/03/19/heres-whats-odd-about-that-map-of-mh370s-final-satellite-ping/

So they have found something like debris 1500 miles SW of Perth...or so they say... Immediately Malaysian Govt and otehr govts show optimism...

Really? So the villagers and the brown people who saw a big jumbo fly over maldivian Atoll are fools ?

Questions:

1. Why would the pilot fly that far ? visit Antarctica ?

2. How long did it take to fly to that spot ?

3. How did it have so much fuel when the Malaysian Govt claimed it had filled only enough fuel to fly to Beijing - a 5 hour flight.

Guess no one ELSE can check or verify if what the anti-Chinese coalition says about this flight.

Apparently, the plane had enough fuel to fly both ways (wasn't going to refuel in Beijing).

by southindian Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:48 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:if they have the last ping to the inmarsat satellite at 8.11 AM, they must have prior pings too. and if they plot the plausible circles of locations using the prior pings like they have for the last ping, they may be able to come up with a probable flight path or at least a few probable flight ptahs. are they doing that?

a wapo article asking the question i asked two days ago:

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/03/19/heres-whats-odd-about-that-map-of-mh370s-final-satellite-ping/

They had explained this on the radio 2 days ago. The satellite ping did not capture coordinates of source and only acknowledge presence of the signal coming from the plane. Much like, "I'm here". "OK"

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:01 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
So they have found something like debris 1500 miles SW of Perth...or so they say... Immediately Malaysian Govt and otehr govts show optimism...

Really? So the villagers and the brown people who saw a big jumbo fly over maldivian Atoll are fools ?

the maldivian villagers' claim is unsupported by their own radar data. there was a plane that flew over the island at the time the villagers mention, but it wasn't the 777. there was however a sighting by malaysian fishermen in the malacca strait at around the time the radar data show it had turned southwest. that is consistent with radar data and hence also credible. to my knowledge the malaysian fishermen's claim has not been discounted, only the maldivian guys.

Questions:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:1. Why would the pilot fly that far ? visit Antarctica ?

2. How long did it take to fly to that spot ?

1. my own speculation: at some point on the way to his intended landing strip at langkawi, he and the co-pilot were incapacitated and the communications got killed by the same fire and smoke that incapacitated the pilots. however, the fire burned out because of the quick action of the pilots. but once he set the heading it just kept going until it ran out of fuel and crashed to the ocean.

2. they have ping very close to that location at 8.11 AM on march 9th. so about 7.5 hours.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:3. How did it have so much fuel when the Malaysian Govt claimed it had filled only enough fuel to fly to Beijing - a 5 hour flight.

no in their very first press briefing malaysian airlines said it had about 8 hours of fuel.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:20 pm

southindian wrote:
They had explained this on the radio 2 days ago. The satellite ping did not capture coordinates of source and only acknowledge presence of the signal coming from the plane. Much like, "I'm here". "OK"

no there is more information than just an acknowledgment. from the time it takes for the signal roundtrip, they can calculate the distance from the satellite to the plane. with that info and the angle at which it impinges on the satellite, they can calculate using basic euclidean geometry the radius of the circle which is the locus of all the probable points the plane was located at 8.11 AM. think of a sphere (the earth) and a point located outside of it (the satellite). the distance calculated from the roundtrip is the hypotenuse of the right triangle formed by the line joining the last location of the plane and the satellite (the hypotenuse) and the line joining the satellite to the center of the circle of possible locations (one of the two legs of the rt triangle). the other leg of the rt triangle is the radius of the circle of possible locations. but they eliminated more than half of that circle because the plane did not have enough fuel to get to those points. that left the northern and southern arc.

my question following that information is in my original post which i repeat below:

if they have the last ping to the inmarsat satellite at 8.11 AM, they must have prior pings too. and if they plot the plausible circles of locations using the prior pings like they have for the last ping, they may be able to come up with a probable flight path or at least a few probable flight ptahs. are they doing that?

i was surprised to see wapo repeat the same question two days after my post.

in any case, in retrospect i think the investigators did use all that prior info and that's how they zeroed in on this southern indian ocean location.

edited to add: one additional piece of info they have is the initial known flight path. the turn southwest to the malacca strait before it went off radar.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:34 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

if they have the last ping to the inmarsat satellite at 8.11 AM, they must have prior pings too. and if they plot the plausible circles of locations using the prior pings like they have for the last ping, they may be able to come up with a probable flight path or at least a few probable flight ptahs. are they doing that?

i was surprised to see wapo repeat the same question two days after my post.

in any case, in retrospect i think the investigators did use all that prior info and that's how they zeroed in on this southern indian ocean location.

bingo!

malaysian airlines flight - Page 5 W-SEARCH20-G

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:33 pm

one minor correction to what i wrote, the angle of the signal is not known, nor is it necessary to plot the circles of plausible locations, just the distance.

and i have a minor nitpick with the wapo article. the circles of plausible locations at various times aren't quite concentric. in fact they lie on different planes. their centers lie on a straight line which passes through the center of the earth. what are concentric are their projections (also circles) on to a plane normal to this straight line.

yes i am a bit obsessed with this thing. fascinating. great geometry lessons that i can discuss with my seventh grader. i do feel terrible for the families though.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:22 pm

Kris wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Kris
Malaysia is at best accepting facts forced on it in a slow and unresponsive way. It strongly denied wsj article at first. Now pm says there was satellite pinging Upton 7 hours. Usa went public with some data. China openly asked for openness.
Malaysia exhibited typical semi autocratic govt reluctance to professionally deal with the issue.
But all the bungling aside, this is still an unresolved mystery after a week. Real life is more is more interesting than fiction.
here is a wild theory. Russians did it to divert or reduce attention on Crimea. They forced it from the top spot of news coverage. They have the necessary tools and knowledge.
>>>I think there is a high likelihood of on Islamic group connection, but let's wait to see how it unfolds.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/19/pilot-of-missing-jet-expressed-interest-in-democracy-and-atheism-on-social-networks/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

The discovery of the pilot’s social network accounts also led journalists, bloggers and amateur detectives to look for evidence in his posts that might help to piece together a portrait of the man who was at the controls of the missing jet. The picture that emerges, of a man interested in electronics and technology, but also Malaysia’s democratic opposition and discussions of atheism, is consistent with what Captain Zaharie’s friends told my colleague Kirk Semple, that he showed no signs of religious or political extremism that might have motivated a hijacking.

On YouTube, he uploaded five short clips, all offering tips about how to tune or repair electronic systems, like air-conditioners and ice makers. Among the dozens of videos shared by other users that he “liked” on the platform, most concerned software fixes, comedy or pop music, but four were interviews or documentaries in which prominent atheists explained their reasons for not following any religion. One of the clips tagged as a favorite by a man described by friends as a moderate Muslim was a television version of “The God Delusion,” a book by Richard Dawkins. Captain Zaharie also subscribed to the official YouTube channel of the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science. Another of his subscriptions was to the channel of Eddie Izzard, a British comedian who is an outspoken atheist himself.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:30 pm

hijack, terrorism etc. are now less probable if this debris is indeed the plane's:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-emergency-is-more-likely-scenario-for-flight-mh370-20140320-35620.html

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:38 pm

the payne stewart scenario:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_South_Dakota_Learjet_crash

by seven Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:59 pm

I think the Malaysian airline plane is on the moon.

by southindian Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:18 am

Max,

What are the latest updates about MH370?

by Maria S Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:14 am

The mystery continues..and I try to keep up. None of the what, where or why questions have been answered. In my very first comments (many days ago) said it exposes the glaring gaps in tech- when it comes to tracking commercial aircrafts, now professionals are openly admitting that.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/mysterious-malaysia-air-flight-370-highlights-flaws-in-aircraft-tracking/

When we are on line or flying seems like such a small world..but, events like these are reminders that even with all the hi-tech..that this is really a big planet!

I just hope the families find some relief soon- must be going through tough emotional roller-coasters..

by southindian Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:04 pm

After 10 days of missing plane this was the first instance when strangly enough, families/friends of passengers hoped that the plane was hijacked, instead of crashing in waters somewhere.

by harharmahadev Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:24 pm

southindian wrote:After 10 days of missing plane this was the first instance when strangly enough, families/friends of passengers hoped that the plane was hijacked, instead of crashing in waters somewhere.

The airlines should tell the relatives that the plane crashed in a remote island and now the passengers and cannibalizing each other for survival. When the relatives are totally in shock, they should say, "I'm just kidding. The plane crashed in the middle of the ocean and they are all dead!"

by FluteHolder Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:41 pm

====
What's the very latest?
The search in the southern Indian Ocean is over for the day, and nothing was found. The CEO of Malaysia Airlines confirmed that the plane was carrying lithium-ion batteries. And authorities said they're aware of a news report that the plane's pilot placed a cell phone call shortly before the flight departed.

What's the significance of the phone call?
There may not be any, but in a mystery as big as this one, investigators will check out any lead to see if it's important.
=======

Above is from CNN.

Why they have not investigated about the phone call pilot made before departure?

It is highly unbelievable that US/West do not know about this aircraft till now. I would suspect they might have seen the rogue/hijacked plane thru their 'spying/technology' and it might have headed towards any locations which might be west/hostile to Islam and they might have shot down the plane without any evidence. 2 weeks might be enough for the ashes to disappear in the ocean (if any).

Remember, these guys placed the 'WMD' theory and waged a war over it.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:03 pm

I am convinced - until proven with material evidence - the governments are all in together on this mysterious flight. They did something - stupid, idiotic, whatever - and have come up with a fantastic way to hide all their "deeds" disappeared in the Antarctic circle in the INdian/pacific/Atlantic Ocean.

From now, any "incovenient" plane/people will disapepar into the deep oceans of the Southern Hemisphere.

by seven Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:30 pm

Ok my new theory.
This was a hijack.
There was someone on the plane who had something that hijackers wanted.
They got it.
Landed the plane on water.
Their friends were already there to receive them.
Either on boat of helicopter.
So hijackers escaped.
Everyone else drowned.
The plane is at the bottom of Indian Ocean.

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:47 pm

seven wrote:Ok my new theory.
This was a hijack.
There was someone on the plane who had something that hijackers wanted.
They got it.
Landed the plane on water.
Their friends were already there to receive them.
Either on boat of helicopter.
So hijackers escaped.
Everyone else drowned.
The plane is at the bottom of Indian Ocean.

sorry, bilkul bhi hasi nahi aayi. is joke par bhi or woh moon waale joke par bhi.

by seven Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:12 pm

Tracy Whitney wrote:
seven wrote:Ok my new theory.
This was a hijack.
There was someone on the plane who had something that hijackers wanted.
They got it.
Landed the plane on water.
Their friends were already there to receive them.
Either on boat of helicopter.
So hijackers escaped.
Everyone else drowned.
The plane is at the bottom of Indian Ocean.

sorry, bilkul bhi hasi nahi aayi. is joke par bhi or woh moon waale joke par bhi.

Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to make anyone laugh. If you wanna laugh, why not start another parle g thread.

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:16 pm

seven wrote:
Tracy Whitney wrote:
seven wrote:Ok my new theory.
This was a hijack.
There was someone on the plane who had something that hijackers wanted.
They got it.
Landed the plane on water.
Their friends were already there to receive them.
Either on boat of helicopter.
So hijackers escaped.
Everyone else drowned.
The plane is at the bottom of Indian Ocean.

sorry, bilkul bhi hasi nahi aayi. is joke par bhi or woh moon waale joke par bhi.

Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to make anyone laugh. If you wanna laugh, why not start another parle g thread.

so wait, these were your serious theories?

by seven Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:28 pm

It's interesting that of all the people I talk to, 50% think plane drowned and everyone died and 50% believe they are alive and stranded somewhere.
I am losing hope with every passing day. I feel they are not alive. Families will surely need to know what happened to get some closure. But I feel we'll never find out what happened to flight MH370.

by MaxEntropy_Man Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:53 pm

i met someone today whose high school classmate was on the plane.

by Maria S Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:30 am

What a way for the Malaysian Govt. to end the search, and inform the families...sent them "text messages"..good going there.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/24/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

*I understand the urgency to give some relief for the anguished families. Sure, it's "likely" (anyone can assume that).. so much for "hard scientific evidence" and solving aviation mysteries in 2014.

by Impedimenta Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:13 am

Maria S wrote:What a way for the Malaysian Govt. to end the search, and inform the families...sent them "text messages"..good going there.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/24/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

*I understand the urgency to give some relief for the anguished families. Sure, it's "likely" (anyone can assume that).. so much for "hard scientific evidence" and solving aviation mysteries in 2014.

well, not sure if *I* would personally want a call to hear this news about my family Sad

Nevertheless, in such a situation, where there are more questions than answers, how can the families expect to get closure of any kind? I really pray that they do have some relief in terms of closure so they can finally come to terms with the tragic news. I cannot imagine the grief. I thought the below link was a reasonable explanation

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

by harharmahadev Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:15 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i met someone today whose high school classmate was on the plane.

You should let him know that it's quite possible that his friend is dead. If he breaks down in tears, give him a shawl and a $100 gift card from Expedia.

by Impedimenta Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:19 am

harharmahadev wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i met someone today whose high school classmate was on the plane.

You should let him know that it's quite possible that his friend is dead. If he breaks down in tears, give him a shawl and a $100 gift card from Expedia.

, that is cold

by harharmahadev Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:27 am

Impedimenta wrote:
harharmahadev wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i met someone today whose high school classmate was on the plane.

You should let him know that it's quite possible that his friend is dead. If he breaks down in tears, give him a shawl and a $100 gift card from Expedia.

, that is cold

Looks like you need a shawl and gift card too.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:30 am

Reminds me of the Indian cops hoisting multiple pending cases on a fake accused.

So anyone can blame anything on the so-called ocean plunging of MH 370

by Guest Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:40 pm

The li'l hope that they could be alive somewhere is gone. SighO! Sad

by indophile Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:54 pm

Now, is there a logical explanation for a suicidal pilot intentionally taking a left turn to nowhere, and taking some 250 people with him? He could have just killed himself in the comfort of his home for gods sake.

If that's not scary enough, the scarier thing is - something being wrong with the plane. Who knows if these 777s are acting like those Toyotas accelerating by themselves. And they are flying them all over the world.

by Rekz Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:07 pm

R.I.P MH 370

Sad

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:27 pm

indophile wrote:Now, is there a logical explanation for a suicidal pilot intentionally taking a left turn to nowhere, and taking some 250 people with him? He could have just killed himself in the comfort of his home for gods sake.

If that's not scary enough, the scarier thing is - something being wrong with the plane. Who knows if these 777s are acting like those Toyotas accelerating by themselves. And they are flying them all over the world.

That was Audi 5000

Just saying.

by harharmahadev Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:36 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
indophile wrote:Now, is there a logical explanation for a suicidal pilot intentionally taking a left turn to nowhere, and taking some 250 people with him? He could have just killed himself in the comfort of his home for gods sake.

If that's not scary enough, the scarier thing is - something being wrong with the plane. Who knows if these 777s are acting like those Toyotas accelerating by themselves. And they are flying them all over the world.

That was Audi 5000

Just saying.

Even Toyota had that problem. Recently, they paid $1.2 billion to close that issue.

by indophile Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:37 pm

Yeah, Audi 5000. But Toyota too. They paid big money just recently.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-unintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:20 pm

***If you sit at a train station and you listen to the train whistle -- the pitch of the whistle changes as it moves past. That's exactly what we have," explained CNN Meteorologist Chad Myers, who has studied Doppler technology. "It's the Doppler effect that they're using on this ping or handshake back from the airplane. They know by nanoseconds whether that signal was compressed a little -- or expanded -- by whether the plane was moving closer or away from 64.5 degrees -- which is the latitude of the orbiting satellite."

Each ping was analyzed for its direction of travel, Myers said. The new calculations, McLaughlin said, underwent a peer review process with space agency experts and contributions by Boeing.
****

MAX was right when he suggested and wondered by the plane path could be tracked using trignometry and signal bounce.

That is exactly what has been done here.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:33 pm

i think this brit satellite company has gone beyond the analysis i suggested. on top of what i suggested they've added data from the doppler effect. that helped them eliminate the northern arc. very clever. not much comfort to the families and naturally they're not going to believe it until hard evidence is produced, but i have no doubt those objects the satellites and search airplanes are picking up are wreckage from MH 370.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:51 pm

based on everything we know electrical/mechanical issue followed by pilot(s)' incapacitation followed plane being flown by autopilot until fuel reserves were exhausted seems like the most likely scenario. looks like their attempt to save the plane from whatever the problem was succeeded, but they got incapacitated in the process. i only hope nobody was alive or at least conscious when the plane eventually plunged into the ocean.

by nevada Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:19 pm

Guardian says it was likely a suicide mission:

Flight MH370 crashed into the Indian Ocean in an apparent suicide mission, well-placed sources revealed have revealed, as Malaysia's prime minister announced that everyone on the missing aircraft had died.
The team investigating the Boeing 777’s disappearance believe no malfunction or fire was capable of causing the aircraft’s unusual flight or the disabling of its communications system before it veered wildly off course on a seven-hour silent flight into the sea. An analysis of the flight’s routing, signalling and communications shows that it was flown “in a rational way”.

Full Story here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10720237/Malaysia-Airlines-crash-Suicide-mission-theory-of-MH370-investigators.html

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:26 pm

nevada wrote:Guardian says it was likely a suicide mission:

Flight MH370 crashed into the Indian Ocean in an apparent suicide mission, well-placed sources revealed have revealed, as Malaysia's prime minister announced that everyone on the missing aircraft had died.
The team investigating the Boeing 777’s disappearance believe no malfunction or fire was capable of causing the aircraft’s unusual flight or the disabling of its communications system before it veered wildly off course on a seven-hour silent flight into the sea. An analysis of the flight’s routing, signalling and communications shows that it was flown “in a rational way”.

Full Story here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10720237/Malaysia-Airlines-crash-Suicide-mission-theory-of-MH370-investigators.html

don't believe it. makes for good copy and sells newspapers, but if we ever recover the FDR it is going to turn out to be something more mundane. i know as humans we are fascinated by the unusual and the macabre, but i have a strong sense that this is not terrorism, hijacking, or a suicide mission, but an unusual technical problem. if anyone wanted to commit suicide why wait six hours and rely on the autopilot? why not just point the nose down and go for it?

on another note, i am disgusted by CNN's close captioning the passengers' grief. i don't remember them doing that with the air france crash, the newtown or arora shootings or any other tragedy. they interviewed the suspects but didn't stick a camera into their faces when they were bawling. there is definitely some double standards at play here. chinese grief ok to show on TV, american soldiers in bodybags or parents of little babies who died in connecticut, not so much.

whatever caused the problems, if it took out the communication systems could also explain why the pilots didn't communicate. it's not they didn't communicate, but couldn't despite trying. also they were in a transition zone between two frequencies. if the emergency came on suddenly they could have been preoccupied dealing with the situation that presented itself and couldn't go back to the older frequency (malaysian) in time and the new frequency they had been given (vietnamese air traffic controllers) had not yet been entered into the communication system. there are any number of perfectly rational explanations available before going to a suicide mission.

by Propagandhi711 Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:02 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:based on everything we know electrical/mechanical issue followed by pilot(s)' incapacitation followed plane being flown by autopilot until fuel reserves were exhausted seems like the most likely scenario. looks like their attempt to save the plane from whatever the problem was succeeded, but they got incapacitated in the process. i only hope nobody was alive or at least conscious when the plane eventually plunged into the ocean.

why wouldnt anyone communicate with the outside world, assuming non terrestrial internet access is available onboard (no reason why it wouldnt be) even if the traditional forms of communication failed?

by southindian Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:27 am

It was the doppler shift that helped track position of the plane, and not coordinates from the plane as indicated by some.

The doppler shift from a geostationary satellite helped track the plane.

CNN says so...

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:51 am

southindian wrote:It was the doppler shift that helped track position of the plane, and not coordinates from the plane as indicated by some.

The doppler shift from a geostationary satellite helped track the plane.

CNN says so...

that's not exactly accurate. the pings and the time for the roundtrip of the signal combined with euclidean geometry gave the circles that they were showing earlier. they eliminated half of it based on fuel considerations. that left the northern and southern arcs. analysis of the doppler shifts helped further to eliminate the northern arc. if the plane was traveling in the northern direction (getting closer to the satellite's position) the frequency would have shifted to higher values in each successive ping (before it finally got lower after passing the satellite and heading further north). the fact that the frequency values were shifted lower and got lower still with each progressive ping indicated that the plane was in fact traveling away from the satellite, i.e. the southern direction all along. at no point was it flying closer to the satellite.

tracking the final position of the plane required further assumptions about altitude, speed of flying when on autopilot, wind speeds, and total fuel volume.

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