malaysian airlines flight

Maria S wrote:The depth of the problem..an amazing illustration:


http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/world/the-depth-of-the-problem/931/



Ah..the lines of romantics who talk and write about going to the depths of the oceans, for true love:) And philosophers..with nuances or simply call it as they see it..


We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

~John F. Kennedy

The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever.

~Jacques Yves Cousteau

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/sea.html#MpAjQku4Fbps2jyC.99

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:What is the pressure at the bottom of an ocean - say approx 5,000 m?

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:What is the pressure at the bottom of an ocean - say approx 5,000 m?

Although I did not varify the calculation, here the pressure (according to the Internet) at about 5000 m or 15000 ft depth in the ocean is 47.4 MPa
(https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090302093716AAbH2At)

Note, the atmospheric pressure or 1 atm (14.7 psi) is 101 kPa or about 0.1 MPa.

harharmahadev wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:What is the pressure at the bottom of an ocean - say approx 5,000 m?

Although I did not varify the calculation, here the pressure (according to the Internet) at about 5000 m or 15000 ft depth in the ocean is 47.4 MPa
(https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090302093716AAbH2At)

Note, the atmospheric pressure or 1 atm (14.7 psi) is 101 kPa or about 0.1 MPa.

I read that one of the passengers had fully recovered from cancer and was on a celebratory vacation.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

harharmahadev wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:What is the pressure at the bottom of an ocean - say approx 5,000 m?

Although I did not varify the calculation, here the pressure (according to the Internet) at about 5000 m or 15000 ft depth in the ocean is 47.4 MPa
(https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090302093716AAbH2At)

Note, the atmospheric pressure or 1 atm (14.7 psi) is 101 kPa or about 0.1 MPa.

I read that one of the passengers had fully recovered from cancer and was on a celebratory vacation.

Poor guy ... what the cancer couldn't do (kill him), the celebratory vacation did.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:they heard a transmission which they think might be from the pingers over the weekend, but can't hear it any more. there could be a variety of reasons -- battery death, silt covering the pingers, who knows...

anyway, here is a strategy that occurs to me:

if you imagine the pinger as a point source, it's going to send out a signal which is detectable so long as the pinger locator is within a cone whose vertex is centered at the pinger. now having detected the pinger at a certain location, they could draw out an area on the floor of the ocean where the vertex of that cone could be located, in other words the probable search area. now overaly on that area, the arcs that the inmarsat folks came up with a couple of weeks ago. now you have a narrower search area. wonder whether they are using a strategy like that. they should use the pinger data in conjuction with the calculation that the inmarsat guys did. have they forgotten about that?

There seems to be another question about the latest findings, which indicate the frequencies for the recorded signal / pings for MH370 at about 33 kHz.

However, according to the original information (including from the builder of the "black" box for this plane) the standard frequency of pings (signal) emitted by the black-box should be 37.5 kHz.

This discrepancy in frequency (from 37.5 kHz to 33 kHz) in the received signal is being explained as due to the enormous water pressure on the blackbox in which the pinger is located, assuming that the plane (MH370) containing the blackbox is sitting at the bottom of the ocean.

It is assumed that the pressure has changed the capacitance of the pinger and that led to a reduction in the frequency.

Considering the blackbox that houses the pinger and its capacitor etc. is designed to withstand the enormous water pressure (including deep in the ocean) and it seems to be holding its form structurally as demonstrated by the pings received currently, how is it possible for the pinger and its capacitor to feel the enormous pressure inside the undeformed  (structurally sound) blackbox to undergo a change in its capacitance leading to an approximately 10% reduction (change) in frequency (from 37.5 kHz to 33 kHz)?

Seva Lamberdar wrote:"the structure may have gotten damaged allowing some transmission of hydrostatic pressure to the pinger." .. Max

>>> IMO, any damage or distortion of the structural casing due to enormous water pressure is more likely to make the inside pinger incapable of generating a signal at any frequency, instead of having the capacitance changed and generate a signal at a lower frequency.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:"the structure may have gotten damaged allowing some transmission of hydrostatic pressure to the pinger." .. Max

>>> IMO, any damage or distortion of the structural casing due to enormous water pressure is more likely to make the inside pinger incapable of generating a signal at any frequency, instead of having the capacitance changed and generate a signal at a lower frequency.

ok. i have no idea how this technology works.

harharmahadev wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:"the structure may have gotten damaged allowing some transmission of hydrostatic pressure to the pinger." .. Max

>>> IMO, any damage or distortion of the structural casing due to enormous water pressure is more likely to make the inside pinger incapable of generating a signal at any frequency, instead of having the capacitance changed and generate a signal at a lower frequency.

ok. i have no idea how this technology works.

In that case, you need to learn how to make shit up that sounds believable.

southindian wrote:

harharmahadev wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:"the structure may have gotten damaged allowing some transmission of hydrostatic pressure to the pinger." .. Max

>>> IMO, any damage or distortion of the structural casing due to enormous water pressure is more likely to make the inside pinger incapable of generating a signal at any frequency, instead of having the capacitance changed and generate a signal at a lower frequency.

ok. i have no idea how this technology works.

In that case, you need to learn how to make shit up that sounds believable.

No. You don't have to make up anything.

Just google ....as every smart alec here does.

Do you think in the 80s our parents ever were aviation experts, food experts, science experts, school experts, politics experts and expert on every other thing on the planet?

Thanks to google we all are...

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:What is the pressure at the bottom of an ocean - say approx 5,000 m?

Although I did not varify the calculation, here the pressure (according to the Internet) at about 5000 m or 15000 ft depth in the ocean is 47.4 MPa
(https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090302093716AAbH2At)

Note, the atmospheric pressure or 1 atm (14.7 psi) is 101 kPa or about 0.1 MPa.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:What is the pressure at the bottom of an ocean - say approx 5,000 m?

Although I did not varify the calculation, here the pressure (according to the Internet) at about 5000 m or 15000 ft depth in the ocean is 47.4 MPa
(https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090302093716AAbH2At)

Note, the atmospheric pressure or 1 atm (14.7 psi) is 101 kPa or about 0.1 MPa.

>>> Someone should check out the above figure  47.4 MPa, pressure at 1500 ft depth. It may not be right (perhaps off by a factor of 10, on the higher side).

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:What is the pressure at the bottom of an ocean - say approx 5,000 m?

Although I did not varify the calculation, here the pressure (according to the Internet) at about 5000 m or 15000 ft depth in the ocean is 47.4 MPa
(https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090302093716AAbH2At)

Note, the atmospheric pressure or 1 atm (14.7 psi) is 101 kPa or about 0.1 MPa.

>>> Someone should check out the above figure  47.4 MPa, pressure at 1500 ft depth. It may not be right (perhaps off by a factor of 10, on the higher side).

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:What is the pressure at the bottom of an ocean - say approx 5,000 m?

Although I did not varify the calculation, here the pressure (according to the Internet) at about 5000 m or 15000 ft depth in the ocean is 47.4 MPa
(https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090302093716AAbH2At)

Note, the atmospheric pressure or 1 atm (14.7 psi) is 101 kPa or about 0.1 MPa.

>>> Someone should check out the above figure  47.4 MPa, pressure at 1500 ft depth. It may not be right (perhaps off by a factor of 10, on the higher side).

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:What is the pressure at the bottom of an ocean - say approx 5,000 m?

Although I did not varify the calculation, here the pressure (according to the Internet) at about 5000 m or 15000 ft depth in the ocean is 47.4 MPa
(https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090302093716AAbH2At)

Note, the atmospheric pressure or 1 atm (14.7 psi) is 101 kPa or about 0.1 MPa.

>>> Someone should check out the above figure  47.4 MPa, pressure at 1500 ft depth. It may not be right (perhaps off by a factor of 10, on the higher side).

assume g = 10 m/s^2, density of water = 1000 kg/m^3 and you get pressure @ 5000 m= 5000 (m)*1000 (kg/m^3)*10(m/s^2) = 5*10^7 Pa = 5*10^4 kPa. assuming atmospheric pressure is ~ 100 kPa, that gives you a pressure of 500 atm or about 50 MPa.

i may be off a bit because of the approximate numbers for g and atm pressure and the fact that i haven't gone looking for the actual density of sea water.

harharmahadev wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:What is the pressure at the bottom of an ocean - say approx 5,000 m?

Although I did not varify the calculation, here the pressure (according to the Internet) at about 5000 m or 15000 ft depth in the ocean is 47.4 MPa
(https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090302093716AAbH2At)

Note, the atmospheric pressure or 1 atm (14.7 psi) is 101 kPa or about 0.1 MPa.

>>> Someone should check out the above figure  47.4 MPa, pressure at 1500 ft depth. It may not be right (perhaps off by a factor of 10, on the higher side).

assume g = 10 m/s^2, density of water = 1000 kg/m^3 and you get pressure @ 5000 m= 5000 (m)*1000 (kg/m^3)*10(m/s^2) = 5*10^7 Pa = 5*10^4 kPa. assuming atmospheric pressure is ~ 100 kPa, that gives you a pressure of 500 atm or about 50 MPa.

i may be off a bit because of the approximate numbers for g and atm pressure and the fact that i haven't gone looking for the actual density of sea water.

Don't stress out over it.  It's not going to help with the search.

Maria S wrote:The depth of the problem..an amazing illustration:


http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/world/the-depth-of-the-problem/931/



Ah..the lines of romantics who talk and write about going to the depths of the oceans, for true love:) And philosophers..with nuances or simply call it as they see it..


We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

~John F. Kennedy

The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever.

~Jacques Yves Cousteau

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/sea.html#MpAjQku4Fbps2jyC.99

southindian wrote:If the plane sank in one piece then the pressure after a certain depth must have crushed everything inside and did not allow anything escape out of plane's body.*

There's no debris floating anywhere from the plane.

* my wild-wild guess

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

harharmahadev wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Although I did not varify the calculation, here the pressure (according to the Internet) at about 5000 m or 15000 ft depth in the ocean is 47.4 MPa
(https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090302093716AAbH2At)

Note, the atmospheric pressure or 1 atm (14.7 psi) is 101 kPa or about 0.1 MPa.

>>> Someone should check out the above figure  47.4 MPa, pressure at 1500 ft depth. It may not be right (perhaps off by a factor of 10, on the higher side).

assume g = 10 m/s^2, density of water = 1000 kg/m^3 and you get pressure @ 5000 m= 5000 (m)*1000 (kg/m^3)*10(m/s^2) = 5*10^7 Pa = 5*10^4 kPa. assuming atmospheric pressure is ~ 100 kPa, that gives you a pressure of 500 atm or about 50 MPa.

i may be off a bit because of the approximate numbers for g and atm pressure and the fact that i haven't gone looking for the actual density of sea water.

Don't stress out over it.  It's not going to help with the search.

you try too hard at being funny. forget it. some people just don't have the funny gene. you don't.

seven wrote:

southindian wrote:If the plane sank in one piece then the pressure after a certain depth must have crushed everything inside and did not allow anything escape out of plane's body.*

There's no debris floating anywhere from the plane.

* my wild-wild guess

wont that destroy the black box too ? i wonder how strong is this thing and made to withstand what kinda pressure.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:now they are on to some underwater sound recrodings. watch this video: http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/03/world/asia/malayisa-airlines-flight-370-search/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

at about 1.53 or so they are showing the likely location where this sound emanated from. that puts the location close to the maldives where a bunch of fishermen reported a low flying plane. the aussies had dismissed that claim early on because it was not in line with the inmarsat calculations.  they didn't even want to take a look back then.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:now they are on to some underwater sound recrodings. watch this video: http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/03/world/asia/malayisa-airlines-flight-370-search/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

at about 1.53 or so they are showing the likely location where this sound emanated from. that puts the location close to the maldives where a bunch of fishermen reported a low flying plane. the aussies had dismissed that claim early on because it was not in line with the inmarsat calculations.  they didn't even want to take a look back then.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:now they are on to some underwater sound recrodings. watch this video: http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/03/world/asia/malayisa-airlines-flight-370-search/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

at about 1.53 or so they are showing the likely location where this sound emanated from. that puts the location close to the maldives where a bunch of fishermen reported a low flying plane. the aussies had dismissed that claim early on because it was not in line with the inmarsat calculations.  they didn't even want to take a look back then.

Could not dig up my post. I posted the sightings by Maldivians and suggested the plane, maldivian islands, and US military in Diego Garcia are somehow may be connected - given the utter public silence of the US govt. I said it might be sitting on the tarmac on Diego garcia.

You replied immediately that malaysian govt and the Maldivian govt had already stated it was some other plane....and shot down my theory.

Let us stay tuned.